Raphael Video Discussion

[Solid_Altair]

Ew...Japanese Raphael...

Good videos though. All of my attention has been on ZWEI as of late, but these videos remind me of how fun he is to play. I guess when you step an attack, we're supposed to go for 33KB now? Is 22B even useful anymore when you're in range for 33KB?

Yes. 22B is still useful, even without meter for CE or a wall. 33KB is only 40 damage. With the appropriate follow up, you can get 44 or 63 from 22B, meterless. 33KB is still useful against super tech crouching moves that duck 22B.

And let us remember 66(B) may still be used as a punishment after stepping, to lead to a solid 56 dmg.

I'm thinking of adopting ZWEI as my alternate. The other candidates are Ezio and Viola. For now it has been only Raph for me.

I'm glad the videos reminded you of Raph's fun :)

Leonyx, what's wrong with Japanese Raphael?? Yasunori Masutani has been voicing him since SC2 and he does a great job imo. But I do like the English one as well.

Okay, I found out 11BB is consistent after 22B. Good to know, I'll go with that. And Solid Altair, after watching your videos, I think I like your Raph style most out of all the Raph videos Ive seen because it's similar to mine but you do some things way more effectively than I do right now. Do you have any other videos I can watch and learn from??

I like Raph's voices almost equally. But I like most Japanese voices better, with a few exceptions like Ezio (the biggest) and Sieg. Cervy is kinda like Raph - both are very good.

I still think 11BB will whiff, by overreaching, if the target is very near. I suggest you test it out up close, before you go trigger happy with 11BB. And remember 66(B).

I'm glad you like my Raph and that is similar to yours. I like how he's not all about 22B, now; because I like variety and I'm really trigger happy/biased towards it. So, I think the Patch went my in terms of Raph's mirror matches, at least.

Which things do I seem to do more efficiently than you? Maybe I can tell you if they're lucky or have some logic to me. And if there is some logic, maybe telling you will be useful somehow.

As for more videos, my channel has more videos than the ones I post here. The ones bellow (the older ones) the one with Talim (as a CaS of Natsu) are pre-patch. The ones after it are post-patch. I still have a bunch of new vids to upload - my latest session vs Zorrito's Ivy was veeeery good. 10 - 9 for him.

 

[Kirio4]

i like the battles...and his voice in japanese is sexy~~~XDDD i love my Raph

 

[Leonyx]

Leonyx, what's wrong with Japanese Raphael?? Yasunori Masutani has been voicing him since SC2 and he does a great job imo. But I do like the English one as well.

I'm sure he's a great voice actor and all, but I've grown accustomed to the English voice. I can't pick up on tone and feeling from the Japanese voice so he doesn't sound classy, sophisticated, and arrogant like the English one does to me.

Yes. 22B is still useful, even without meter for CE or a wall. 33KB is only 40 damage. With the appropriate follow up, you can get 44 or 63 from 22B, meterless. 33KB is still useful against super tech crouching moves that duck 22B.

And let us remember 66(B) may still be used as a punishment after stepping, to lead to a solid 56 dmg.

I forgot about the CE follow up. I guess all they really did was take out the damage you get off of 22B, huh? At least without meter. The follow up is A+B, correct?

 

[Solid_Altair]

Below are a few more videos. Keep in mind the Huntress Sweep, Ivy's 22K (I think) can be punished by 236B, on block, but you gotta be spot on. I was using FC3B because I was confident on my reactions. Also, I throw some isolated 6Bs in some of these videos. They are actually wrong inputs for 236B.

And the fights vs Ivy were among other fights - more importantly: happened after other fights - against the same player. The reason he would sometimes block vs Prep was that I had Prep K him a few times in previous fights. Basically, the Raph vs Ivy fights are within a inter-fight mind game, in which I was able to open Raph's stance game against a guy who knew how to tech the usual Prep stuff.

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[Solid_Altair]

I forgot about the CE follow up. I guess all they really did was take out the damage you get off of 22B, huh? At least without meter. The follow up is A+B, correct?

