Nightmare General Discussion/Q&A

[Fame96]

I might be reason #1 behind it on PSN... lol

I stay trolling online all the time.

Yea i've been wreaking people online. Most likely because not alot of people on psn know what they are doing yet. I'll give them a week before people start pulling it together.

 

[TerminatorCortez]

well in a month or 2 people are gonna stop using him, they will find out soon enough that nightmare requires matchup knowledge they probably are going to start playing with xiba, maxi, phyrra and ezio.

 

[Fame96]

well in a month or 2 people are gonna stop using him, they will find out soon enough that nightmare requires matchup knowledge they probably are going to start playing with xiba, maxi, phyrra and ezio.

Those lazy fools at the same time i can't blame them. You and i are just some of the few people that have loyalty to their characters.

 

[Engared]

@SWBeta- Solid play on that stream Beta. Nice. When you step punish, try to use 33B more, it seems that you use 22B to do your step punishing which lowers your damage potential.

I think you can Lau throw from 33B GS B like in SC4 but even more so in SC5 (they will stand up right into the throw, so if this can be mixed up with GS B it should be very powerful).

Yo, why aren't we using WS A to punish from crouch? Isn't it so we get 80 damage from WS A 3B combo?

(Btw I dont have a console so i cant play the game in training yet lol)

 

[SWBeta]

Yea i've been wreaking people online. Most likely because not alot of people on psn know what they are doing yet. I'll give them a week before people start pulling it together.

Trolled my way all the way to top 3 on PSN

The rage mail and salt is ridiculous.

@SWBeta- Solid play on that stream Beta. Nice. When you step punish, try to use 33B more, it seems that you use 22B to do your step punishing which lowers your damage potential.

I think you can Lau throw from 33B GS B like in SC4 but even more so in SC5 (they will stand up right into the throw, so if this can be mixed up with GS B it should be very powerful).

Yo, why aren't we using WS A to punish from crouch? Isn't it so we get 80 damage from WS A 3B combo?

(Btw I dont have a console so i cant play the game in training yet lol)

Thanks, bro.

I used 33B a lot at first to step punish, but I kept getting stuffed by multi-hitting verticals, even after fully quick stepping. I don't get that issue with 22_88B. I'm sacrificing damage, but in return, I'm not losing 30+%. It's not completely out of my repertoire, however. The frequency with which I use it depends on the character I'm fighting against.

I've been doing throw on wake up post-combo a lot. Sometimes, depending on my opponent, I crouch to force guess between blocking/eating FC throw or WS [B ].

WS A is far too slow to punish stuff. WS B is still NM's best WS punisher, followed by WS K for slightly safer, but still unsafe lows.

 

[Panther]

So far the characters I lost to are mostly player material that I lost to. They know how to shut down options, and with the very little amount of lag (no lag at times) I must say that it all boils down to them exactly knowing what to do.

I only played Asians so far, and lost to Natsu, Astaroth, Patroklos and the like. Mostly Japanese and Koreans (urgh). It is going to be worse when people pull it together, I know some Japanese are trying to pick up Nightmare (see them going up against me) to find out exactly what makes him tick. One guy even quit on me (he beat me before) while using NM when I was about to perfect him last round.

On another note, most of you probably know by now but 2A+B gives back something like almost 25% meter if the AT hits. Really good to end combos with that if you are looking to gain back some meter instead of going for damage.

 

[oONineOo]

Hello everyone.

Since Zas isn't in the game, I'm planning on maining NM and Algol (Provided he doesn't get banned again). I have no idea what I'm doing and pretty much suck. But I'm really enjoying the game and am looking forward to learning a lot.

So, I have a couple questions to ask really quick.

1. What kind of character is NM? He has really good range, so I would think he is zoning, but I have been playing him as more of a rushdown character. Seems like he is pretty fast, and his pressure feels scary to me. I feel like I'm on the wrong track with this playstyle, but it feels so right to just overwhelm my opponent with constant pressure and big damage. Do I need to break this habit asap?

2. When I try to do NM's (Street fighter lingo, sorry in advance) Ultra move, I tend to get Grim Stance quite often, as a result of this I've been ignoring his Ultra, in favor of using more EX moves. Is his Ultra any good? Seems sketchy to me. Should I be more thrifty with his meter and save it for his Ultra, or is EX the way to go?

Disclaimer: I just got this game and I haven't played SC since IV, which to be honest, I didn't play for very long due to getting it way late and not having anyone to play( I got it in 2010), and I spent a lot of time playing SC2 casually. Plus I've only been playing the computer because I've been getting everyone unlocked. Now that everyone is unlocked, I'm ready to dig into the game. Any early advice is greatly appreciated. I'm sorry. These are probably really scrubby questions. Be gentle lol.

 

[Tiamat]

Hello everyone.

