Mixin it up and Makin the Opponent Say WTF

Thanks for the many answers. I'll do my best to quickly respond here. I also should have probably clarified that these are attacks that I want to work reasonably well against blocking opponents. I don't expect to be +frames on block, but they can't be too dangerous. For example, 6A (or any other RO) is nice because you can follow it up with a TJ or TC.

3B - *does* end in RO but *doesn't* move you any closer. I like 3B once I get in there, but frankly it's not what I'm looking for. It doesn't let me get in there, it's a tool to use *once I do*. As for 3B RO A, I have definitely been spamming a lot of 6A RO A. I like that a lot.

33B~A - Dave, I'm confused. 33B is the mid. 33B~A is the high. I think you got that backwards in your post. I need something that approaches that *isn't* a high. On the plus side, I can throw in 33Bs to keep them from ducking the 33B~A. 33B~A looks pretty unsafe on block, so I'm still not convinced it fulfills my need for an approaching attack. I will try to incorporate it for a bit and see how that goes.

66K - *another* high! I need a mid, folks!

4BK - 4B at least has him advance the slightest bit, and of course hits mid. I would mow a Namco dev's yard for a year if he just extended its range a tiiiny bit. The fact that you have low TCing A, high TJing K and quick mid B options out of there is nice, too, although I tend to get stuffed when I try the K.

33K - Hmm... This may help. I'll have to see. Has longer range than it looks, but doesn't appear to set you up to do much after it hits.

4AB - Doesn't really close range, and again starts with a high hit.

Maybe I'm just spoiled coming from Taki who has her 33_99B, 66B:A, 66K and Wind Roll throw_B_A. Those are just the first four I thought of; naturally there are others She can't even fight at mid range, so they gave her tons of tools for getting in close. I just wish Maxi had even 1/4 of the tools.

Also, Nikkelz, while you may not feel his long range game is lacking, I do, and perhaps it's simply because you know tools I don't. Also, ne of my primary opponents is a Siegfried. His 2A is ridiculously long reaching, and of course his mids and highs are, too. I can't just walk into midrange and start fighting. I have to force him to block so that I can get to midrange in the first place. The only way to do that is to approach while attacking wth something he can't simply duck.

It probably sounds as if I don't appreciate the input given above. I do, though. And if you can come up with more ideas, I'd be even happier. In the meantime I'll use more 44AB than I have been, and starting throwing in 33B/33B~A mixups in. Here's hoping they help.
 
22_88K's useful at mid range if you anticipate a H. (Especially against Siegfried.) If you don't follow up with the second K, you can RCC etc for followups from there.
 
Never gave it much thought, but I suppose 22_88K *does* move you in a decent distance. Thanks!

Of course, if my only approachers are a high and a low, they can still just duck and block. Looks like 236B might have to fill this void. Ugh. I hate that move.
 
i still think best closing in option is 4BBK (stop at BB if they know to block or duck) its not exactly waht your looking for but its movment range is freaking awsome add to that you can mix it up so you get

4BBK
4BK
4BB~RCKK:K
4B~B+K(WL)

just a couple of thoughts there

you could even if you really wanted to get to RO go

4B PSL3~RO i have used that a few times and it does work quite neatly especaily if the oppent is fond of his A interupt.
 
malapardis:
i think you misunderstood me, i didn't imply Maxi has a good long range game at all. It's the reason why i don't throw attacks out at long range. He isn't a long range character, he's a mid range character so my advice was to strive to get there. You don't need to be hella close, so you don't need to look for moves that advance THAT much. If you want to get closer move forward. Pretty simple. Personally the initiators for forward momentum and attacking would be 6A, and 4B. 6A is high but at i14 you can't go wrong really.

If the Sieg is good, he'll use aGA to cut steps mostly, and 4K as his choice mid, with 3B to remind u where you should or shouldn't attack. You just need to play carefully. Keep stepping to his left side, and thwart his aGA with 44AB. (TC with good range and forward momentum). Also, regardless of whether it is high or not, i do 33A QUITE a bit if i want to get into mid range in a hurry. It is one of his best attacks. 33B does get in as well, but you have to be careful of right steppers. Worth using, cuz the reward is very high on CH.