You can actually cause more damage without meter, thanks to damage buff in 22B, but it's hard. You'll need to be close and in a good angle to land A+BA for 63 damage (1 more dmg than the old BE-less follow up). And against a wall, the old combos will work just the same, but with a little more damage, because of 22B damage buff. The biggest issue is that you can't BE from it. The CE is OK, more expensive and causing just a little bit more damage than the old BE version.

And yes, the follow up to 66(B) I meant was A+B. If you enter SE by accident, SE K won't be bad. If you don't enter Prep, 66B+K, 1B, 66A+B and 11BB will all connect, I think. Though the biggest damage is from the Prep A+B follow up. I love it! The Aiming Shaft looks so freaking twisted!

 

[Leonyx]

You can actually cause more damage without meter, thanks to damage buff in 22B, but it's hard. You'll need to be close and in a good angle to land A+BA for 63 damage (1 more dmg than the old BE-less follow up). And against a wall, the old combos will work just the same, but with a little more damage, because of 22B damage buff. The biggest issue is that you can't BE from it. The CE is OK, more expensive and causing just a little bit more damage than the old BE version.

And yes, the follow up to 66(B) I meant was A+B. If you enter SE by accident, SE K won't be bad. If you don't enter Prep, 66B+K, 1B, 66A+B and 11BB will all connect, I think. Though the biggest damage is from the Prep A+B follow up. I love it! The Aiming Shaft looks so freaking twisted!

Oh, I was talking about the follow up for 22B. I meant A+BA. My mistake. You answered the question anyways, so it's fine.

I did like to use 66(B) before the patch. It's got nice range, it's safe on block, and it leads to an easy damage combo if you hit it.

 

[Mandritti]

I forgot about the CE follow up. I guess all they really did was take out the damage you get off of 22B, huh? At least without meter. The follow up is A+B, correct?

No, there's one further difference. The push to the corner. The Prep BB combo basically gets you to the ring boundary, at which Raph is no slouch in this game. He doesn't get that now.

66B, 66B+K true combo. If someone can tell me what the rules are for making 1B hit a collapsing opponent, I would kill three men to hear it.

Serious flowcharting against Ivy, Leonyx, but that player doesn't do anything about it.
Well acquitted in the Natsu match.

 

[Leonyx]

No, there's one further difference. The push to the corner. The Prep BB combo basically gets you to the ring boundary, at which Raph is no slouch in this game. He doesn't get that now.

66B, 66B+K true combo. If someone can tell me what the rules are for making 1B hit a collapsing opponent, I would kill three men to hear it.

Serious flowcharting against Ivy, Leonyx, but that player doesn't do anything about it.
Well acquitted in the Natsu match.

I'm not the one playing those matches. You got to give the awesome gameplay credit to Solid_Altair.

You make a good point about the combo though, Mandritti.

 

[Solid_Altair]

No, there's one further difference. The push to the corner. The Prep BB combo basically gets you to the ring boundary, at which Raph is no slouch in this game. He doesn't get that now.

66B, 66B+K true combo. If someone can tell me what the rules are for making 1B hit a collapsing opponent, I would kill three men to hear it.

Serious flowcharting against Ivy, Leonyx, but that player doesn't do anything about it.
Well acquitted in the Natsu match.

I agree about the RO opportunities from the old 22B. At least we can still use the BE in other ways, including 4(B).

1B tracks to Raph's right. If they fall in that angle and you have time to them with the strike, it will connect. The problem is it doesn't seem reliable when the opponent falls straight.

Can you please use alternative expressions on "flowcharting" and "acquitted"? Not even Google helped me enough with those ._.

And these fights are some of the 19 fights I had with the Ivy player. He actually won 10 to 9. When it seems like "he doesn't do anything about it" it is probably a matter of me getting my share of luck/anticipation in the oki. Anyways... if the videos make him look bad, don't take this impression seriously. I'd say we're in about the same level.

He has an outstanding oki, btw... gets a lot of perfects against me.

 

[miyodarius]

I still think 11BB will whiff, by overreaching, if the target is very near. I suggest you test it out up close, before you go trigger happy with 11BB.

