New frames, new thread!

Hi Guys this Adamas from Germany ;-)

There some things that must be corrected. The followthings that I noticed is:

BT A is i12
BT 2A is i16
BT K is i13
BT B is i17
BT A+B is i17
BT 2B is i18
BT 2K is i19

22_88A is more than +9 on hit

ABK is +1 on hit and +3 on CH

BT A +9 on hit

AA is 0 on hit and +1 on tiprange

AB 4A+B~A is -1 on hit

WS AA is -3 on hit

AB is -5 on hit

BT 2A is -6 on hit

AB 4A+B~A PO is -13 on block


Please test it again. That's only the A Moves, maybe there more mistakes in the list.

And thanks guys for a great job in this forum, it helps me many times

And a special thanks to Harlister with his great vids!
 
PB-Adamas said:
BT A is i12
BT 2A is i16
BT K is i13
BT B is i17
BT A+B is i17
BT 2B is i18
BT 2K is i19

22_88A is more than +9 on hit
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<<-- This could be the problem i used 22_88A as reference so if it is wrong (+3 frames off)
that ruins all my BT FC impact frames. Please tell me how you tested the 22_88A recovery.
And since i tested Taki VS Taki the ABK recovery is also wrong when i have the impact frames of BT moves wrong since it leaves the opponent BT.

PB-Adamas said:
BT A +9 on hit
Click to expand...
This is right don't know how i could be so completely off.

PB-Adamas said:
AA is 0 on hit and +1 on tiprange
Click to expand...
This seems to be wrong because after AA the next A gets beaten by an opponent Taki's A no matter the range.

PB-Adamas said:
AB 4A+B~A is -1 on hit
Click to expand...
Right. After this your i15 1B trades with opponent Taki's i16 2B.

PB-Adamas said:
WS AA is -3 on hit
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This is a bit fuzzy because after this your i15 B trades with the opponent Taki's i18 33_99B (so -3 on hit), your i16 6B gets beaten by i20 44A (so -4 on hit) and i15 66B even trades with the opponent Taki's i21 22_88B (so -6 on hit).

PB-Adamas said:
AB is -5 on hit
Click to expand...
could also be -6 on hit because after this your i10 A trades with i16 3B.

PB-Adamas said:
BT 2A is -6 on hit
Click to expand...
No it's rather +4 on hit because your i18 WS B trades with i14 3K, and your i19 6A trades with i15 B. I must have confused something in the list.

PB-Adamas said:
AB 4A+B~A PO is -13 on block
Click to expand...
Actually i'm not very sure about the PO frames in general.
I used the frames of reference and don't exactly know how to test it completely failsafe without them.
And this is also fuzzy because after this i9 PO A beats i22 11K but trades with i21 7_8_9B.

Please forgive me when some are 1 or 2 frames off because it all depends on hit boxes, evasive properties and stuff like that too. Also i'm only human and make mistakes.
And you picked just the moves which are crappiest to test in my opinion.

I changed the things that are definately wrong.
 
Ok there some mistakes on my side. I tested it again ;-)

First AA is -1 on hit, don't know what happen in this test.

WS AA is -3 on hit, becuase Takis A tradet with Takis K

AB is -6 same as AA...don't know what happen.

By BT 2A i mean on block, not on hit. BT 2A is -6 on block.

@Flechmasher

Mach dir mal kein Kopf, sollte auch keine Kritik sein, jeder macht da ein paar Fehler aber je mehr Leute drüber sehen, desto genauer sind die Ergebnisse oder? Bin ja froh das es Leute wie dich gibt, sondt müsste ich das ja alles alleine machen ;-)
 
I don't know how interested in this you guys are, but my testing of 2bA finds it to be an i8 move. We're on the same page with grab = i17 Taki A = i10 too, you might want to look at the move again.
 
The more I read, the more I think Taki should be permanently in back turned.
All her best moves are from that direction and she can still throw.
Safe launcher (BT A+B), BT A and BT 2A are super good, BT B and BT 2B are safe and very good, BT K is stupid good. BT 2A+B is even better than the front turned version.
Taki need a good quick way of getting BT... hmm, might try using stalker side to get her BT more.
 
I can calculate all frame data just by looking and counting lols :P
Maybe Voldo coud share some of his combos thats transfer to BT lol.
 
Halister said:
The more I read, the more I think Taki should be permanently in back turned.
All her best moves are from that direction and she can still throw.
Safe launcher (BT A+B), BT A and BT 2A are super good, BT B and BT 2B are safe and very good, BT K is stupid good. BT 2A+B is even better than the front turned version.
Taki need a good quick way of getting BT... hmm, might try using stalker side to get her BT more.
Click to expand...

22A is her best way to get into BT. Been using it a lot for quite some time now. 22A on hit gives her insane BT mix-ups. Jump over your opponent on wake-up so your back is turned is bad ass too.