As mentioned, if you're in stance, LO BK gets in easily, BUT my personal favorites are RC A and RO KA. 4B, 3B, and 6A mixups allow u to get to RC A and LO BK if you know what u're doing (i.e conditioned them). Experiment with such loops and tell us your results.
 
I feel like Maxi's best distance is from close~mid range. Maxi's lows suck, so being close enough to slip in a throw is very important if you want your opponent to duck. Also from mid range, you are susceptible to backstep evasion. You are limited to 4B and 6A to start attacks. When you are closer, you can throw out 3B a lot more without pushing too far. This is important, because 3B RO A does a good like 10 damage more than 4B or 6A, as well as a lot more soul gauge damage.

I guess it comes down to how you play. Anyone whos ever played against me knows that i like to rush my opponent down. I get in their face and make them guess my mix-ups and find their holes. 3B is Maxi's best tool for this kind of pressure, while 4B is great for closing space. If you wanna hang back and fish for CH, then yeah, maybe playing mid-range works well, that just not my style (unless i'm Mina, then i'll sit back and CH your whiffs all day long :sc1min1: ).
 
malapardis said:
Never gave it much thought, but I suppose 22_88K *does* move you in a decent distance. Thanks!

Of course, if my only approachers are a high and a low, they can still just duck and block. Looks like 236B might have to fill this void. Ugh. I hate that move.
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Nah. Maxi has mids that work at about the same distance as 22_88K. 88A, 33B_Ba, 33K, 66A, 33B+K etc just gotta mix them up depending on the context.
 
also one of my personal favorites.....RO KK. its gets most people that are not trained by it. and it will even get those that are trained by it most of the time. Even RO K 3B can catch people off guard because once the K hits that think they have a chance to get a hit in there. they usually miss. also A~k while in nuetral stance is a good mid distance NC. I like to throw that one out if i know the opp is gonna try to rush me down. It will also make your opp tech crouch witch is stunned thus follow up hit is guaranteed on hit.

33B~A is a little unsafe on block. but then again a lot of maxi's moves are unsafe on block. But that particula move has frame advantage on block (i think) and hit (more so on hit of course). If you go in expecting that B to be blocked then you can rush in there in either a psl and go for the low sweep (lots of people fall for that) or keep the pressure on and start a 3B RO A string. Granted 33B~A you can see coming a mile away, i usually do it on a downed oppenent that i think will tech up real quick. Maxi is all about taking risks. If you are used to taki, the transition to maxi is going to be more difficult than you think. Taki has a lot of safe moves as to where maxi is more of a risk/reward toss up. Its more or a matter of mixing up your stances more than any other character. If you are going to throw the same 3 strings out over and over you will get punished real quick. While you keep the pressure on you have to throw in little guesses here and there. Most people dont block low on maxi cause they believe that maxi has no low game at all. Technically he doesnt but...There are various strings that have a quick low poke or sweep in there that will train your opp to block low eventually. I especially love the BL B. its a real quick poke that stuns and you have a world of options to work with from there.
 
33bA is safe. Maxi is generally safe imo, at least the majority of my moveset.

Those that say maxi has no low game need to use 2KK, 1A, BL B, FC 1A, (FC 3A and 236A when opp life is low) and in many traps BL KK more. He has a good bit of lows compared to other characters. Quite a bit. 2B+KB is NC on some characters as well.
 
you and i have different opinions then. I can see that 33B~A coming a mile away. If i block it, 2A is coming out and ill get it. Maxi's low game works for you! My maxi low game is a little different. I like to hit em a couple highs a couple mids and then 1 low right in the middle of a string cause they are blocking high. Seems everything i post you say something negative and completly opposite.

am i just going crazy or do you think i dont know what im talkin bout?
 
you and i have different opinions then. I can see that 33B~A coming a mile away. If i block it, 2A is coming out and ill get it. Maxi's low game works for you! My maxi low game is a little different. I like to hit em a couple highs a couple mids and then 1 low right in the middle of a string cause they are blocking high. Seems everything i post you say something negative and completly opposite.
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I believe i nailed you with 33Ba quite a few times last time we played. Anyways, if you block it and then do 2A and interupt me, i'm just going to do RC B next time and nail you for way more damage than your 2A did.

