Mitsu vs. _____

i greatly appreciate your feedback, but unfortunately i am insufficiently familiar with ivy at this time to know what you are talking about with her stances. i guess i will have to further investigate her a bit.

now that i think about it, the difficulties i have with ivy are the same as the difficulties i have with kilik and with, to a much lesser degree, astaroth. my opponent seems to always be able to keep me at range.

and i am still largely getting destroyed by kilik's 4k+b. i am getting better at blocking it, but although i have been told it can be stepped i am rarely able to do so.
 
If that's the case, then you should go over her movelist, then. Basic knowledge alone will go a long way against many characters.
 
smilingsaint, i'll try to give a quick description of her stances.

Dullyanna said:
Also, stay the hell out of close range when she's in SW stance.
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this stance is when her sword is shortened, and looks like a normal sword. Ivy wants to be up close to you in this stance. She also has CS throw in this stance, which is an A break.

Dullyanna said:
If she's in CL, try to stay defensive and out of throw range. She has very few lows in that stance, but she still has throws, and some strong mids like A+B AA and 214BB.
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this stance is when her sword is coiled, or in a circle. This is a pretty all-purpose stance, so as Mitsu, who excels at mid-close range, you might wanna just be up in her face. watch out for 214B!

Dullyanna said:
I believe most of her good step killers in WP are high, so try to bait them. Also, be very careful at long range, since she can quickly whack you with those GB stabs from an absurd distance.
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this stance is when her sword is fully extended, like a whip. Ivy usually spaces out in this stance, because the moves are somewhat slow. She also has SS throw in this stance, which is a B break.


also, there's SE stance, where she has her sword wrapped around her. watch her shoulders for a hint against this stance's 4 main options:
  • the B attacks, all mid. Ivy's shoulder flashes blue right before.
  • the A sweeping low. Ivy's shoulder flashes red right before.
  • the high horizontal UB. You'll notice the fiery UB animation, it'll give you enough time to duck.
  • the K tackle. this is used to prevent you from using interrupters.

get used to her movelist, and often used moves, and you'll have an easier time dealing with her.
 
i am having a hard time closing with opponents who work hard to keep me at long range like kilik or ivy. i would appreciate any advice on this. i am not good enough to reliably GI my way in and so far i have been using k,b (the flipping 2 hit attack thing) to limited success.

for some odd reason k,b doesnt clear astaroth's ground sweeps either... that part baffles me.

any advice would be appreciated.
 
smilingsaint said:
i am having a hard time closing with opponents who work hard to keep me at long range like kilik or ivy. i would appreciate any advice on this. i am not good enough to reliably GI my way in and so far i have been using k,b (the flipping 2 hit attack thing) to limited success.
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at range, mitsu has only a handful of options. they are:
  • 8WR A+B - safe, guaranteed 33B on hit... but linear. good thing it has a cancel for mixups!
  • A+K - GIs high and mid horizontals, decent dmg... but it's -16 and it forces crouch, which could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on if the opponent has a good FC/WR punisher (ex. sets' umbrella)
  • b:A - somewhat fast move (i20), 50 dmg, and it's safe at range... but it's -18, so don't use it up close!
  • 66BB - pretty fast, TCs, 49 dmg into oki... but it's -19, linear, and GIable in between hits on block.
  • 22_88A+K - deceptively fast, stuns on hit... my only gripe with this is that it's a high.
  • MST A - deceptive range, KDs on hit... but it's a high.
  • 7_8_9A+B - stuns on hit, safe, and forces crouch on block... but it's highly situational (ex. jumping Rock/Astaroth A+B), highly steppable, and only for the highly desperate.


smilingsaint said:
for some odd reason k,b doesnt clear astaroth's ground sweeps either... that part baffles me.
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kB/k:B doesn't have an auto-TJ... it tech jumps really late into the animation. 66_33_99K is also unreliable because it also doesn't tech jump immediately.

you're better off stepping/GIing the B or jumping the As w/ 7_8_9G if to get up close.
 
dear voldo,

die! die! die!

wow, does he seem strong! he nukes my soul gauge and does more damage and has higher priority than mitsu! and he seems to have a better mix up game.

i realize that my perspective may be skewed a bit, in fact it probably is, but damn! unfortunately, i suspect that there are not any practical tips for beating voldo.

every time mitsurugi loses, Dick Cheney kills a kitten!
 
