Reversal edge mechanic master post by Trace_afj

Artilust said:
The jury is out on that. I dont know how likely I am to believe that you can mash out a RE during CH or NCC. Sounds unlikely.
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Artilust said:
The jury is out on that. I dont know how likely I am to believe that you can mash out a RE during CH or NCC. Sounds unlikely.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=CuRyOuNy3cE

@8:17

It's not instant, but unless that move Mitsu used (I have no clue what his inputs are) has very little stun even on counterhit on backturn, Sophitia Reversal Edge'd out of it way too fast. Certainly fast enough that a lot of mix-ups will now become null against Reversal Edge.
 
Artilust said:
The jury is out on that. I dont know how likely I am to believe that you can mash out a RE during CH or NCC. Sounds unlikely.
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The window of RE's parry seems to be ridiculously low, 3 frames at most, I wouldn't be surprise if it's a 1 frame window parry.
 
It does say that Mitsu scored a CH, before what looks like a natural or CH combo. And Sophie pulled out the RE earlier than what I'd be used to people being able to do anything in that situation. BTW Fallen It looked like a variation of his 6A,A
 
If that thing gets people out of stun then it's actually a worse system than anything in DOA because in DOA you have long string delay options and hi-counter throws specifically created to punish hold spammers.

Delayed attacks are a very character specific thing in soul calibur, so whats going to combat RE spam here?

This is what happens when you shoehorn game changing mechanics into a long-running franchise with bad players as the primary benefactor rather than good ones.
 
Someone can check how many frames does the RE's parry takes to be active? I would do it myself but don't know how to , the clip we're talking about will be nice to test it out.

PS: I kinda fixed the OP so you can click de links easier without any thumbnails or anything.
 
Hopefully, it's just a backturn glitch (they forgot to program in the proper frames for RE:ing out of backturn CH/hit) and they'll fix it.
 
People also said that amor moves in Tekken 7 were going to be too strong and look what happened...nothing. Reversal edge looks slow.

And just start throwing them to hell if they think they can mash out RE to take back their turn in a back n fourth.
 
Rikuto said:
If that thing gets people out of stun then it's actually a worse system than anything in DOA because in DOA you have long string delay options and hi-counter throws specifically created to punish hold spammers.

Delayed attacks are a very character specific thing in soul calibur, so whats going to combat RE spam here?

This is what happens when you shoehorn game changing mechanics into a long-running franchise with bad players as the primary benefactor rather than good ones.
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What I've found great for baiting is a simple standing A,B, or K, G-cancel. Big slow characters like Nightmare or Astaroth have slower telegraphed animations. But depending on the character experimenting with all 3 can cause for some interesting movement. Yoshimitsu's K cancel, I believe would cause him to almost spin his entire body around. Of course i'd normally do this in a post GI situation. But if you anticipate a RE, a quick G cancel to maybe a step should be enough to bait an probably get a lethal edge counter off.
 
@FallenAngelII you have it all wrong. That 6A string is in line with the other strings we've seen that leave a LOT of room between the hits, like AAA and BBB. There seems to be a lot of strings that are NOT NC OR NCC. What's the purpose of this? Probably to add medium damage safe options to abare rather than just having AA/2A/236B as your interrupts from disadvantage (as well as add button masher entertainment value). Sophie's new aGIs will find use in countering these strings since they'll put a protective aGI before the hit, so if you know the string you can use the proper aGI to both enforce advantage and aGI the string followup if it comes.

So, RE is NOT CANCELLING HITSTUN. That string just isn't a NCC or even enough to "jail" against RE. Yes, RE is likely to start on frame 1 or 2, earlier than GI does usually, and you can do it out of BT. Yes, RE will nullify some mixups, that's what low GI, fuzzy guarding, and aGIs have done in the past.
 
We've already seen people get counterhit out of RE. I really doubt that it's frame 1 or 2
 
linkorz said:
We've already seen people get counterhit out of RE. I really doubt that it's frame 1 or 2
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I'm not refering to the move, I'm refering to the parry, the parry has to be 1 or 2 frames of activation, 3 at most, dude I remember Amy's aGIs on SCIV where like 3 frames of activation, same as Sophie's A+B, this doesn't seems different than that... in fact Sophie or Amy couldn't backturn and do their aGI in time as we see Sophie doing RE here
min 8:17, Mitsu hits her with 6A,A string, she eats de first one in CH and she's backturned, that move is prob+ a lot of frames, i bet you can't even GI the second one in that situation, but she does RE within waaay too little time, that's what it makes me think it's 1 or 2 frames of activation.
 
A Modest Proposal for Improving RE

I think it's safe to say that no one is too excited for Reversal Edge. Which is understandable, as it's a mechanic aimed at helping new players feel competent and preventing experienced players from overwhelming them.

The problem is that it's easily spammed, it beats everything, and it results in a guessing game that doesn't look fun. Maybe it looks cool, but not fun.