Since Zas isn't in the game, I'm planning on maining NM and Algol (Provided he doesn't get banned again). I have no idea what I'm doing and pretty much suck. But I'm really enjoying the game and am looking forward to learning a lot.

Excellent character choices. Those are the characters for real men. To answer your questions

1. NM's pressure is full of holes if you go for stuff into GS like 66K6. Most characters can stuff anything that goes to a stance with 2A. He can pressure well from knockdowns though. He has good evasion, range, and guard damage. Try things like 66B on block into either a sidestep or B+K to dodge attacks. I don't think it's easy to say he's a zoning or rushdown character cause he does both. It also depends on player style.

2. In my opinion, his CE is not very good unless you are doing it against stances/strings or on reaction. It is super super punishable if they see you doing it and sidestep. I think GS K BE is better than all his other BE and his CE combined.

 

[microgamer]

Hello everyone....

1. If people know how to play the matchup, it's really hard and risky for NM to rushdown. You can play him both ways, but a good balance of range and rushdown is key. Everyone is still trying to figure out how SCV NM really should be played, but I'm thinking his game will start developing around his guard guage pressure with his ranged attacks.

2. I'm having trouble applying his CE "Ultra" as well. Things you can do are use easy setups like 1K > CE. Or if an annoying character like Maxi or Viola is constantly applying pressure, block an attack and then buffer the CE while you're recovering. Ultimately it's really punishable, so my suggestion would be to save meter for the BE "EX" moves, unless you're absolutely certain that you opponent is falling into predictable patterns.

 

[TerminatorCortez]

2. In my opinion, his CE is not very good unless you are doing it against stances/strings or on reaction. It is super super punishable if they see you doing it and sidestep. I think GS K BE is better than all his other BE and his CE combined.

Same here, after missing it a few times and learning how unsafe it it, I prefer using GS K BE you either get space and advantage or gd damage. P.S is it me or you can't do anything after GS K BE because your opponents is to far if not stop agaisnt a wall?

 

[Tiamat]

Same here, after missing it a few times and learning how unsafe it it, I prefer using GS K BE you either get space and advantage or gd damage. P.S is it me or you can't do anything after GS K BE because your opponents is to far if not stop agaisnt a wall?

I don't think anything is guaranteed from GS K BE unless it wallsplat. Maybe if you're close enough to a wall you can get something but I haven't tested. I think they can just tech out of anything you do.

 

[Mavericks42O]

I've found that iaga kills the gauge alot worse than regular aga. Tested both and on block and nightmare K will beat Pyrrha A clean. They both give nice frames on guard.

 

[oONineOo]

Excellent character choices. Those are the characters for real men. To answer your questions

1. NM's pressure is full of holes if you go for stuff into GS like 66K6. Most characters can stuff anything that goes to a stance with 2A. He can pressure well from knockdowns though. He has good evasion, range, and guard damage. Try things like 66B on block into either a sidestep or B+K to dodge attacks. I don't think it's easy to say he's a zoning or rushdown character cause he does both. It also depends on player style.

2. In my opinion, his CE is not very good unless you are doing it against stances/strings or on reaction. It is super super punishable if they see you doing it and sidestep. I think GS K BE is better than all his other BE and his CE combined.

Ok, so it sounds like I can play the way I was playing, but I need to tone it down. Also sounds like I need to look for frame traps. Get them scared to stop blocking and mix in some throws.
And yes, they are for the manliest of men. When I clicked the icon for NM in character select, my beard instantly grew two inches! That's probably what happened to Aris...

1. If people know how to play the matchup, it's really hard and risky for NM to rushdown. You can play him both ways, but a good balance of range and rushdown is key. Everyone is still trying to figure out how SCV NM really should be played, but I'm thinking his game will start developing around his guard guage pressure with his ranged attacks.

2. I'm having trouble applying his CE "Ultra" as well. Things you can do are use easy setups like 1K > CE. Or if an annoying character like Maxi or Viola is constantly applying pressure, block an attack and then buffer the CE while you're recovering. Ultimately it's really punishable, so my suggestion would be to save meter for the BE "EX" moves, unless you're absolutely certain that you opponent is falling into predictable patterns.

That's an interesting idea about his game revolving around guard damage, but I can totally see why you would come to that conclusion.
As far as his CE goes, I was trying to do the same thing by buffering it during blocks and during attack moves. I think it has it's uses, but the risk on it is so great. You can purposely bait people into hitting by hitting with a safe attack and then letting them punish a few times, then when you have the meter, hit with that same attack and immediately do his CE, but the way damage is in this game you might lose more life than your opponent doing that. Plus if they don't take the bait, then you just threw away life on conditioning them, AND you are eating a full combo. It just doesn't seem worth it to me. Once we get frame data, I guess we'll be able to look into things a bit more, but ultimately counter supers are lame and have almost always been lame haha.
Also thank you for the CE and BE clarification. It was really late and I just wanted to type everything up and get to bed.