And as for lows, the only ones i really use are out of BL (oh BL, i love you so). 1K is alright when i just need to tack on a little damage for a kill, but i rarely use it other than that. 2KK is good sometimes too if you need a ring out, otherwise i don't use it. 1K and 2KK just don't fit into my play style. They kinda kill your momentum whether you hit with them or not, and I like to push forward. That is why I would much rather mix throws then poke with a weak 1K.
 
Uber1337 said:
I believe i nailed you with 33Ba quite a few times last time we played. Anyways, if you block it and then do 2A and interupt me, i'm just going to do RC B next time and nail you for way more damage than your 2A did.

And as for lows, the only ones i really use are out of BL (oh BL, i love you so). 1K is alright when i just need to tack on a little damage for a kill, but i rarely use it other than that. 2KK is good sometimes too if you need a ring out, otherwise i don't use it. 1K and 2KK just don't fit into my play style. They kinda kill your momentum whether you hit with them or not, and I like to push forward. That is why I would much rather mix throws then poke with a weak 1K.
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nah...you beat the shit out of me with that damn 33B~A. It was hard to tell the difference between that and the 33B. I personally love it now. I throw it out alot more than i used to. I am just like you. I like to push forward and keep the pressure on them. I seldom use any other lows other than the BL B, and the foot sweep that you hate so much (cant remember what stance it comes from i just know when to use it!) Maybe if i need to finish up a win real quick ill use 3A+K. But even thats kinda rare for me. Just seems this hotnickles is contradicting every tactic i talk about. I think we just have totally different play styles. I dont think he means to be contradictory. (thats a big word. i had to google it) lol......
 
Uber1337 said:
And as for lows, the only ones i really use are out of BL (oh BL, i love you so). 1K is alright when i just need to tack on a little damage for a kill, but i rarely use it other than that. 2KK is good sometimes too if you need a ring out, otherwise i don't use it. 1K and 2KK just don't fit into my play style. They kinda kill your momentum whether you hit with them or not, and I like to push forward. That is why I would much rather mix throws then poke with a weak 1K.
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1K can be fun just as a FUD initiator. Bark their shins a few times and they have to start thinking about it. Anything that encourages them to move less is an asset IMO. (But then I'm more a CH focused player than a lock down player.)
 
hotnikkelz said:
Don't rely on that at all. At high levels of play you will be subject to torture from players who duck conventional LO K, and RO A strings. NAMELY 4B LO K, and 3B RO A. They look for those 2 in particular JUST to duck and punish.
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Train them to duck RO A I say. If they keep doing that they will get hit by RO B or RO K[K]
 
It's my belief that 2KB is overlooked because it was so easy to step in the older versions of SC since step was so strong.

Now that step has been toned down in SC4, I find it more useful now. Especially if you hit 2KB due to combo damage potential.

Players normally don't expect 2K so if you hit them with it, then it kills any attempt to step the B. Even Ivy can't step it on hit.

The trick is to train them in blocking 2KK.

If they block the 2K it's still pretty difficult to step. If they attempt to step, then they'll risk getting hit by the second K and a Side Dash/Attack CH if they try to hit or attack, which will knock them down and you can mix it up from there.

If you have trained them to block, then they leave themsevles open to get hit by B in 2KB.

2KB is -6 on block, so it's pretty safe since there aren't any moves that fast to punish it. Plus it leaves you in RO, so you have the same mixup options you do for 3B.

