Patroklos Video Thread

Skillusionist

[08] Mercenary

The rest of the matches are on my channel too but I didn't wanna crowd up the thread with like 6 vids
Not really a lot ot say here without nitpicking but I do have two major critiques.

The first is the use of 44a. A move that is as under rated as it is deadly. 44a is a funky move on CH. When it lands in close the opponent is left a -14 frames but when landed with some space in between you actually get an extra frame. What is the significance of that? Well I'll get to that in a minute.

Now at close to mid-close range 44a in to bb combos for 67 damage on CH. So you missed out on a lot of free damage trying to land 3b's and 1b's. BUT the real fun is when you land it at mid to mid-tip range and you get that extra frame of advantage. This allows you to land 3kk which continues the stun chain for a free 236k. This lands for about 80ish damage and some very generous meter gain. You can also land 236b BE into 44b (its techable) for around 90ish damage. Or my favorite, if their back is to the wall, hit them with a cheeky 4k, and use the +5 frames on hit to force a mix up. (66b+g into wall splat followed by free 3b or if they anticipate the throw 3b into your wall combo of choice.)

Now this move is VERY tricky to space for two reaons. One it has an awkward push back, you'll slide back and you opponent will kinda spin away from you a bit. But after that you have to learn to identifiy in a span of 1-2 seconds five different ranges of contact.

1st range bb will land
2nd range the first b will land and the second will wiff (sometimes 3kk lands at this range sometimes not...hard to test consistently though ><)
3rd range 3kk with land and not bb
4th range the second hit of 3kk will wiff and you'll loose the crumple stun but 236b (BE) will land
and the 5th range or 'no man's land' where nothing will land at the tippiest of the tip range.

But that brings me to my second point and another under utilized aspect of Pat-tactics... his Guard Crush game. B+K is a move I think every Pat player should make their opponent prove that they can consistently deal with. And this move is especially effective as an oki tool or in the case of the above match a VERY strong grab deterrent. Nothing says "Yeah, try to grab me again or hit me with a high" like a B+K into CE for over half their life bar. But I digress.

Pat has so many nifty guard damaging moves. B+K is not even his strongest GC move. 66B+K can break a guard in 5-6 hits. (If you get your opponents back against a wall the push back of the first hit will be canceled and the flip kick will add more damage to their guard.)
4B is another great tool, its safe, has a TC and deceptive range and guard crushes after only 9 hits. Its high but most people are so scared of 66b they rarely ever duck and I use this move when I land 44a at tippy tip range. And if they don't block it well that's a nice 8 frame advantage.
Another, much faster option is 6k. At i16 its fast, guard crushes in about 14 hits but catches step and like 4B is +8 frames on hit.
One that I don't use as often as I should is 2b+k. Breaks guard in 13 hits. On hit gives +4 frames and leaves me in FC leaving them to guess if its going to be wrA+B or an annoying 2k.... or a grab.
44b guard breaks in 10 hits. Kinda slow but a good and very safe wake up tool. Haven't found many uses for it yet, that and oddly 22b as most people I play tend to duck when I step or counter step with something faster.

But yeah, if you really learn to use 44a and all of its follow ups effectively, then between that and 66b. You'll have an opponent who is reluctant to step and reluctant to duck. Which leaves their guard ripe from the breaking.
 

Skillusionist

[08] Mercenary
A+B~[A+B] can break guard in 4-5 blocks ;)
Yeah A+B does great guard damage but as a move it is slow and the big shiny shield telegraphs this move more than a man in a short shorts awkwardly sucking a banana in a bar trying to pass himself off as a heterosexual. Anyone with any kind of Pat knowledge or experience knows to either step or duck when they see a wiffed aGI attempt and punish you HARD for even trying it.
 

ka_kui

[10] Knight
Yeah A+B does great guard damage but as a move it is slow and the big shiny shield telegraphs this move more than a man in a short shorts awkwardly sucking a banana in a bar trying to pass himself off as a heterosexual. Anyone with any kind of Pat knowledge or experience knows to either step or duck when they see a wiffed aGI attempt and punish you HARD for even trying it.
i mean the bug one.....that one have the speed of the A+B withouth charging and hit 2 times for like 90 damage, if you combo with 236K you can do like 120 damage withouth meter......and if you use after a backstep is easier to hit, when they whiff, or in okiseme they will guard ;)
 

Valcroy12

[09] Warrior

I can use some advice on Patroklos as I am new to him. This video was all I could really pull together from yesterday due to bad connection with the server and horrible luck. I can especially use some advice on Mitsuragi as he did blow me up pretty bad in the video.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
I'll give it to you straight. OK?

