Tiamat
[11] Champion
I think 11B is the other big loss. that move could be slipped in sneaky after so many things
Nightmare's Movelist Changes and Move Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Engared
- Start date
I think 11B is the other big loss. that move could be slipped in sneaky after so many things
page
[11] Champion
clean hit ce most damaging move in the game?
Nightmare is so manly.
Nightmare is so manly.
SWBeta
[08] Mercenary
Forgot to add, CE isn't chargeable. You input the command and NM just waits there for a bit before striking. He will only strike faster if he aGI's an attack. The strike comes immediately after the aGI. If there is no GI, NM will wait there. At higher level play, if you misread your opponent and mess up a bait with the CE, you will get thrown or side-walked to your side/back and punished.
Standard hit CE is 160 dmg, Clean hit is 200 dmg. CE that aGI's a move is 100 dmg, iirc. Most damaging CE in the game. 2nd most damaging is Algol's.
Standard hit CE is 160 dmg, Clean hit is 200 dmg. CE that aGI's a move is 100 dmg, iirc. Most damaging CE in the game. 2nd most damaging is Algol's.
page
[11] Champion
Yes, but what is gi clean hit damage?
Paragon049
[10] Knight
Is clean hit counter hit CE an instant kill? Lol.
Schneider-X
[11] Champion
Wow didn't see the 2 extra pages of stuff lol
Thanks for uploading the video of the movelist SWBeta
- Moderator
- #587
SilentWall
[10] Knight
It looks like Nightmare's CE is the key in this version?!
Tiamat
[11] Champion
I kinda doubt it. He'll probably be using his meter mostly for BEs. CE auto GIing everything is pretty sweet but it's the most unsafe CE in the game from the looks of it.
- Thread starter
- #589
Engared
[10] Knight
We did some intensive testing the other day on a lag free TV and I think Nightmare is still strong due to his range and punish ability still. My biggest problems that day was the change to the inputs/timing of many of his moves.
And you have to play extremely patient. So a play-style overhaul might be necessary and Nightmare will have to learn work his way out. Also quick step quick step and more quick step. This has replaced step guard imo. Nightmare should be able to play the step punish game at close using quick-step (only tried it closer to the end of the session but it seemed to work much better and was able to get into 3B/Throw opportunities more often then using normal step).
I potentially also found some techtraps (when you get the chance please test CH GS A 4Kbe~ GS B. If they tech it should be a 40 damage hit but it whiffs if they stay down. This should lead to 44BB/1A mix-ups) which should increase his damage significantly.
Good news is that GS B's push back should makes him safe from regular punishers. Many of his moves now require specific punishers (such as 3AA at tip etc).
33Bbe ~ 66B does about 82 damage and should be his most damaging whiff punisher.
3B~3B is NC. Does about 72 damage if i remember correctly.
I find that Nightmare doesn't need meter at all to get his damage out which is really cool and people always have to respect the CE on AGI.
In a game were stepping and spacing is everything, he will be able to compete. He is just weak in the short range but extremely strong in the long range. Don't try to duke it out in close range anymore (at least till full frames are known), instead patiently work your way out back into the mid range and long range. That's where he smashes whiff his extremely high whiff punishing ability.
Just as Goofy is calling him garbage tier right now, I'll call him A~B tier. It will just require a change in the way we play the character.
And you have to play extremely patient. So a play-style overhaul might be necessary and Nightmare will have to learn work his way out. Also quick step quick step and more quick step. This has replaced step guard imo. Nightmare should be able to play the step punish game at close using quick-step (only tried it closer to the end of the session but it seemed to work much better and was able to get into 3B/Throw opportunities more often then using normal step).
I potentially also found some techtraps (when you get the chance please test CH GS A 4Kbe~ GS B. If they tech it should be a 40 damage hit but it whiffs if they stay down. This should lead to 44BB/1A mix-ups) which should increase his damage significantly.
