Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

WuHT said:
I don't want to ramble on and on, but if you do the BE at the last moment of 6BB/prepBB it functions exactly like what you're saying (giving a high damage option) if the opponent forgets to respect raph's tracking mid (and im' not talking about prepK). They won't duck immediately after blocking (or even eating) prepB(B) if you throw out a couple of BEs in nonCH situations. This is, of course, my experience.
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True, but the problem with a late Prep Bb(BE) is that it's much more devastating on block than 6BBB is - of course, this is assuming the opponent can JG the last hit, which is fairly easy to do - because it wastes meter and opens you up to punishment. With 6BBB, sure, you're leaving yourself open as well, but you're not giving up meter for it, and meter is what Raphael needs really do his damage when he can't find a wall. Not to mention, this is probably going to lead to much more damage than Prep Bb(BE) just because, hey, combos.

I need to stop now before I overhype myself and end up disappointed. A few more days and we shall see.
 
Somebody in that trailer thread confirmed that there were incoming Raphael buffs. Apparently some people already have their hands on a copy of the patch notes, but they didn't release any information as to what the buffs were. Not trying to overhype you guys or anything, but this is exciting stuff.
 
so it seems namco agreed raph needed abuff
Hoping they'll fix also 4B, BB on tip because as it is it whiffs :/

We still lack:
-A launcher with some sort of followup (see old 66A+B)
-a powerful mid that doesn t start from QS (main problem of 22B)

i think they'll give something for the first and probably forget the second....but having back the stun chain could improve raphael a lot....


@kowtow go tell namco to play phyrra now......it seems you are not so objective like you think after all....
 
Fendante said:
Considering that Prep K BE does good damage but is easily TCed unless noobs fall for the second high kick, shouldn't this move be improved?? It is guaranteed after a successful Prep 4 but currently Prep K can be stepped and the second kick is 0 on block and high. I don't see why the entire move could be mid mid with the second kick having the same animation as Prep K. Right now, the move only works against crouchers and late steppers.
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This move is also the way to go when you Guard Burst entering Prep from 66(B) or when you entering prep in anyway, near a wall. The thing that took me a while to adapt to is that the second kick whiffs if the first one is blocked on tip (yes, in case your opponent doesn't duck it anyway... and unfortunately I haven't faced people who ducked it, yet, including the AI).

WuHT said:
I use 6632B as a mixup from dash-grabs after 22A on CH or prepK on hit. The ONLY people who know to attack from eating 22A on NH are other raph players which is hilarious.
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Awesome tip.

darkfender said:
We still lack:
-A launcher with some sort of followup (see old 66A+B)
-a powerful mid that doesn t start from QS (main problem of 22B)
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What is wrong with the current 66A+B in relation to the old (which old) version? You can follow up, now, with BT B+K (may whiff if you laucnh at kiss range) or B (which sends the guy upwards a little and allow you threaten him as he gets up). And do you really expect them to add a launcher?

How about 236B as a powerful mid that doesn't require QS? And 66B, too.
____________

Guys, have you tried BT Prep 4 to aGI punishment? I'm doing it quite consistently in actual fights. It's so fun! Done it against the Very Hard AI. So wanna do vs players and imagine (or see, if it's offline) their WTF face, while I walk way in Prep, unscathed, like a boss.
 
1st: 6BB,BE on NH is far more risky than 6BB,B and open up a new option....if opponent try to step 6BB,B risks the 6BBBE maybe.
also its harder to JG.

66A+B was a great tool against grounded...
Now it whiffs for no reason even on the side it shoud Tech trap....and if opponent stand up attacking (happens a lot against raph) he risk eating at least a good amount of damage...

as it should be >.>

also we need something if we are at mid short range so opponent won t risk crouching for no reason -.-
Only option now is BB, 3B, and such....but opponent that can land a laucher for 120 dmg won t fear those....
and 22B with the QS startup is fairly reactable.
Boosting a little 3B in scIV style would be enough.

P.S: 6632B is slower than 66B and the latter is better on block :/ tried it but wasn t happy with it i prefer the old run B, run K or throw.

And i think als 4B nerf i not intentional...it doesn t make sense for a normal combo to whiff.
 
doesn't 236B blocked force the opponent to crouch ? The -12 isn't that bad, but I never like getting that close to my opponent, which isn't actually that bad because raph has 2A/3A/3K/44B/A+BA if things get too crazy up close. The only reason I don't like getting too close is I still have trouble judging raph's grab range (as its definately worse than SC4) and I hate whiffing grabs.
 
I am finding that the only moves I really need with Raph are
22B
236B
2A
3A
HIS STEP
44K <- because their face hits the gorram floor
 
His step is awesome once you find a sweet spot for the push back range on 3B that their verticals will whiff due to step, their fast horizontals will also whiff do to range (nobody thinks to do slow long range horizontals against raph).

In SC4, you could 3B against nightmare/siegfried and side step. If they 6A they'll still whiff due to 3B's pushback being damn awesome, and 22B them for good damage. It can happen in SC5, but you really need tip range 3B (then again you should have SE B them if you know they'll do a quick high interrupt).

But yeah I like raph's step only because his backstep from the previous game sucked. Now its the other way around, except I like my option out of step (22B / 22A) better than w/e I can get from backdashing and whiff baiting (236B ? 66B seems too slow).
 
NGKrush said:
I asked before, but didn't get an answer:
what are raphs best meter building moves?
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I don't really pay much attention to what moves increase meter quickly, but I'd assume quick hitting moves like 6BB or 3A would build it fast. I don't know how building meter works in this game though. Do some moves build more meter when blocked than other moves?
 