So I suggest that SoulCalibur VI follow the example of guard-cancel counters in KOF, bursts in Guilty Gear/Blazblue/Persona/ArcSys, Break Shots in Fatal Fury, and V-reversals in Street Fighter V and make this "get off of me" counter move cost some meter. At the very least, this prevents the move from getting spammed endlessly. I'm going to suggest that half of one bar would be a sufficient cost to deter over-use, but not so much that an inexperienced player couldn't build it up during a round.

But is it too strict? Unlike all the other examples I listed above, it's a guessing game. There's no way to guarantee that you'll actually win the rock-paper-scissors battle. This uncertainty could prevent new players from wanting to take that risk and undermine the very reason they created the mechanic.

So here's the second part of my proposal. In the event that the player who spends half a bar to initiate the RE loses (not clashes or returns to neutral, but takes damage), the half-bar they spent gets returned to them. So the possibilities of an RE are:

1. Spend half a bar, win the RE, opponent takes damage
2. Spend half a bar, RE ends in a draw, reset to neutral
3. Spend half a bar, lose the RE, take damage, get half a bar back

Of course, the player could just keep doing REs until 1 or 2 happens, but that's true in the current build anyway. Since I know there's no way they're going to remove RE completely, I think this would be the next best way to improve the mechanic.
 
well I'm glad I ain't the only one. I mean jeez, when I first heard about RE, my intuition told me it was bad.

Sophitia RE'ed a CH string while backturned....Possibly 1-3 frames activation....

The RPS aspect of RE is less risky than a mix-up dished out on you, especially considering theres a chance that the DEFENDER gets damage... Goodbye mix-ups.

Even if RE doesn't turn out to be lame, it could be used as a trolling mechanic. Think about it, someone could just literally RE the whole match and completely strip any enjoyment from the other player.

On the other hand, I feel like making it cost meter isn't a good idea either. Spending meter for a guessing game is not worth the meter IMO.

The only way to fix it is to slow the activation frames and limit the amount of RE's to one per round (maybe 2).

I can already see tournaments banning RE's... I'm calling it now. That would make a huge statement to Project Soul.
 
RE parry has great startup. RE attack, however, does not. It also does not track, is unsafe on block, and RE parry does not track much after its initial direction is set up so it is inherently whiff punishable.

RE can be mixed up by moves with fast recovery. Mitsu B is fast enough to be parried by RE but allows the attacker to sidewalk before RE attack lands, even if it's uncharged. As an attacker, you can make this read on reaction and turn a simple poke into an insane amount of damage.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
On the other hand, I feel like making it cost meter isn't a good idea either. Spending meter for a guessing game is not worth the meter IMO.
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That's why my idea was that the player gets the meter back if they lose the guessing game.

In other words, players wouldn't be able to spam it all match, but there's no meter cost if you guess wrong.
 
Rex Dart said:
1. Spend half a bar, win the RE, opponent takes damage
2. Spend half a bar, RE ends in a draw, reset to neutral
3. Spend half a bar, lose the RE, take damage, get half a bar back
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I'm down for this idea, good one.

There's certainly a dilema with all this, also Okubo-san has confirmed that just guard is still in the game in some way and it will probably be a just frame RE . I knew there would be something like that, basicly for break attacks, if you can't GI or RE there had to be something to counter them.

Overall I'm less worried now about this mechanic, because they're making the game revolve around RE as I said, even though I think it's very invasive on the mix-up game and all, they're adding way more strings and variety of them, everyone has a BBB and AAA now so you can beat RE spammers or mix them up for them to hold the charge for you to have time to step, and strings with GB options to not being REd easily like Sophie's TAS AA and TAS AB....

It's kind of balanced right now I would say, but this will be a completly new SC, all mix-ups will revolve around RE in some way, I would still prefer that they remove it but that's not gonna happen so... let the turtling fest BEGIN!! It's going to be funny to see tournaments, people will probably use characters that have really op break attacks and good strings that you can mix-up really well for RE to be not consistent and a lot of spacing because ppl will be kind of scared to attack with RE and GI.

And the part that I hate the most, frame data will not be that important now, wich turns the game more casual, if you're + on block it doesn't matter cose RE and GI, it benefits more if you're minus than + I would say.
 
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Trace_afj said:
There's certainly a dilema with all this, also Okubo-san has confirmed that just guard is still in the game in some way and it will probably be a just frame RE . I knew there would be something like that, basicly for break attacks, if you can't GI or RE there had to be something to counter them.
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Holding Reversal Edge makes it like JG.

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Trace_afj said:
- RE it's done with a single button, we can hold that button to "charge" the attack, if you release it early before it's fully charged you can guard the RE attack without entering in the clash animation https://youtu.be/PAOM2yPOgf0?t=5m29s, however, if you charge it completly even if you guard it, the clash animation will start, but since it's not an unblockable attack you won't take DMG: https://youtu.be/PAOM2yPOgf0?t=4m6s If the RE's strike hits you in an airborne state the clash animation won't start https://youtu.be/meCvnwimIH0?t=5m36s.
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At 8:15 Was that a "full charge" or a different matter? It seems much shorter compared to the clip in the op. Or does it mean the animation is guaranteed so long as you're hit during the RE parry.?
 
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