Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

the answer is YES, some french can JG consistently some moves online and offline (i met some of them online).
But its unusual to see things like fast attacks JGuarded.
Instead some friends of mine can....i really suspect there is some trick involved in SOME JG (triple guard and such) whereas for sure its just a good timing on others.
But they don t always punish corrrectly after JG.
As i said they play from months not weeks so they have a consistent advantage.

Also i saw some vids of jap and chinese players JGing AA and BB during tournaments.... O__o (not that many but still happened 2-3 times per match).
 
I was just curious if during WGC you saw it. I know a lot of people CAN do it, but it is different ina major tournament and wondered what you saw, since I didn't see any when watching WGC.
 
You didn't watch all the tournament ?
Keev and Akire, used it pretty efficiently.
But more often against opponent they already know before.
Just take a look at their matchs (off course, they are the two best French players at the moment, so JG is not that easy under pressure for common players).

Keev was talking about the importance of JG in SCV, in a post interview.
He was saying that during the tournament, he couldn't used Nightmare BB against Akire, because even if BB is safe in guard, Akire could have JG with a 100% success the second B.

They are at a level where they stop throwing full strings, in fear of a JG, just to be safe.
Because, if you can't use JG against a random single move, it's easy on a string where the timing never change.

It's not because you won't see it, that it's not usable.
In the final, the rare times Keev used it, make Eggmaster quickly understand that he can't thow his full moveset out of the blue.
 
That's what it's gonna come down to first. Predictable strings with no variation on the timing, good players will learn to jG that. I'm already doing it on specific moves in matches, and I'm not exactly a technical wizard. Fast strings like staple A,A and B,B moves will remain difficult to jG reliably, but slower moves like Nightmare's B,B aren't in that category. It's worth learning which strings a character has that you can consistently jG, just like it's worth knowing which moves you can punish normally.
 
I see what you were saying Kowtow about jG pyrrha's 66B BE, it's pretty easy to do, if you do the jG BEFORE you think you should do it. Apparently that's the best way to get it.
Sidestepping to the left i.e her RIGHT avoids the second hit completely though. Might be easier for some.

Finally stop being cheap and be a premium supporter so I can see that ass in your avatar bounce :)
 
JodorowskyVIII said:
Nothing mid-screen and it can't Ring Out even on CH.
3A Wall splat on Counter Hit, so you can combo after it with "A+BA, 66A+B".
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On wall splat you can do another 3a , 4 b, 3b A+B+K . That sucks that he gets nothing free in the open field after you hit a 3a counter hit
 
Game-Fiend said:
On wall splat you can do another 3a , 4 b, 3b A+B+K . That sucks that he gets nothing free in the open field after you hit a 3a counter hit
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The problem with 3A in combo is that add a tremendous amount of Damage reduce.
The "3B~Bb(BE)" finisher is 71dmg, the "A+BA, etc" follow up is 72dmg and the CE is 76dmg.
And all of those will do less damage if you add a 3A.

I don't think 3A CH sux on open field.

Like KowTow said :
KowtowRobinson said:
Keep in mind though that 3A on CH makes 3b unsteppable, not guaranteed but they can't move. So it puts you A) at a huge frame advantage, and B) at his best range.
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An unsteppable 3B, plus enough frame advantage to regain complete control of the space, is a really good thing. (BB is unsteppable too)
There some characters you don't want to stay close, and 3A become a really great interrupt tool in those match-up.
It can really help our defensive game.

And if you're like me, you can act agressively after it, with a dash and a mix-up.
It often surprise people.
I like to do that when i want to play risky.
Quick dash, and use a throw or 3A, and sometimes a A+BA or a 8A+B (Mid anti-sidestep safe in all match-up), in order to bait a counter.
But you can use whatever you want.
Nothing is guaranted, but it can change the pace of the battle in your favor.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
That's what it's gonna come down to first. Predictable strings with no variation on the timing, good players will learn to jG that. I'm already doing it on specific moves in matches, and I'm not exactly a technical wizard. Fast strings like staple A,A and B,B moves will remain difficult to jG reliably, but slower moves like Nightmare's B,B aren't in that category. It's worth learning which strings a character has that you can consistently jG, just like it's worth knowing which moves you can punish normally.
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So you can basically red jG? I was under the impression you had to be at full neutral for a length of time before you could jG?
 
Real_Bojack said:
So you can basically red jG? I was under the impression you had to be at full neutral for a length of time before you could jG?
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Something like 28 frames of NOT holding guard before you can activate a jG window. My understanding is that it's reaaaaally difficult to do this for a simple B,B but it's really easy for bigger moves. Start with Pyrrha's 66B EX and go from there, since that's such a crucial move to jG. Letting her have that move makes her even more beastly. Do not let her have that move.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
Something like 28 frames of NOT holding guard before you can activate a jG window. My understanding is that it's reaaaaally difficult to do this for a simple B,B but it's really easy for bigger moves. Start with Pyrrha's 66B EX and go from there, since that's such a crucial move to jG. Letting her have that move makes her even more beastly. Do not let her have that move.
Click to expand...

Do frames during block stun count? I can't think of many threatening strings with 28 frames between hits.
 
hotnikkelz said:
.... pyrrha's 66B BE ...
Sidestepping to the left i.e her RIGHT avoids the second hit completely though. Might be easier for some.
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I know this sounds funny, but as long as I input 22 on 1P or 88 on 2P (basically pressing down to QS) side it works 95% of the time. I have never successfully had a 88 input on 1p or 22 on 2p (pressing up to QS) to avoid pyrrha's 2nd hit of 66B BE.

Maybe my thumb is faster or something, but you just want to input it as early as possible while holding the 2nd downward tap.

22 on 1P gives you a properly aligned 22B combo. 88 on 2P gives you a misaligned crumple.
 
well now i tried all options....
How do you get out of Xiba 6BK etc string?
Its steppable ONLY if you step the first hit (i.e you step the first and step again the second).

If you block the first hit you cannot evade the second kick, nor aGI it.
It rapes the guard bar.
Any i11-12 horizontal will interrupt the string after you blocked the first hit
Unfortunately raph has only an i13 2A that hit simultaneously and that is in xiba's favor.

For the first time i cannot see how to win even if opponent spams only this move (excluding JG).
Any idea?

Second question:
excluding tech traps...what's the purpose of 66B+K? it doesn t even deals damage to the guard -___- despite being one of the best tools raph had for the CF game in scIV.
 
ups i confused xiba 6BK with raph 66B+K my fault....
so raph 66B+K DOES damage to the guard...good last time i checked there were any number in guard damage column...

I saw its really easy to force opponent to block it

Aside it that xiba move is really messed up...i mean what s the point of making a quite fast move that will kill you on block?
I will start practicing JG then but i think it should be fixed anyway.
 
JodorowskyVIII said:
Raphaël is really JG dependant in defense...
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I strongly disagree with that, he has way more options than others. From his stellar step to prep4 to 44B to SE to autoGIs to 4A and his B+K this dude has the stuff. We just need to find exactly where each of them will work, and work well.

For eg does 4A stop Kilik's 6BK? how about 44B? I dunno, but we can check
 
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