Mitsu vs Cassandra

How do you win this? You can't dance in and out of her range trying to bait 6A+B because of her 6B (stab move), you can't get close enough for 2KB or 3A or 2A thanks to angel stepping and her 1K, you can't stay out of range because angel step eats range for breakfast. The middle range and relic/mist stances are the only way to damage her and the options here are limited because of the tech duck/jump/side step that so many of her moves do.

Is there a proper way to fight her? The best I can usually manage is getting 3/4 hp gone before being combo'ed to death and that is with things that keep her on her back. The only times I win are when I ring her out (A+G/CH 11_77BA/MST A+G/CH RLC A).
 
smilingsaint: As for closing in, part of long-ranged characters strategy is using range/pushback of the moves to land a CH when you are trying to run in for a mixup. You have to consider atacking with a long range move aiming for CH if they try to follow up one blocked move with another. Most basic are kB and 1A. Another strategy is moving around to bait a wiff. Genver has pointed out a number of long ranged moves, however depending on how your opponent punishes those you may better not use it.

As for Voldo indeed this character is very strong, 2KB is a pretty good option against BS, negating him most defencive mixups such as BS 2A or BS A+B. After this its up to how you guess his next move - SS or GI.

Wiley: I strongly disagree. Though mitsu generally is a weaker character than cassandra, it's not a bad matchup at all. Try timing your atacks differently and look for a workarounds in practice mode.
 
amy. amy is very hard for me to beat, to a certain degree so is X. but wow, amy is a beast. as i get up she does some kind of back flip over me business, she seems to be able to cancel her crazy spin the sword in my face moves into a low crumple stun stab thing, and mostly she is fast like greased lightning. if i can manage to put her in a nice range sweet spot then i can do ok, but otherwise i tend to get murdered.

any help would be greatly appreciated
 
Well, for her crazy spin stuff in wake-up game, what you can do is wait otg to see what's coming. If it's the UB, just roll and try to punish here. Otherwise, I believe it's either a weird jump kick that does the same amount of dmg, or a weak low A that hits otg.
I still think Mitsu's got his chances in this match-up. He's gonna have some problems because of Amy's quickness and steps. But Amy has pretty bad range, so if the Mitsu can keep her at mid-range, he should be all right. You can also step her a lot (although it's gonna be hard with Mitsu...).

I don't see the problem against X though, seems to me a pretty even match-up.
 
It is a bit unpleasant for mitsu if Yoshi can execute iMCF well,b/c it forces to change some mixups, I've never played a Yoshi who's been able to do it right,so right now I think its advantageous for mitsu
 
Any tips against Amy?

So far I can tell

33B is steppable to the left, very hard to SS to the right.
66A+B, 3B , 2B+K are steppable to the right, 2B+K tracks a little to the left, 3B and 66A+B track quite well to the left.
6BB is not really steppable unless you have an advantage. It seems its steppable both ways then.
66B is steppable to the right (confirm?)
66A i stepped to the right, but not easy to do.

autoGI moves tracking sides?

punishment list: (amy move = mitsu punishment move)

4A = BB
1A = 4KB

6BBB = 6K
3B = K_2A

WS K = K

A+K,A = WS K
2B+K = FC 1B

44B = BB
44AB = 2A

236A = 4KB_k:B
236BBB = 6K
236 KK = WS B

Can her auto GI (B+K, K for ex) be re-GI'ed?

How do you deal with her wake up game. to me it seems nearly impossible to get a decent risk reward anywhere and even worse I sometimes spend whole round otg.what are good rolling patterns to avoid wakeups, for ex, if I get hit by 2B+K otg is there an opportunity to get into safe range?

Any general advice? to me amy seems very hard to beat but i cant see why. its generally 50/50 for both and yet...
 
Belial said:
33B is steppable to the left, very hard to SS to the right.
3B and 66A+B track quite well to the left.
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at range, i usually step left to avoid the greater of two evils (33B). up close, if i'm not getting a bunch of attacks in my face, i'm usually trying to step right.

Belial said:
66B is steppable to the right (confirm?)
66A i stepped to the right, but not easy to do.
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66B is steppable both ways, although 6:6B has a bigger hitbox and is kinda harder to step.