Going to be another busy day for me. Between work and moving I haven't had much time to relax, but I will for sure hit up training mode tonight and start putting in some real work! Thank for all the info.

 

[page]

Distressing news.

After some further testing I have found that bb, while safe on block, has some terrible problems everywhere else. At close range the 2nd hit can be stepped to in either direction, at longer range it can be stepped in either direction. Strangely it can only be quick stepped to his left up close, it will track quick step to his right.

So it loses to regular step, not quick step. Seems quick step has some extra startup. I suggest anyone who's testing tracking on moves test both quick step and regular step from now on.

The second hit is also way too easy to jg after blocking the 1st. :/

Tested with Nightmare, Pyrrha, Cervantes, and Tira. Same results for each of them.

I find the single move that I miss the most is 6b:b. It would be so useful in this game.

 

[Schneider-X]

That's disappointing news about BB, I kinda miss GS A+B, if it was buffed like the regular one, GS wouldn't be free to 2As :(

How badly can we be punished if they JG the second B?

I think if we aniticipate them stepping the second B we can just press B once, we should be able to punish them with 6A.

 

[hteng]

is BB used in any strings or techtraps? at close range it's too slow to be an interrupt, at long range you have better options like 3BB.

 

[oONineOo]

is so good. Too bad I'm terrible with the input and I get throws and A's randomly. So, let me make sure I'm doing this right. I push A and slide my finger to G so that for a split second both buttons are depressed, then immediately hit A? Or should it end up being 3 separate inputs that are just performed very quickly, so that I can piano it?

Edit: Just looked down and saw there is a whole thread on aga.

Also, on the <-K ,A+B+K can you give me a rough estimate as to when the 1 frame link (Just Frames are 1 frame links iirc) is supposed to be hit? Is it directly after he pulls his sword back on the 3rd hit? Or just as his sword is extended fully? Seems like it should be as he withdraws his sword, but I have been unable to do it that way. Not sure why there isn't a visual/audio cue to the timing ala Tekken with it's mokujin noises. Would be really helpful for me.

Anyway, I spent some time in training today and I really like SCV's training mode. Some very cool features in there. Seems like a lot of NM's moves are just safe enough that you can occasionally throw out an A+B and get a counter hit. If they block that though, it's going to hurt you very badly haha.

I'm starting to see what you guys are talking about with holes in NM's offense. Block and punish seems to be difficult with him though. Other than aGA (When I got it to come out) I was getting counter hit constantly on punishing. Tomorrow I'll have to try and figure out what kind of punishes I should be using. Almost ready to go get online with him and see how it goes. Mostly worked on combos today, now I just need to figure out when to hit them.

 

[Engared]

Trolled my way all the way to top 3 on PSN

The rage mail and salt is ridiculous.



Thanks, bro.

I used 33B a lot at first to step punish, but I kept getting stuffed by multi-hitting verticals, even after fully quick stepping. I don't get that issue with 22_88B. I'm sacrificing damage, but in return, I'm not losing 30+%. It's not completely out of my repertoire, however. The frequency with which I use it depends on the character I'm fighting against.

I've been doing throw on wake up post-combo a lot. Sometimes, depending on my opponent, I crouch to force guess between blocking/eating FC throw or WS [B ].

WS A is far too slow to punish stuff. WS B is still NM's best WS punisher, followed by WS K for slightly safer, but still unsafe lows.

Try Hold G (to turn around quicker) GS B as a mix-up to your throw. This was a reliable mixup in SC4 and if it works in SC5, we're looking at a 100 damage combo :D

Maybe try quick stepping to get around the multi-hit verts, I found that during my last session of SC5 that it worked much better than the normal step.

Also has any significant study been done of 2B+K BE yet? I still think that move has a ton of potential (possibly 3 + options from 2A+B scenario with that move) and has the possibility of doing 70+ damage. As such it should really be considered and researched into. (Its safe too as well right?)

 

[ioKain]

Meh, haven't been able to play the past couple of days. I was wondering though, how is GSB at catching rollers? Especially after 2A+B, Flapjack, and the combo 33B be, 4B(B).

And one more. If someone breaks your throw and it lands them on their butt. Is there any frame advantage over the breakee?

Edit for another:

Is blocked agA to GSA trap still good? Are there any better setups for an empty GSA?

 

[Climhazard]

I'm new to Nightmare.

I'm coming from a background of SCIV scrub and Seong Mina main. I really liked the 1P design for NM so I decided to pick him up as my main for SCV on a whim.

I did realize the risk of maining the character. Hes not really that good. I really need your guys' guidance on playing the character. I've been doing ok, but I've been really lost on punishing a lot of characters mainly Xiba and Leixia.

If you have any insight on my play style please let me know. I'm going to read up on the past few pages and try to absorb some of the techniques in the meantime.