I found that out in a match today. yea, too close 11BB will whiff. No problem. As of late, when I'm close while hitting 22B, I do a simple 2A to stand them back up, and go for a grab.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Well, your step and movement are really impressive. You also seem to use SE and Prep 4 comfortably and well. Right now, due to fear of risk, Im not using those very often...but I should try to incorporate them more into my gameplay. You also use 22A antistep tool effectively. It's -12 but safe from a distance (only 16 damage but good 10 frames on CH...Im fine with it). Good use of 33KB/BE and 66B, 66B is great after stepping and it can TC highs. Ive also noticed you are more aggressive with Prep moves, even putting on pressure on block. Maybe it's okay for me to use Prep even when guarded, to try to bait for counter hits and potential Prep BBB stun. There were also times in the videos when you stayed at advantage really well with simple good moves. 2A ftw!!!

Your analysis pretty much nailed everything. There might be a few things worth adding on my end:

The horizontal movement has a lot to do with knowing when you can step, i.e. after using the moves that put you in just a small disadvantage when the enemy blocks them. I've been improving on this aspect lately.

22A is important, similarly to 3A, because on CH it'll give you +10 and the enemy won't be able to step your 6B or 3B. These two moves are some of the best ways of setting up your verticals against the guys who know they should step Raph a lot. Throwing verticals willy nilly against these guys will get you owned.

Setting up your verticals also happens as a mind game: after they eat many horizontals they'll stop stepping all the time. This isn't easy to enforce, though, cause most of Raph's horizontals cause little damage and almost none cause KND. So, they'll need to eat lots and lots of horizontals to start to fear them, so you can use your verticals and really get into Raph's powerful linear game.

And your Prep BB (vertical) can be set up by the 10 advantage of entering Prep on hit. They can't step it. Actually, many of all your Prep entries should be as extension of your punishment by 6B(B), 3(B)B(B) or 3(B)A(B). So, a good Prep entry also discourages steps and sets up your verticals.

The aggressiveness in Prep against good anti-Raph players must be set up by Prep K, when you enter Prep on hit. After they eat a few of these, they won't try to tech you all the time.

In order to improve in the use of Prep 4, try to condition yourself into a simple rule of thumb: when you enter Prep on Block or Whiff, use Prep 4. This is actually the appropriate standard action. After you're able to do it, you can start to mix things up very comfortably.

 

[Solid_Altair]

I found that out in a match today. yea, too close 11BB will whiff. No problem. As of late, when I'm close while hitting 22B, I do a simple 2A to stand them back up, and go for a grab.

Not a bad idea. Maybe I'll try it out. Guess it's likely that the opponent will relax and not even try to escape :)

 

[Solid_Altair]

A few more videos. Now I'm out. Gotta play again.

The fight vs Algol was unremarkable, but I hardly fight Algol and I hardly fight A1 80%+ guys... so I thought: wth... I suggest you give it a low priority and/or just watch it if you really wanna see some Raph vs Algol action, even if not very good.

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[Mandritti]

1B tracks to Raph's right. If they fall in that angle and you have time to them with the strike, it will connect. The problem is it doesn't seem reliable when the opponent falls straight.

thanks, now if I could judge it in real time...

Can you please use alternative expressions on "flowcharting" and "acquitted"? Not even Google helped me enough with those ._.

And these fights are some of the 19 fights I had with the Ivy player. He actually won 10 to 9. When it seems like "he doesn't do anything about it" it is probably a matter of me getting my share of luck/anticipation in the oki. Anyways... if the videos make him look bad, don't take this impression seriously. I'd say we're in about the same level.

Acquitted is one o' them vacuous words that lets me compliment you but it doesn't mean anything.
Flowcharting I mean you were playing with a flowchart. Flowchart gameplay. But you've explained that, too - an illusion created by the sample space of the video.

 

[WuHT]

Here is my understanding of 1B against crumpling opponents and hopefully this won't confuse you greater.

All descriptions are referenced to the original 1p vs 2p position as the axis of "reference".