66A has great tracking, i've had this hit me while i was behind amy when she's in the jumping motion. if you see this early, you can 6B+K under the jump lol

Belial said:
autoGI moves tracking sides?
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B+K tracks well, i've had this GI my stuff when i was behind her. i'm not sure about A+B, but B+K could probably have 100% tracking?

Belial said:
Can her auto GI (B+K, K for ex) be re-GI'ed?
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you can only re-JI her aGIs.

Belial said:
How do you deal with her wake up game. to me it seems nearly impossible to get a decent risk reward anywhere and even worse I sometimes spend whole round otg.what are good rolling patterns to avoid wakeups, for ex, if I get hit by 2B+K otg is there an opportunity to get into safe range?
Click to expand...

i usually roll left to avoid a 33B otg, but if you get hit with 2B+K otg, you're pretty safe to tech backwards unless they run after you and start over. a couple of other safe spots to tech for me is after 3BA (otg 3B hit w/ A whiffing) and 66A+B.

i generally try to be as patient as possible after a KD, so i end up taking a couple of grounded hits until i get pushed back enough to tech safely. (i don't know any other way! she's too good! lol)

Belial said:
Any general advice? to me amy seems very hard to beat but i cant see why. its generally 50/50 for both and yet...
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since she's leagues faster than mitsu, i'm forced to be more CH-fishy with 3A and b6. i backstep/step G/22_88A a little bit more with okay results as well.


maybe someone else can chime in with more anti-amy?
 
I did some my research and a lot of practice ever since. I came to a conclusion this is a favorable match-up for mitsurugi.

after 2B+K otg hit you're in a huge groundstun. oki-wise the situation is the same as after 236KK juggle ender, except you have to dash a little bit.

2B+K will track both sides otg. the only way to avoid it is backroll, which, however will fall to other wakeups.
Generally you cannot avoid run-up mixup by rolling otg. it becomes possible if you're hit otg with 33B once, from there you can get up and block 33B (guaranteed otherwise, will wiff with grounded and left roll on tip range = happens very rare) or backroll vs 2B+K, or sideroll against 3B or other slower moves but its a little hard to guess. each wake up gives 14 dmg and resets an oki game.

Most lame amys just dont utilize her absurd oki game enough. with a little research put into this she can be far more deadly.
 
Mitsu Matchups Ranking Project

Mitsu vs

Amy 6:4

Asta 4:6

Voldo 7:3

Yoshi 5:5

Unfortunately I still have got no time to answer to saitoh about my thought on mitsu vs asta matchup.
I am also not sure about voldo, maybe its 6:4 (i think not, but everybody else thinks its unfavorable so...)
I will proabably elaborate when I get the chance.

Discuss, opinions, please.
 
Mitsu Matchups Ranking Project

I would add:
Mitsu 4 - 6 Sophie
Mitsu 7 - 3 Mina
Mitsu 7 - 3 Rock
Mitsu 6 - 4 Night

I agree on Asta, although I may have discovered some tricks that would balance it out but I have to test them in real vs.

I'd like some explanation on Amy, Voldo and Yoshi please.
 
Mitsu Matchups Ranking Project

I base my opinion on two things.
1 - characters strengths and weaknessess.
2 - gameplay experience

Mitsu strenghts:
- Very strong post GI
- Very strong SS punishment
- Very good CH options
- Very good lows
- Very good tech catches.
- Good range
- Good stance game
- Decent damage

Weaknessess
- No good unsafety punishment until i18
- Relatively weak mid moves.
- Linear
- Very unsafe
- Relatively weak/easy to escape wakeups.

Vs Asta

Advantages:
- 1A is technically safe against astaroth
- You can take advantage of your strong GI if asta uses slow moves. (not really an advantage)
- MST can limit asta usage of 44A and other horizontal mids. (not really an advantage)
- Asta doesnt have fast/good punishers from SS/8wr.
- 4B is a very easy and useful counter to Astartoh's 4[A+B]

Disadvantages:
- GI is not a good way to stop Asta mixups.
- b6 and 4A is nearly useless.
- Can't outspeed astaroth
- MST is nearly useless
- Very hard to apply 88_22A punishment
- Hard to fish a CH on Asta with safe options.
- VERY WEAK FC PUNISHMENT compared to asta throw damage

VS AMY

Advantages:
- You can step most of her moves and mixups and abuse your powerful 88_22A 8wr punishment.
- 3G is very useful against amy, you can abuse your powerful post-GI game against Amy. Even better if you can GI (3B)A on reaction.
- FC 1B is very powerful against amy FC set-ups with minor disadv like 1A or A+B,K or 3B_3BA mixup. She would think twice before interrupting , risking a 80+ damage on a CH.
- Your CH game can be very advantageous if used sparringly with GI and step.