- When running in on an opponent, your first response should be run-in guard. Running in puts you at disadvantage, since the opponent can hit you before you get close. You can start running in and attacking or throwing when you start noticing that you run in and your opponent freezes up.
- Watch carefully when Mitsurugi's back is turned. BT B+K is i10, extremely fast. Block it and he's -12, fairly severe disadvantage. Or, you can try to backstep it and whiff punish.
- If Mitsurugi enters Mist stance, duck. Most attacks from Mist are low or high.
- It would be good for you to go into Practice mode and familiarize yourself with Mitsurugi's moveset, so there aren't any surprises. Here's a punishment list and here's some additional information.
- When you've got the enemy knocked down, most of the time you want to tap 66 (hold the last 6) to run forward and continue to apply pressure. Don't back off unless you have a good reason.

If you haven't already, when you have the time I'd suggest you read through this:

http://8wayrun.com/threads/the-basics-of-soulcalibur.15258/

If you have any other questions just hit me up.
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
7-3 is SCIV Siegfried x Sophie territory. 6:4 at best, she has a usable toolset vs pat I feel.
Also are ypu going to WGC Keysona?
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
Ok, 3B, iFC1B, 2A, 66A, 2A+B, her movement is sufficiently good, throws outdo his, with meter CE threat makes her ferocious at close range, even more so with 1.5+ as you can push GI CE threat. Just because Ivy struggles to zone him it doesn't make the matchup unwinnable, lol. Pat still needs to make reads. Granted you can space 3B to make it safe on block against her, but she still has the necessaries to force a guessing game.

I would have also mentioned 66B but you seem to have that covered in round 1 XD.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
What do you think Patroklos's players ?
A good performance!

Historically I've had problems with Ivy, getting on the inside is usually a hassle. Scud seems quite aggressive and willing to go inside first, I find that matchups like this become much easier if the opponent does not want to play keepaway.

It may be that I'm tired as I write this but I don't recall him using 3[A]/6[A] a lot, those are particularly annoying since they can't be block punished when spaced correctly. I'm accustomed to 3B/214B abuse as well, I don't see it here.

Just Guard after whiffing is brilliant stuff, good show.
 

LP

Premium Member

Patroklos - Ivy : 7 - 3

What do you think Patroklos's players ?
I don't think so. Pat struggles against pokes when he's on the inside most of the time. He doesn't have anything that's threatening and fast outside of 3b, honestly, so things become a guessing game of a fast poke/Throw/66b/66A most of the time when he's on offense. And, of course, Ivy has some really good quick pokes. There's nothing I can honestly see in this match that would make him dominate Ivy. He does out-damage her, but her CH game matches his damage easily and spaces him to reset it.

I honestly just think you're just better than Scud. He still plays Ivy like this is SC4 (backstep and try to harass you all day) and doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the system.

The match, in my opinion, is even. Both have their strengths and weaknesses in this match and can play around each others'.
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
^ that.
I think Pyrrha handles this matchup better than Patroklos and I'd call that a 6:4 to Pyrrha.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
#1) The first is the use of 44a. A move that is as under rated as it is deadly.

#2) 4B is another great tool,

#3) Another, much faster option is 6k.

.
I liked your post very much, but there's a few things I disagree with.

#1) Personally, in the case of 44A, I think people are only looking at 2 things: It's only -2 on block and can lead to high damage with a CE tacked on. But if you don't have meter, the combo's are extremely inconsistent. Sometimes all you can get is a BB, other times I've managed to get a 6BBB after it, which was pretty insane damage. But like I said, it's inconsistent as hell.