Crumple animations seem be aligned to be either 0,90,180 or 270 degrees, and if Raph steps to an intermediate angle, the computer will arbitrarily align the crumple in a one of the 2 closest angles.

For example, if Raphael steps 40 degrees (with reference to the opponent standing still) the crumple will either be aligned to the 2p's 0 degree or 90 degree (ie aligned forward or up for instance). In this case, if the opponent crumples at an angle lower than what raph actually stepped, that means that they'll crumple while falling to raph's right. If the crumple angle becomes higher (ie raph steps slightly like 30 degrees but they crumple aligned at the full 90 degrees) then they'll crumple falling to raph's left.

Obviously A+BA and 1B are superior to crumple to raph's right, and 66A+B is superior to raph's left. If they are perfectly aligned (ie you hit them with 662B) then 1B and A+BA are clearly inferior to 66A+B which catches left AND forward crumple alignments). You can't really react to it, but you can increase your chances if you know your habits of deep stepping vs light stepping combined with the direction you're stepping in.

Ie: If I want to increase my chances of A+BA/1B connecting, I would shallow step 88 or mid-step 22. If i want 66A+B to connect reliably, I would shallow step 22 or deep step 88.

 

[Mandritti]

Here is my understanding of 1B against crumpling opponents and hopefully this won't confuse you greater.

All descriptions are referenced to the original 1p vs 2p position as the axis of "reference".

Crumple animations seem be aligned to be either 0,90,180 or 270 degrees, and if Raph steps to an intermediate angle, the computer will arbitrarily align the crumple in a one of the 2 closest angles.
[...]

Okay. I can work with that.

I need to figure out why my uses of 8A+B do hit and do trigger the GI, in case that's useful to someone else. But my opinion despite this success, is that 8A+B is a trap. Don't use it. There's probably something better I could do and I just get mad lucky or do reads (which aren't reproducible). nonetheless, if someone for once gets recording equipment to A&C world, my SCV style could make it to the air waves.
4A+B on the other hand... I will try to bait 2As with all my might now.

 

[Gojira]

I still think 11BB will whiff, by overreaching, if the target is very near. I suggest you test it out up close, before you go trigger happy with 11BB. And remember 66(B).

It doesn't even have to be close. I tried this combo on day 1 of the patch and I recall the second B was being teched every time. Unless there is some angle where it can't be teched at all.

 

[miyodarius]

It doesn't even have to be close. I tried this combo on day 1 of the patch and I recall the second B was being teched every time. Unless there is some angle where it can't be teched at all.

haven't had that problem at all. in most cases they will tech as soon as the 1st hit connects, not allowing them to escape the 2nd hit.

 

[Solid_Altair]

@Solid Altair: Thanks for your help. What do you think of B+K?? Useful in anyway?? It only dodges single verticals and has a very small active window. Do you use it??

You are most welcome. I use it. Good on small disadvantages and requires a lot of anticipation. Since it's quite a big bamble, I suggest you try it when you have an HP advantage. As long as the enemy doesn't catch on to the fact that he can duck the back throw, the risk-reward should be OK. And even if he does catch on, maybe you can mix him up with one of the side cantarellas.

But my opinion despite this success, is that 8A+B is a trap.

It's hardly the best thing you can do in a given situation. But it's a little good in many ways. Kinda like a defensive, conservative option. I use it even to perform oki. A low risk - low reward attack.

Violent Blood, 33A, is similar in regards to not being the best thing to do in any given situation, but being likely to be a little good in many ways. Although 33A really isn't good enough, imo. If there is a move I'd like buffed, it's this one.

It doesn't even have to be close. I tried this combo on day 1 of the patch and I recall the second B was being teched every time. Unless there is some angle where it can't be teched at all.

When I told him to test up close I meant to see it doesn't work up close xD Guess it was ambiguous. I haven't strictly tested ukemiing the second B. I've never seen anyone (includin the AI) escape it, either. I'll check it out.

(And we're talking about 11BB, btw.)

 

[Solid_Altair]

8A+B may be very useful against Viola, cause she is often at kiss range.