Disadvantages:
- Stances are very weak against amy.
- She can punish all your basic moves very well with BB , 66B or 3B
- You cant take advantage of your range against her, b/c nearly every move she has TC's
- Her B+K aGI makes your already poor risk reward on mid atacks even worse.
- You can't punish her unsafe moves well enough.
- Can kill from single KD.

Voldo
Advantages:
- 66A bug vs Voldo BS aGI (BS A+B) used in conjuction with 2KB makes BS pressure nearly impossible.
- You can take advantage of your extended range.
- You can take advantage of GI against some of voldo mixups from stances (2A+B~CR ex)
- Voldo cant punish you well from sidestep. Also, Voldo can't step well.
- Stance can be used relatively well against Voldo (watch out for CR B though)
- You can punish his 66A+B with k:B relatively easily, removing one of his better ranged tools.
- You can connect some better combos, turn some tech catches into traps or even connect some backthrows (especially MST) due to BS.

Disadvantages:
- Voldo can punish your unsafes very well.
- Voldo 6G after some transitions into BS evades your 2K(B) allowing him to punish you on hit. (still easy to counter though)
- Voldo has some good TC moves to counter MST transitions.
- Some combos will work awkward b/c of Voldo BS.
- Voldo post GI is very strong.


Yohimitsu
Advantages:
- Stances are abusable against Yoshi, b/c he has no good answers to MST and has to take risks against RLC.
- Your ranged pokes and CH game are abusable against yoshi.
- MST crouches through iMCF. 66K jumps iMCF allowing to press the adv in many situations. = iMCF is less a threat than to a usual character.
- You can punish DFG K and FC 3K very well with 4KB.
- 214A doesnt evade most of your usable mids and 2KB (it still evades 66K and BB)
- Yoshi has no particularly powerful punishment for 2KB.

Disadvantages:
- Yoshi can punish some of your useful moves with 6K_6K2K
- Very few opportunities to step into 88_22A.
- GI is not easy to apply (option select is very disperse frame-wise), throw and slow lows are big part of the game.
- No decent counters to DFG. (not really a disadvantage)
- You cant punish some stuff faster characters can punsh.
- iMCF forces you to change your 50/50 game significantly.

Recently I've been actually thinking this matchup is 6:4 favorable for mits.

PS to Saitoh: I'm sorry, friend, I still feel I need to give you a better explanation on what I think about this matchup, I need to re-check your vids to give advice. I will do so next week, for I will be on a business trip for a weekend. About what you posted before about b:A, or course it is a decent tool, but with a little anticipation you can punish it (I agree its not easy at all, though) and I havent seen a single bA in you vs Lee vids, thats b/c he had no opportunity to apply it, thus it is a situational move. Dont let yourself be tricked into thinking something is useless b.c your opponent seem to have found a good counter for it. bA is something that helps me a lot, but once I start overusing it, or 1A to interrupt I become very vulnerable to bullrush, or punishment if my opponent anticipates it or you can just guard and get a free grab attempt at closer range. Few notes about wake ups - after bullrush hits small dash into 2A+K is a great setup for 3B_3 mixups. I saw you use this in other vids, but probably the pace of this match were too fast. Even just run into throw is not interruptible. there is no real reason for astaroth to be walking around grounded enemy, asta can always force his opponent to get up and then unleash hell on him ;)
I will try my best to go in depth once I return.
 
Mitsu Matchups Ranking Project

Amy: it seems like she has the advantage overall, from your listing. The thing that really annoys me is the fact that pretty much all stances are useless against her, and you have to play a very basic Mitsu against her.

Yoshi: he punishes Mitsu's 3B for 50 I believe. And he has a very nice RO game.
 
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