The thing is, there's a whole other side to this move that people don't seem to be considering. It's got shit for range, and at i20 frames, that's super slow for Pat. The combination of it having hardly any range and it being slow makes the application of this move rather limited IMO. 66B get's away with being i21 because at least that move has great range, not to mention it has much better combo potential than 44A.

Don't get me wrong, 44A is a good move and I use it sometimes, but I personally feel like people overestimate how good this move is.

#2) I don't see why 4B is any good at all. I don't think you should ever use this move, period. For one thing, it's slow, telegraphed, easily sidestepped, and a high. The only thing this move has going for it is the good range, but even then this move get's completely outclassed by either 66B or A+B. Sure, it TC's, but so does 66B, not to mention 66B is a mid, and 66B also leads to much higher damage due to combo's. 4B doesn't give you any combo's whatsoever. Please tell me if I'm missing something here.

#3) The problem with 6K is that it's also outclassed by other stuff. 4K is one frame faster, and it's a mid, as opposed to 6K being a high. It's not a bad move per se, but Pat has better stuff.

Everything else I agree with
 

WolfLoneThe

[10] Knight
I liked your post very much, but there's a few things I disagree with.

#1) Personally, in the case of 44A, I think people are only looking at 2 things: It's only -2 on block and can lead to high damage with a CE tacked on.
Its a safe, mid, stepkiller which can be used as a frame trap and over 100 damage with CE. Yes it hasn't got the best range but you're playing Pat, you should be close. Would you rather use 3A or 236A? Unsafe. AA or 6A? Bad range and high.

44A just stops all movement in pretty much 1K range which can get people to freeze up for mixup. I don't think its overestimated, I think its one of his best.
 

Syn_SC

[10] Knight
Yes but his 2A is complete ass so he still has an antistep problem as he has no reliable quick way to check the opponent safely. 44A is a super strong move, but it doesn't cover that hole in his game.
 

WolfLoneThe

[10] Knight
Yes but his 2A is complete ass so he still has an antistep problem as he has no reliable quick way to check the opponent safely. 44A is a super strong move, but it doesn't cover that hole in his game.
4K to an extent too but only stops step to one side I think. That and with his lack on range on pokes are his only holes which I can't complain about, given his strengths
 

Skillusionist

[08] Mercenary
I liked your post very much, but there's a few things I disagree with.

#1) Personally, in the case of 44A, I think people are only looking at 2 things: It's only -2 on block and can lead to high damage with a CE tacked on. But if you don't have meter, the combo's are extremely inconsistent. Sometimes all you can get is a BB, other times I've managed to get a 6BBB after it, which was pretty insane damage. But like I said, it's inconsistent as hell.

The thing is, there's a whole other side to this move that people don't seem to be considering. It's got shit for range, and at i20 frames, that's super slow for Pat. The combination of it having hardly any range and it being slow makes the application of this move rather limited IMO. 66B get's away with being i21 because at least that move has great range, not to mention it has much better combo potential than 44A.

Don't get me wrong, 44A is a good move and I use it sometimes, but I personally feel like people overestimate how good this move is.

#2) I don't see why 4B is any good at all. I don't think you should ever use this move, period. For one thing, it's slow, telegraphed, easily sidestepped, and a high. The only thing this move has going for it is the good range, but even then this move get's completely outclassed by either 66B or A+B. Sure, it TC's, but so does 66B, not to mention 66B is a mid, and 66B also leads to much higher damage due to combo's. 4B doesn't give you any combo's whatsoever. Please tell me if I'm missing something here.

#3) The problem with 6K is that it's also outclassed by other stuff. 4K is one frame faster, and it's a mid, as opposed to 6K being a high. It's not a bad move per se, but Pat has better stuff.

