Nightmare General Discussion/Q&A

LockDownZ said:
Also, I think 33B6 ~> GS cancel (maybe not needed) ~> 4BB is the best follow up as it does more damage than using GSB or 3B.
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GS B catches all tech and grounded, same as 4BB. GS B gives 144 damage + RO and wallsplat if it catches ukemi. 4BB gives 123 if it catches ukemi. 4BB does the most grounded damage, but requires a perfect cancel to guarantee it, and is complete and utter death on whiff. GS B's timing is much more lenient, at least for the pat matchup.

Also, there's a super hidden anti-NM secret that pretty much makes 4BB ground hit useless in most situations: you can tech out of the second hit of 4BB to NM's right. The only time this isn't possible is if 4BB hits a sideways opponent, like after 33B BE. If they ukemi after 33B and you time 4BB perfectly so that it is a guaranteed ground hit, and they ukemi, they can ukemi again to escape the second hit. I'm sure some ranges prevent this from happening, but whatever. 4BB was super nerfed in sc5, which sucks. It used to be one of his best mix up tools back in SC4 when it gave a ground stun + NSS A tech trap and you couldn't tech out of the second hit.

Its why I use 66B for grounded damage, plus it does more damage than 4BB if the second hit lands.



LockDownZ said:
Probably mentioned already, but not in the MU thread.

Vs. Patroklos

-After blocking his 66A, it pushes back enough to a range where you can utilize NM's wtf grab range.
-The use of 9k should be more emphasized, as it is useful against his low mixup kicks and also doesn't give him a followup to his 66B combo when hit.
-The B in his 236 AB can be stepped, backstepped, which you can punish with a GSB. It can also be dodged by NSS and punished with NSS bA
-236A upon blocked can be punished by aGa, or 6A. Would recommend the latter due to the lack of errors upon input.
-His 236B can be punished by 4k BE
-The second B in his 6BBB combo can be ducked, allowing you to step the last B or punish with wrB.
-The success of this MU IMO is mainly based on how well you can react to his grabs and 1k's. Spacing is pretty much useless in this MU due to his 66B, 66A.
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good stuff, i'll add it to the MU thread
 
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I can't get the 4BB to land on Pyrrha left teching at all (Also why I dismissed this earlier). It's either frame perfect or impossible. The timing to catch left tech in general seems so strict that it's not even worth it.
 
LockDownZ said:
-The use of 9k should be more emphasized, as it is useful against his low mixup kicks and also doesn't give him a followup to his 66B combo when hit.
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If you get reckless with hopkicks he can convert some air hits into a CE combo for retard damage, e.g. 2B -> CE. You can kind of turn this against him though, because he has to choose between 2Bing to beat jumps and throwing/doing nothing to beat NM CE.
 
Paragon049 said:
I can't get the 4BB to land on Pyrrha left teching at all (Also why I dismissed this earlier). It's either frame perfect or impossible. The timing to catch left tech in general seems so strict that it's not even worth it.
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You have to get a perfect cancel. Really tricky to do. It almost feels like you're doing it all as one slide input.

And yeah, it isn't really worth it.
 
looks like the 4BB after the GS cancel turns into a tech trap.
if that's the case, I actually have a combo that's more practical...sort of, and matches the dmg here and others that exceed it.


look around the 1:41 mark
 
Well oops.
okay GS cancel ~ 4BB ain't worth shit then

EDIT: Wait, wouldn't the tech trap from GS Cancel ~ GSB whiff if they tech to the side that makes GSB whiff?
 
LockDownZ said:
Well oops.
okay GS cancel ~ 4BB ain't worth shit then

EDIT: Wait, wouldn't the tech trap from GS Cancel ~ GSB whiff if they tech to the side that makes GSB whiff?
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I actually had ukemi set to right, these are genuine tech traps...spent a lot of time on these man
 
okay can I get some info on how to go about Tira. Fought Hawkeye the other day and the first 2 games I just about managed to pull through (1st match being Hawkeye's buttons weren't set) second match I had a to have some super-ass wits about me.
But 3rd and 4th matches were as I feared, got dominated by all the frame traps, setups, mixups. I was barely able to get a button in. So yh I just sat there, thinking "if this just his Tira, I don't even wanna see what his Natsu can do"
 
ZER0 said:
okay can I get some info on how to go about Tira. Fought Hawkeye the other day and the first 2 games I just about managed to pull through (1st match being Hawkeye's buttons weren't set) second match I had a to have some super-ass wits about me.
But 3rd and 4th matches were as I feared, got dominated by all the frame traps, setups, mixups. I was barely able to get a button in. So yh I just sat there, thinking "if this just his Tira, I don't even wanna see what his Natsu can do"
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It sounds like you're just unfamiliar with the character in general. I find it really helps to learn how to play the character a little bit yourself, so you may want to give that a try. Especially since there are very few Tira players, so it would be hard to get a lot of experience with the MU.
 
Paragon049 said:
It sounds like you're just unfamiliar with the character in general. I find it really helps to learn how to play the character a little bit yourself, so you may want to give that a try. Especially since there are very few Tira players, so it would be hard to get a lot of experience with the MU.
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that may very well be it, I would like to think that I've done well against all the high-lvl Tira's I fought against thus far, simply by doing mah thang with NM...but now it's just come to the point where I need to really focus on this matchup because, truth be told, aside from a very few moves I know how defend against and punish...but aside from that it dawns on me I know absolutely nothing about the matchup.

I tried playing Tira once...and Tira just wasn't having it, srsly the amount of times I fked up on everything because the crazy bitch suddenly decided to go bipolar on me whenever she wants. I once set myself up for a combo perfectly woulda been some crazy damage and suddenly she just changed moods and really screwed me over.
aside from that I'm working on Hilde and Aeon, so if I do decide to pick up Tira it'll probably in the far future
 
Haha funny, DIME totally pwned me with his Tira today, and like you, I had the same feeling
"So uh I just sat there, thinking "if this just his Tira, I don't even wanna see what his NM/voldo can do"
LOL
 
Tira's a pretty bad matchup for NM.

Punish her JS 66A and 66AA with 3AA. You should really be punishing single 66A a few times, which makes them either start 66AA, or stop it all together. JS 66AA also stuffs NSS pretty well. It stopped GS too before the cancel.

Her headbutt, if it doesn't change persona, is -7 on on hit. After 22A and 4A however, its 0.

JS 2A NH is -8 or something. CH is +7. Learn to tell when you've been CH.

Its a bitch, but you should really practice blocking 236 BE on reaction. Its only -11, so you get a mid/throw mixup afterwards.

Don't ukemi after GS 3B 4A 4K. 666B BE catches all directions and downed. Only ukemi if she's doing the 1A/662B mixup.

If she changes after the 4K during that combo, ukemi. She can catch it with 1A, but 66B BE is usually the first option, which is techable.

Don't forget updraft K is a low at tip range.

She can punish you alright in JS and very well in GS. You have to play really safe. Her i11 GS AA sucks for NM.

Punish her wr B with 3K or 4K or 3B if they do wr bk.



that's all i have for the moment, though there's a bunch of stuff i can't recall right now. i'll update when i remember
 
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