The speed for 2KB is resonable, plus 2KK and 2KB animations look almost similar so it would take someone with almost god like reflexes or on performance enhanced drugs to spot the difference.
 
hotroddave:
If you don't like me disagreeing with u, or feel 'hurt' or whatever, then i won't reply/quote/answer your posts....happy?
I'm also unsure as to why u think cuz i disagree with you i've questioned your intelligence. Uber and i disagree all the time...but i'm quite sure we understand that we're sharing different takes on style.

Now if u say Maxi's 33bA is unsafe and IT IS SAFE, then you need to just accept that fact. You are misinforming new players who've seen your post, am i wrong to correct that? i doubt so. So relax, i'm not against you.

Aqua snake:
2KB is really not a good move, and it is easily punishable actually if they know how. I can't WL Sophie's 236:B for instance, and the LO BK comes out just a tad too slow to interrupt decently fast attacks unfortunately. Trust me i WANT to use this more, but after another maxi player was using both 2KK and 2KB against me i was like shit, this is easier to block and punish than i had thought.

Margi i use 1K as well, cuz well strangely enough 1K is one of his fastest attacks at i15 hahaha. I think too cuz of his WS A he can continue his flow even though 1K hits on normal hit. I'll have to try that some more. 1K(CH) -> 6A seems pretty uninterruptable, that's a +.

uber, 2KK is NCc and stops steps well and gives you i think +4~3? worth using i think. NO one seems to block the 2K part. I wish the second hit was still delayable. I use BL B a shitload too :)
 
hotnikkelz said:
hotroddave:
If you don't like me disagreeing with u, or feel 'hurt' or whatever, then i won't reply/quote/answer your posts....happy?
I'm also unsure as to why u think cuz i disagree with you i've questioned your intelligence. Uber and i disagree all the time...but i'm quite sure we understand that we're sharing different takes on style.

Now if u say Maxi's 33bA is unsafe and IT IS SAFE, then you need to just accept that fact. You are misinforming new players who've seen your post, am i wrong to correct that? i doubt so. So relax, i'm not against you.
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You need to read that last post i did. I quite clearly stated that I dont think you mean to be contradictory I just think we have totally different play styles. Maybe i used the wrong wording on that...sorry holmes. I just think we have different play styles is all. Nobody is butt hurt, we just play differently is all! I actually tend to find your posts are usually more informative than mine at times. Your still my favorite pain in the ass!
 
2KB is -6 on block, so it's pretty safe since there aren't any moves that fast to punish it. Plus it leaves you in RO, so you have the same mixup options you do for 3B.
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-6 is not good for anything that is going into stance. You gotta understand how that frame data works to use it. If you are at -6 going into RO, then that means your fastest move, RO A, is going to come out at i19 (i13 + i6). This is not fast at all. Even 6A, which is only -3 on block, has all of its followup options beaten by a simple AA (or worse, TC moves like Sieg 3B or Asta 6K). The only lead into RO that you can not shut down after block is 3B, with its +4 frame advantage. At +4, RO B becomes JUST fast enough to beat out the beefy TC options out there.
 
That's really really true. Sad thing also is if you're at -6 and greater you can't WL fast verticals i11 -> i14. It seems the limit to WL while in stance has to be at -4~5 frames.

*pokes hotrod* it's all good :p
 
hotnikkelz said:
*pokes hotrod* it's all good :p
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if your gonna poke me, just dont poke me in the nuts!!

Out of 10 times you throw out that WL, how many actual GI's do you get out of it. For me...its probablly only 1...lol

However, ive been messing with that other loop that is a constant GI against the horizantals (sorry dont remember what loop it is, but comes out of BL) Never really used it in my arsenal but, I find out of 10 times, Ill get 5 GI's and I can mash k and get the lightning kick out of it that seems to be pretty rapey!!

Are there any combos out of that loop that are a bit more useful than the lightning kick. I know bout the B version, and the A version ( A version is crap and punishable IMO) But im really diggin that one and its rapeing my homies offline. At least for now till they come up with a defense for it!
 
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