Good news is that GS B's push back should makes him safe from regular punishers. Many of his moves now require specific punishers (such as 3AA at tip etc).
33Bbe ~ 66B does about 82 damage and should be his most damaging whiff punisher.
3B~3B is NC. Does about 72 damage if i remember correctly.
I find that Nightmare doesn't need meter at all to get his damage out which is really cool and people always have to respect the CE on AGI.
In a game were stepping and spacing is everything, he will be able to compete. He is just weak in the short range but extremely strong in the long range. Don't try to duke it out in close range anymore (at least till full frames are known), instead patiently work your way out back into the mid range and long range. That's where he smashes whiff his extremely high whiff punishing ability.
Just as Goofy is calling him garbage tier right now, I'll call him A~B tier. It will just require a change in the way we play the character.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
why bother when you can do 4BB? you were the first one to post about that combo too lol
also....
TIER DISCUSSION IS A NO NO IN THE SA. this is a rule in all the SAs and several of you keep talking about it so I'm saying to stop it right now
I can't find where the SA rules were originally posted but the rules I saw are here http://8wayrun.com/threads/tira-directory-sa-specific-rules.9909/#post-377356
SWBeta
[08] Mercenary
GS A, 4K(BE) to GS B is not a tech trap. I was able to tech GS B both sides. If you do the extra hit in the BE, you are too far for GS B to reach.
And it begins...
And it begins...
- Thread starter
- #592
Engared
[10] Knight
I was wrong, the damage turned out to be 75 damage or so while the one I stated above was 82.
@SWBeta- Strange, my testing partner must not have been teching correctly, and i'm talking about not having the extra hit.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
66B does more than 4BB in combos? what the hell...
I guess we might be able to do some stuff with the 4B(B) for followups though...
Goofy
[10] Knight
When all the frame data, match-up knowledge, and tier-speculation is finalized and done, may my extreme pessimism and your extreme optimism stand as a "Monument of Reason" to whichever side is right. :P
Bummer on the TT. Lol, hopefully those shenanigans get patched relatively quickly. I can't imagine that being intentional.
- Thread starter
- #595
Engared
[10] Knight
I don't think my optimism is extreme at all btw. I'm calling him upper mid, not S.
Greven
[09] Warrior
is 22AB still there?
I love this move and it might be nm best choice after Guard Break
and has WS B any tc properties?
so many things i want to try/test/confirm, i cant wait any longer
I love this move and it might be nm best choice after Guard Break
and has WS B any tc properties?
so many things i want to try/test/confirm, i cant wait any longer
Tiamat
[11] Champion
I need frame data. Anyone found a +0 on block or hit move yet? I need it for testing and apparently 3K hit and agA block are no longer +0.
CH 1K is negative on hit. nooooooooooooooooooooo
CH 1K is negative on hit. nooooooooooooooooooooo
page
[11] Champion
I was wrong about nss bA. It's actually not hard now that I've figured that. Guess I should sleep a bit before I test stuff.
However, Nightmare bb is safe to everything I've tested save CEs. It actually forces crouch and pushes out far enough that 2as will whiff. Pyrrha and O Pyrrha jf 236bs can be blocked. There's even enough time to spam a+b after and beat some stuff. And it breaks in 8.
Dicking around with wall stuff right now. Everything hits, everything does lol damage. So much fun.
However, Nightmare bb is safe to everything I've tested save CEs. It actually forces crouch and pushes out far enough that 2as will whiff. Pyrrha and O Pyrrha jf 236bs can be blocked. There's even enough time to spam a+b after and beat some stuff. And it breaks in 8.
Dicking around with wall stuff right now. Everything hits, everything does lol damage. So much fun.
Greven
[09] Warrior
@tiamat
guess nm has to play even more with step/backdash than before
and what about NH/CH 3K frames?
guess nm has to play even more with step/backdash than before
and what about NH/CH 3K frames?
ioKain
[09] Warrior
Ugh, how bad is Aga now? I was plannin a lot of my game around Aga. :(