Everything else I agree with
@1
Firstly combos can be inconsistent but a lot of that inconsistency can be negated by player skill. You really don't have to learn all 5 ranges. You can only focus on when BB will work and when it will not. You get that down and you can just use BB and then use 236B. If you're not confident throw out 3k~k as it is safer on block and you can hit confirm the second k.
Secondly Pat's 44a =/= Asty's 44a and I think a lot of Pat's try to use his 44a as a keep out move. Something to throw out in the open hoping the opponent will run into it. Which, yes, the move is poop for range and its super easy to space out and whiff punish by a lot of characters. To me 44a is not really a step killer but its a vacuum. Your goal with Pat is to get in, get the advantage, and apply as much pressure as possible. Think is once I get steps 1 and 2 down, people know that Pat has piddley little T-Rex arms so his grab range pathetic and while 1k is effective people would rather eat 4-5 of them then one 66b so they'll step at disadvantage because eventually that vert will come and they can punish it hard. 44a pops this little idea out of their head. So if you use it for this purpose its speed is not an issue. Land 1k, that i20 becomes i18. Land aa, it becomes i14, Land 4k it becomes i15, land bb it becomes i16. This move also becomes a lot more useful with 66G tactics when you have anywhere from 8-13 frames advantage to discourage stepping... and after you've made stepping during disadvantage a bad idea you can start more actively attacking their guard gauge.

@2 & 3
4B's unpopularity makes it useful. Its a rarely scouted or expected. It's risky but again its best use is when you have advantage not out in the open. Like if I land 44a and don't get a crit, I throw this out.. also good after 4k. In theory your opponent should be able to react to the slow TC of 4b but the reality of it is that the TC from the often used 3b makes it a bit of a gamble. Telling if the initial TC will be one or the other is not easy especially if they aren't used to 4b so they won't be in any rush to duck it. And if you apply enough step pressure they'll be standing right in front of you holding guard. 4b breaks guard in 9 hits so that is a healthy chunk and its safe on block and actually helps Pat accomplish step 1 in his master plan closing distance. It not only has deceptive range but leaves you right in their faces. And at +8 frames on hit this is terrifying when they are trying to space and you TC under a high poke.

6k serves the same goal. Its his fastest move that does guard damage at i16. Its not much but its enough to be effective and it is decent at catching step. And like 4B it has deceptive range, is +8 frames on hit and safe on block. The key to both of these moves it to only use them in 44a range. To avoid 44a, the short range creates a trap. Yes they can backstep it but if you choose to 4b it'll catch them and reset the mix up and 66b will make them a little less brave about doing it again. And if they want to be brave enough and try to duck check well, most people don't duck Pat for a good reason.

Honestly the more often you use the same moves the more familiar your opponent becomes with them and can react/anticipate them. Using less common moves like 4b and 6k helps break up their expectations and gives them reason to pause to think 'If they'll use this what else would they use?" or "Why would he use that move?" and that in itself can create enough hesitation for you to take advantage of. Like I say in many games, just because it is the best option doesn't make it the ONLY option. Mix it up, learn to take advantage of as much of the skills available to a character, and avoid the 'top ten moves' mentality.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
Honestly the more often you use the same moves the more familiar your opponent becomes with them and can react/anticipate them. Using less common moves like 4b and 6k helps break up their expectations and gives them reason to pause to think 'If they'll use this what else would they use?" or "Why would he use that move?" and that in itself can create enough hesitation for you to take advantage of. Like I say in many games, just because it is the best option doesn't make it the ONLY option. Mix it up, learn to take advantage of as much of the skills available to a character, and avoid the 'top ten moves' mentality.
I used to think like this. There are still plenty of "good" moves left that you can still mix them up. There is no point in using "less-than-ideal" moves IMO. And yes, even though pat players don't use 4B, when i see it I almost always either sidestep it or duck. It is extremely telegraphed, and the reward you get from the move just isn't worth it. Like I said, 66B is better in every way imaginable, and even though it's i21, people don't seem to step it very often. A+B is telegraphed as shit as well, but at least it's an AGI, not to mention if you use the A+B (A+B) glitch, the guard damage FAR surpasses that of 4B.

Like I said I used to have the mindset of "use crappy moves to be unpredictable". It sounds good in theory, but in practice it just doesn't work like you want it to.