Raphael Tournament Discussion

Today it was the First day of WGC in Cannes, France.

You can see the streaming of the 3vs3 team here :
It begin at 8h05m.

http://fr.twitch.tv/armshouse/b/308832642

At 8H26m, Team "Beur Land" is Gohan team, the only Raphael you will be able to see on the stream.
He played at 8h36m50s against Kerrigan, one of the few people who contribute to the official guide for Natsu.

He is a soul calibur Veteran and a strong player, but Natsu is really strong.
8h39m : This moment is soooo painfull to look at. >_<
 
Too much 3(B) Gohan! lol

Natsu can shut down all his options on block, against characters like that you gotta just use safe regular stuff to zone her out and see if she runs into anything on her own.
 
See I ain't even gotta say nothin, lol. Respek knuckles for WuHT.
1SDY


Hudathan said:
Too much 3(B) Gohan! lol

Natsu can shut down all his options on block, against characters like that you gotta just use safe regular stuff to zone her out and see if she runs into anything on her own.
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And considering she needs counter hits or bombs to do her real damage, she WILL run into things on her own. A patient Raph can have a lot of success with this matchup, as long as you can block/avoid Taki bombs. (yes they are STILL Taki bombs)

If the Natsu player gets cautious and turtley because you aren't eating her CH damage, then that's perfect. Time her out if you have to.
 
Every time Gohan spaced her out with 22B and punished her stuff on block, he got ahead in the round. And then he would walk Raph forward with 3(B) on block and hand her chunks of life for free.

I think the game is still early enough where Namco's mind job on the Raph players are still in effect. They made all three moves in SE so good that it's counter-intuitive to want to use his simpler stuff. SE has definitely overshadowed some real buffs to the traditional Raph game in the form of new moves like 22B, 22A as well as his overall increased damage options. I think once everyone calm down a bit and go back to his spacing game we'll find that he can actually put out some pretty decent threat with some pretty simple stuff. I can't think of another time when all Raph needed to do was touch you 3 times with a safe long range move in a round to win it.
 
3B is -14, and prep~BB is -14 too...
It means we can't use prep and 3B at all, in order to install a pressing ?
It's hard to restrain your instinct when you want to rushdown.
I clearly understand now that i mustn't be reckless and act like i play nightmare, when i got just a little advantage...

If i score a knockdown, must i go to the extend to poke from max range with 2k my oponent in the floor, until they recover, and then strategically run away ?
Feel like a really French tactic... Ho wait... I'm French, it's totally legit. Haha. :D

Joke aside.
Don't forget to follow the competition tomorrow (here the schedule http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/feb/17/world-game-cup-2012-live-stream-schedule-and-details/ ).
In 18hours, on the main stage, it will be the Top 8 Solo.
I really hope Gohan will made it out of the pools.
 
Hudathan said:
Too much 3(B) Gohan! lol

Natsu can shut down all his options on block, against characters like that you gotta just use safe regular stuff to zone her out and see if she runs into anything on her own.
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Hudathan said:
Every time Gohan spaced her out with 22B and punished her stuff on block, he got ahead in the round. And then he would walk Raph forward with 3(B) on block and hand her chunks of life for free.

I think the game is still early enough where Namco's mind job on the Raph players are still in effect. They made all three moves in SE so good that it's counter-intuitive to want to use his simpler stuff. SE has definitely overshadowed some real buffs to the traditional Raph game in the form of new moves like 22B, 22A as well as his overall increased damage options. I think once everyone calm down a bit and go back to his spacing game we'll find that he can actually put out some pretty decent threat with some pretty simple stuff. I can't think of another time when all Raph needed to do was touch you 3 times with a safe long range move in a round to win it.
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Agreed, as good as his buttons out of SE are, 22B is still his real moneymaker in this game, since he can use it from a range he's comfortable with. The range of SE K, good as that move may be, isn't his ideal range.
 
22A does guarantee something, it guarantees that you get to use 22B and 33B. You can't expect every single move to give great reward, sometimes utility is more than enough.
 
Not even in that order, but if you don't throw that move out once in a while your 8wr game will be incomplete, and Raph's 8wr game is actually some of his strongest stuff at long range as long as you use all three of those moves properly.
 
My personal style with Raphael is quite aggressive.

Raphael´s OKI is alright, a bit unsafe but it can lead to some great results and really locking down your opponent.

When i score a knock down i usually go for 22_88B / 11K / 66B+K / 66A+G / B+G.

Throws on OKI are a great way to train your opponent to duck and they really dont want to do that because your 22_88B hits a ton if it connects, you can mix up stuff if you make the animations look like the same.
for example when im on oki i tend to do side step every time regardles of the fact if im just going to input the throw.
This way they cant read your animations.

11K leaves Raphael on neutral ground which isnt that great when you think about the fact you can be stepped and ducked so i usually go for 2A/66B or if i predict they are going for fast moves to beat you out just GI.

66B+K is a great roll catch but only tracks to one side (cant remember which right now) but it gives you a stun and another OKI.

I cant express how important it is for you to use throws with Raphael, they are great for steps and really make your foes reluctant to step .

As for 6Bb.BE against a scrub its a great way to add GB pressure but with a little practice the last hit is easy to JG and will just get you punished.

