Patroklos Match Up Discussion

Dazzler said:
I am having trouble against characters who can just outspeed Pat, namely Natsu and Leixia. Any tips against these two?
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DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDGGGEEEE
No, but seriously, know your opponents strategy before they do. Make them think that any move they are going to do will be sidestepped, ducked, or hopped. That way they won't attack as often and it will give you the chance to pressure them (Of course easier said then done). After playing exactly ONE MILLION Natsu's, I find that it gets way easier to deal with her. For Lexia, I pretty much just flop on the ground until she thinks I am dead, and then I proceed to Slam Dunk.

edit -
Oh, and don't forget to grab all of the time.
 
Dazzler said:
I am having trouble against characters who can just outspeed Pat, namely Natsu and Leixia. Any tips against these two?
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Use more basic moves like 2a, aa, bb etc. You block their move chances are these will hit if they keep attacking unless it's a frame trap.
 
VoidCommand said:
Make them think that any move they are going to do will be sidestepped, ducked, or hopped.
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Normally I'd recommend this strategy, but against Natsu and Leixia in particular it's very difficult to do so because of moves they have that cover so many options. For example, Natsu's 22A is a mid tech crouching stepping horizontal that is safe and gives a 60 damage combo on hit. Leixia's 66K is a long range mid kick with full tracking that is safe, fast, and turns the opponent around for a side throw/mid mixup. Both characters can get in your face and push buttons due to their excellent frames, but as long as you don't let them land their big combos on you repeatedly you should be able to outdamage them if you just land a few big attacks in between the barrage of little girl pokes. Trying to play a strong offense game against them can be very difficult due to their ability to escape frame traps. Try to get that neutral situation going by backing off and running back up. If they start mashing as soon as you get into range, this can be taken advantage of depending on what their go-to option is. Once they learn to stop pressing buttons when you approach, it's a matter of hitting them before they hit you (preferably hitting them with something like 66B or CH 44A).
 
Astaroth, Mitsurugi, Natsu, Nightmare, and Pyrrha complete in the Matchup Guide.

aGI string interrupt and punishment topics have been unstickied as all practical punishment data goes into the Matchup Guide. The topics will be kept around as "archives".

Please inform me of any concerns you may have.
 
I really need to read up on that. I feel like most places I take a BB punish I could probably get something that hits harder.
 
How do you guys feel about the Ivy match up? I find people who space forever to be the most challenging in this match up because patroklos's punishment at range is nearly nonexistent. I also find 214B to be hard to deal with because it's pushback will not allow BB or AA to hit unless pat's back is against the wall/edge. Thankfully, once we get in her face we can really push on the offensive. Thoughts?
 
I was watching these matches recently. Somewhere in there, Mitsurugi punishes Nightmare's 4K BE with CH FC 1BB.

I've been using regular 236B after ducking the high in 4K BE, since 236B BE's second hit whiffs. But maybe 6BBB is a better idea...

georgenymous said:
Thoughts?
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It's very hard. Ivy can get away with a lot of stuff because of her range and pushback, and there's not a lot you can do but just plain outplay your opponent.

Using 3A is important, punishing whip attacks when you're in range is important. You have to be very careful in close, because if you're at disadvantage it can be very hard to move because of 66A and 3[A] (at least 3[A] is launch punishable).

CS and CE are also giant pains when you're within range. In the MLG May Gamebattles tournament, Link put me into losers bracket with run-up CEx2. It wasn't pretty.
 
DrakeAldan said:
I was watching these matches recently. Somewhere in there, Mitsurugi punishes Nightmare's 4K BE with CH FC 1BB.

I've been using regular 236B after ducking the high in 4K BE, since 236B BE's second hit whiffs. But maybe 6BBB is a better idea...
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If you react fast enough to 4K BE you can step to Nightmare's right after the first hit for a 66B or back throw.
WR A+B and (possibly) B+K might be good options too.
 
Thanks for the tips Drake! Been using 3A more and I'm liking it. And people say Pat has no long range horizontal mids that's safe( it's safe right?). How do you guys think Pat stacks up to Ivy? 5:5, 6:4, or 4:6?

Anyways, wanted to know some anti- Sieg, Maxi, and Yoshi because I'm getting hit by gimmicks and I don't like getting hit by gimmicks. (Salt tastes gross ya know?)
 
georgenymous said:
Been using 3A more and I'm liking it. And people say Pat has no long range horizontal mids that's safe( it's safe right?).
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Safe if you space it correctly. It's -12, from far away you should be good (careful about stepping/backstepping at that disadvantage.) Up close, you're getting an AA.