Fendante said:
Im not sure if I fully understood the rest of your post but doesn't 66A+B fully track rollers to Raph's left in this game??
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it should but it doesn t ...again whiffs randomly.



I agree a small buff to 3B would be nice. And doesn't Raph does have 3A, which is a fairly quick, short range mid, tracks to the left, and can hit crouchers??
Yes 3A is good but....does it even do damage? without a wall it only gains some space in CH but it really doesn t do anything :/

I mean its short and track only one side...why so weak on CH?


Btw, 236B is i20 and 66B is i23, so 236 is faster. 236B is just as good as a whiff punisher as it has always been.
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i used to use the move even to punish most stuff on scIV almost all of that magically turned from -20or -21 to -18 in scV u.u

But what happens when you are in throw range against an opponent with a fast laucher from crouch?
66B is too slow, 236B is also and can whiff (expecially against alexandras).
3B is not a good option...
We'd need a mid
-decent on block (i.e. not hugely unsafe)
-rewarding on CH
-with decent damage in NH

I mean a spammable safe mid.....because our BB is bad.

old 3B covered that role having a decent pushback.
New 3B is bad at tip because following BB would whiff -.-
Now best option is A+B,A but in NH it sucks bad.





Also getting back to the purpose of the topic i don t like 22B a lot.
Its slow because has QS in the command.....so i use it mostly as whiff punisher :| but almost never on block...
 
darkfender said:
it should but it doesn t ...again whiffs randomly.



I agree a small buff to 3B would be nice. And doesn't Raph does have 3A, which is a fairly quick, short range mid, tracks to the left, and can hit crouchers??
Yes 3A is good but....does it even do damage? without a wall it only gains some space in CH but it really doesn t do anything :/

I mean its short and track only one side...why so weak on CH?



i used to use the move even to punish most stuff on scIV almost all of that magically turned from -20or -21 to -18 in scV u.u

But what happens when you are in throw range against an opponent with a fast laucher from crouch?
66B is too slow, 236B is also and can whiff (expecially against alexandras).
3B is not a good option...
We'd need a mid
-decent on block (i.e. not hugely unsafe)
-rewarding on CH
-with decent damage in NH

I mean a spammable safe mid.....because our BB is bad.

old 3B covered that role having a decent pushback.
New 3B is bad at tip because following BB would whiff -.-
Now best option is A+B,A but in NH it sucks bad.





Also getting back to the purpose of the topic i don t like 22B a lot.
Its slow because has QS in the command.....so i use it mostly as whiff punisher :| but almost never on block...
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Darkfender, I'm not trying to insult you,but you seem to be the Debby downer of this SA and I don't like that SAs, especially of a
character that I use.
I appreciate the feedback and that your going in depth with Raphael and stuff, but you seem to be looking at the cons more...why?

First off Raphael B series is a basic mind game ..condition with BB and score BBB. BBB is also kind a difficult to step on reaction if your off guard. BB is most likely raphs best zoning tool on NH at mid range. The opponent will 1)forward step, 2) sidestep. 3) use a long range move which will be slower. These all put Raphael at advantage
because they take alot of frames. Of course for number 3 there are exceptions.

2B would be that mid

22B QS animation can be canceled with 662_8B. Same with all moves too.

Also I am sure the problems already acknowledge by your other posts are fixed...by someone.
 
Good stuff, can't see why 22B was buffed though; if we had no reason to use it before...

66A+G and CE give less meter.

Both BB BE do less guard damage and have stricter BE windows. (The last hit better be unstepable).

Prep: K stun on CH, does 10 less damage.
K BE does 10 more damage.


darkfennder said:
Yes A moves are good but....do they even do damage?
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Fixed.
Raph screams Amy!!! and I bust out laughing every time.
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Spam more prep A+B and laugh along, it pisses people off as much as prep BB BE.
 
optymuss said:
Darkfender, I'm not trying to insult you,but you seem to be the Debby downer of this SA and I don't like that SAs, especially of a
character that I use.
I appreciate the feedback and that your going in depth with Raphael and stuff, but you seem to be looking at the cons more...why?

2B would be that mid

22B QS animation can be canceled with 662_8B. Same with all moves too.

Also I am sure the problems already acknowledge by your other posts are fixed...by someone.
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i am not ....
I am just listing what doesn t work against opponent who knows raph....

as said 663B is less effective than a plain 66B IMHO
2B doesn t cover an optimal attack considering it doen t gain enough advantage nor deals noticeable damage that prevent opponent to duck for no reason.

I just posted thing raph needed to be balanced...not even high tier....but solid mid.
Also it seems so many good players knew raph was not viable and even namco probably did....whining as you say can make a bell ring but i don t think they would boost a character basing on complaints.
 
I try to be as objective as I can when reading darkfender's post (given his admitted limited command of the english language).

Otherwise you guys will spend more time flaming each other than discussing the topic on point. 66B is less damage than 6632B no matter how you slice it.
 
WuHT said:
Otherwise you guys will spend more time flaming each other than discussing the topic on point. 66B is less damage than 6632B no matter how you slice it.
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trade for advantage on block :Q___
its a win/win move
66B is great at short range.

Also i check raph's weaknesses mostly because if you perfectly know weaknesses you have lot more chances to adapt....
That always have been the most effective way to play raph i found.... (see avoid some things in some matchups expecially if you see opponent knows his tricks).
 
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