Also a good safe and reliable roll catch is 66A+B sometimes it also gets people ducking before they can react and gives great damage compared to the fact that its safe on block.

Then ofcourse there are the obvious RO potential of Raphael,
if you get a GB on the edge of level just finish them off with 66K.

IF you get Raphaels AB to hit you might concider using 3A for a frame trap its safe on block and scores a wall splat with CH, once youve trained your opponent to be weary after your AB on hit you can move on to using slow tracking moves like throws and such.

I think thats all i can conjure up right now. hope it helps.
 
Oh yeah a small note regarding Astaroth.

For some reason when you get 3B on block you are to far away to connect with prep2 K.

Also if you want a relatively safe way to stop your prep string you can go with Prep4~Prep2 A
just try to get it to hit and you are on neutral ground and if you hit you have a great +8 advantage. Great time to mix in your throws which now come out as i9 and if they try to duck you will just mix up with 22_88B which is i10 right after hitting them.

Also against Natsu never go for Prep 2/4 if the move that transitions into them was blocked, you will just get hit hard as hell. Dare i say one of the worst match ups for Raphael?
 
Keep in mind with 66B+K only catching one direction of sideroll, 66a+b catches the other side pretty well. You're giving your opponent A LOTTTTT of credit if you assume they know this. It's definitely worth using both, they do good damage on ground hit.
 
I'm going to my first tournament this weekend.
any raph specific tips on fighting:
-nightmare
-ivy
-patrokolos

tnx
 
all i know about nightmare is that if you block his 3AA you get your 3(B) combo.
 
NGKrush said:
I'm going to my first tournament this weekend.
any raph specific tips on fighting:
-nightmare
-ivy
-patrokolos

tnx
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You can 2A Nightmare out of Grim Stride every time as long as you block his main entry moves like 1A or 66K, just don't waste the advantage on hit by doing something bad and get hurt anyway. You can also get 3(B) series on most of his stance options on block if you're just patient, the trade-off being he could simply not do any options and go for ankle grabs/wrB's. Don't try to aggressively poke at him TOO much, take guaranteed damage on punishment, and watch his meter.

Fight Ivy at mid range, avoid long and short range if possible. Block her 214B's and punish with 3(B) series. Don't get spammy with verticals and give her more ways of getting to you. Her regular damage is not high if you just be careful.

Against Pat, just don't make any bad whiffs and use Raph's superior movement to stay away from him. Make him get hit on his way in to try and apply his close range stuff. Plug his 66A BE into training mode and practice stepping the second hit to either direction. The timing is very lenient and you get to punish with 22B. You can 6BB his 3B pretty easily on block at any range, plug that into training mode too and get used to seeing it. Other than that just break B, move well, and block well.
 
Good advice, against Ivy also practice avoiding her EX attacks. Link made good use of them at Winter Brawl yesterday. Her 1B EX guarantees a hit if you block it, you can step it to one side (left?) or JG the second hit, as it's on a set timing. Her 22B doesn't guarantee damage but it's +12 with her in back turned state. It's mid,mid too, but also comes out with a set timing. If you can show the Ivy player that you're not afraid of these moves, you're already in their head.

If you don't show that you can beat these moves, a smart Ivy is just gonna keep forcing them on you. They're not going to respect you and assume they got away with one, you have to TAKE that respect from them. Nobody proved to Link that they could handle those EX moves reliably, so he used that to his advantage and won the whole thing.
 
But those moves are so scary kowtow :'(
Block the 1B BE and she gets the 6K air grab combo
And the other one, well, I just can't see it coming from when she does just 22B lol
 
Raph can actually step Ivy's 1B EX to either side. I was testing with Cervy the other day who can apparently only step it one way. HOWEVERRRR it's been causing that stupid 22B > 3B whiff when I step to the right. Step left and it usually gives you the full combo. Play around with it some in practice mode, and if you're not confident in the 3B landing, substitute super instead. You'll only need to do this once or twice before she stops burning her meter on that move anyway, so it's worth the full bar imo.

Not being able to jG her 22B isn't as big of a deal, her BT mixup isn't that scary. Actually not many characters have really dangerous BT mixups now lol, can't think of anyone that has a 2a/2k that trips anymore.
 
Hudathan said:
Block her 214B's and punish with 3(B) series..
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You'll have to settle for 6BB as that move is -14 on block.

To offset this, I humbly suggest B+K against the 2nd hit of 1B (BE) of Ivy. Do you feel like CE, back grab, or the 2B+K series is up to you.

Being able to 236B if you block her super crouch sweep kick is pretty awesome too.
 
After Winter Brawl I gotta say, you gotta be on point with Raph, for reals, but if you can hit those CHs (6B, 1K etc.) you can do well. I was a bit salty cause I got knocked out of the tournament because I kept hitting 22B off axis and had 3B, and A+B straight up whiff, which is no good. If I could have 1 thing patched for Raph, it would be to guarantee both of these moves after 22B - Raph doesn't get a lot of damage, you can't drop any when you get it.

He is fun as shit to play, though, for sure. You gotta pay attention, break throws, block lows, punish as best as you can...focus.
 
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