Haven't found any practical BT set-ups using stalker. Maybe you'll have better luck
 
Added the recovery of 1B to determine the usefulness of an 1B, delay A / 1B, throw / 1B, Block / 1B, 3KK mix-up.
It's -9 on hit (your i14 3K trades with i23 3A) and -16 on guard (you can block i16 6B, but can't block i15 1B)
so it's not that good.
When you 1B, delay A as long as possible it clashes with Taki's A when the 1B is blocked.
I'd still recommend a mix-up of 1BA / 1B, delay A and 1B, 3KK since people start to like crouching the A of 1BA.
This fact and the bad recovery of 1B also makes 1B, Throw rather useless :P

Have fun!

OmegaXCN said:
22A is her best way to get into BT. Been using it a lot for quite some time now. 22A on hit gives her insane BT mix-ups. Jump over your opponent on wake-up so your back is turned is bad ass too.

Haven't found any practical BT set-ups using stalker. Maybe you'll have better luck
Click to expand...

I think you have to be pretty close (max 1A distance or less) when you do STK side to be BT when you land.
Weren't there some nice STK set-ups in one of Halisters Vids?
 
there are good BT setups from double bomb

WS B:stk cancel would be good if you were allowed to do anything but the normal stalker. Stalker side or 4A+K version would be nice too cause it leaves you BT when you land. But since you can only do one type of stalker from the WS B, not as useful.

Doing 4A+K from close will leave you BT
Doing A+K from far will leave you BT if you land short of them.
The problem is that they have time to react to the stalker and attack as you land.
So far 22A is the best BT setup after hit (unless you do the double bomb into BT 2A+B combo and get up BT - which I personally think is better)
Too bad 22A is high otherwise it would work a LOT better. It would be nice if you were BT on block as well.
 
A way for me to get BTed:
Launch and juggle them or knock them down. When facing Taki many people like to Air Control or roll around you on the ground to evade getting relaunched or stuff like that. More often then not they try to get behind me.
Leaving me BTed.

When i do 22_88B AB POR for example, after they Air Control to the side, it leaves me in BT PO for BT PO B+K, or BT PO 8K.

But most things that leave you BT have the opponent grounded which kinda makes high BT attacks like BT A and BT K rather useless, If you don't wanna wait for them to get up.

And to me it seems that if a STK side leaves you BT, you're so far away that nothing short of RM K or, in lucky cases, BT K
will hit the opponent, unless you have somehow cornered your him. You can just RM and then attack BT of course.

Then there are also:
WR BKB(distance varies),
44KK(very far away,you need a RM to make any BT move work) and
PORC 2A+B(Pseudo BT 2A+B with the worst recovery on Block ever: -30 something) that leave you BTed.

BTW what happened to BT K6 to WR? After that WS B STK incident, i wouldn't be surprised if BT K WR is also hidden somewhere in there.
I tried some combinations like BT KK B+K but to no avail. Maybe you have more luck.

PS.: I added a+bA and 4a+bA to the frame list both are i9 like 2bA.
 
Taki's ia+bA hit at the same time as Algol's AA (i14) after his 623ABK on block (+6), and not his K afterwards, so its i8, but I couldn't get i2bA to connect unless i used 3K or 6BBB after (i15)... Same thing as when I tested this with Algol's 22K on hit (+8) then Algol's BB (i16)... It sucks it's a high but it's nice to know yoshi doesn't have the fastest horizontal in the game (iMCF which is better by the way)... But this thing can potentially punish -8 or -9 attacks on block much easier than carve fist, which is a bit scary...
 
A+B~A is VERY hard to do at i8 unless you map the buttons because of having to hit the A button, releasing and then hitting it again.
 
So this would mean all her cancels like this are i8??? thats amazing... I'm probably going to retest all of Taki's data and since I have more of a grasp on stance moves and how to apply them after doing mitsu, seig, and some of kilik's data (more later), I'll do what I can to get her stance data down!!! @~@y
EDIT:
I added in damage!!! She has weak damage, balances out her speed I guess...
EDIT2:
Added PO transition data, take a look??? 1BA~PO/ 22A~PO is beast!!!
 
a nice thing about 4A+B~A is that you can buffer the 4A+B from block, and this allows you to punish a few moves from a crouched blockstun that are otherwise safe from WS or FC moves (e.g. Taki's K2).
not as good as having Amy's 6BB stuff, but hey there's some free damage there if you want it.
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
Added PO transition data, take a look??? 1BA~PO/ 22A~PO is beast!!!
Click to expand...

You mean the frame data in the wiki?
Nice stuff but i couldn't find 22A~PO in there.
By the way how did you test the PO transition Data?
I don't know where the transition time ends and where the impact time of the PO attack begins.
Same goes for WR and WR moves.
 
he means 33A PO

I like the 4A+B~A to punish force crouch moves. Being -1 isn't the worst thing with Taki.
 
zombie i wanna see you start using taki everyone youy pickup you make them look like a cool charactrer especially in the big rayray costume:) and this is the one character id like to see used properly
oh and can you do BT A then 4A+BB for a combo?
 
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