Cervantes can aB to punish 3A from wherever, that's a real disgusting part of that matchup.

And for the love of god, don't whiff it.

georgenymous said:
Anyways, wanted to know some anti- Sieg, Maxi, and Yoshi because I'm getting hit by gimmicks and I don't like getting hit by gimmicks. (Salt tastes gross ya know?)
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Exactly what gimmicks are you getting hit with? We need details.


Generally, if I had no help and wanted to counter a gimmick, I'd use a combination of analyzing replays, looking through that character's SA (or straight up asking in that SA), and recreating the situation in practice mode and trying every possible option to find a weakness. You can still feel free to ask here, but if you ever catch yourself on your own, that's what you do.
 
3A is -12 on block. Not incredibly unsafe.

Against Maxi
JS attacks, 3A, 3B, iWrA+B and 4B will work wonders against Maxi's Right Outer stance. Maxi can bait out your counter and wreck you for it so you are just gonna have to read your opponent.

Whiff punishing with 66B is something you should be doing in every match-up. Especially since Maxi is very susceptible to backstep.

Critical Edge will stuff all of his stance transitions and beat his aGI. If you are ever hit by Maxi's 11A you get a free CE so never pass it up.

When he puts the pressure on don't be afraid to use GI. It is very frustrating to us Maxi players.
 
Gimmicks from their stance shenannigans. Like Seig SBH A2 and his feint/cancel/mindgame stuff like 44B cancel into SCH. Some tips against 3 > SCH would be nice too. Against Maxi I'd most likely just like some anti-stance tips (thanks Reave for the tips!) because I have little Maxi knowledge. (Any online casuals anyone?) Same with Yoshi, just some general and anti-stance stuff. I guess I could go to practice mode and try to JG Yoshi's SDF B on wakeup...
 
with SBH A2, he doesn't recover that fast. If he's close to you, just 2A him.

If Sieg is canceling 44B into SCH, what is he doing afterward?

3B into SCH, you're supposed to step (to your right?) and 11B. 11B will TC under SCH A. But, that can be hard to do. I like standing there and guarding, and seeing what Sieg will do next. I find JG works well in this situation.

http://8wayrun.com/threads/mitsurugi-vs-maxi-stance-guide.11205/

This is written for Mitsurugi, but Belial breaks it down well. This is generally how you should be thinking.

If Yoshi enters Dragonfly, duck. You'll block K and duck A, and B is slow enough to react to and stand block.

If Yoshi enters Indian Stance, duck as well. You'll block the low, the guard break is slow enough to block (or step, IIRC), and the kick has a small hitbox for a mid, that will often end up whiffing over your head when you're ducking.
 
DrakeAldan said:
If Yoshi enters Indian Stance, duck as well. You'll block the low, the guard break is slow enough to block (or step, IIRC), and the kick has a small hitbox for a mid, that will often end up whiffing over your head when you're ducking.
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You can also just BB when you see him spinning. Should interrupt all options if it's timed properly.
 
Maybe I'm just not that smart, but I'm having trouble fighting Aeons with Patroklos. What are some things I should be doing in this matchup? What shouldn't I be doing?
 
Emperor said:
Maybe I'm just not that smart, but I'm having trouble fighting Aeons with Patroklos.
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If you know 66A is coming, A+B glitch auto-GI. That'll stop those right quick.

Don't whiff. Aeon's specialty is whiff punishment.

and for godsakes, stay the hell away from the ring edge. Unless you know what you're doing, just take your life lead and back off.


I normally work with individual moves past this point, so tell me what exactly you're having trouble with.
 
I'm pretty good at getting the auto-GI off 66A (about 3/5 times I get it). I only read the article on the A+B glitch this morning so can't wait to try that out. Whiffing is my bad, got improve on my spacing with Pat. (Day 5 Pat and loving it) One move I'm having a lot of trouble with is this janky flying headbutt (I have no idea what the input is) I'm not sure what to do against it. Even BB whiffs
 
These shall be tested, thank you for your assistance and one more thing an Aeon is standing near the edge of the stage and has the life lead, am I already dead or is there something I can do about this?
 
When Aeon's back is to the edge step to his left and RUN AWAY from him.

When your back is to the edge step to his right and RUN AWAY. You could try to ring him Ring him out if he whiffs but I don't recommend it. Depending on how close he is he will ring himself out with 4B+Kg if you step it.

Also note that he doesn't need you extremely close to the edge and if you think he can Ring you out from there he most likely can and probably a bit further.

He can Ring out from almost anywhere on his stage so be careful of that.
 
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