Rock's Ground/Crouch Throw Bible

Brahma

Brahma

[09] Warrior
So far, it looks like most of Rock's game revolves around his ground and crouch throws. It's where he gets his damage, mixups, RO's, and about anything else he has is worthwhile. Since information on all of this is kind of spread around the board, I thought I'd set up a thread and try and keep everything organized. This is a work in progress and I'll try to to update as often as necessary. Here we go.


3A+G
Feet toward throw. A to break. 10 damage by itself. Rings out front.

Free followups
-Head ground throw attempt. (1A+G = 40 dmg, 1B+G = 15 dmg + followups)
-instant 22_88B: 33 dmg.
-B+K, 1K: 31-38 damage, depending on tech after B+K.

Tech Traps
-If they tech left or right, or near a wall free B+K(21 dmg), into Head ground throw attempt_1K.
-If they tech backwards, you just get the B+K. Now from here, you have a few options. They are too far away for a Gthrow attempt, so you can go for the free 1K, or tech trap with 4A+B_dash in crouch throw. If you train them to stay on the ground to avoid the tech trap, you can get a dash Head ground throw attempt, or try to go for 1K~3A+G_B+G, though for the latter they have to not tech the B+K or the 1K.
-22_88B if timed correctly catches tech all ways for 46 dmg, plus a free Head ground throw attempt or 4A+B_dash crouch throw tech trap.
-236B+K will hit if they do not tech. 82 Damage if they stay grounded. 110 Damage and juggle if they get up.



3B+G
Feet towards ground throw. B to break. 36 dmg.

Followups
-1K must be blocked.
-1A can be avoided by rolling back or with a fast WS move.
-iWSB can be avoided by rolling to the side or with a fast WS move.
-66B/BB can be avoided by staying on the ground.



1A+G
Head towards ground throw. A to break. 40 dmg. Has a very slight chance of RO/wallsplat.

Followups
-All tech must block A+B and 1A
-Dash into Crouch throw hits passive tech (if they hold G while teching, crouch throw will miss).
-Backwards tech must block 22_88B.
-iWSB hits everything except left tech.
-Both hits of BB will hit if they do not roll to the sides. If they do, 2nd B will track and hit them.



1B+G
Head towards throw. B to break. 15 dmg by itself. Rings out behind.

Free followups
-Feet first ground throw attempt.
-44K: 18 dmg. No tech traps, but decent wakes.
-instant 22_88B: 34 dmg.
-B+K is free on Amy only.

Tech
-If they tech any direction, 22B tech traps for 46 damage and OCCASIONALLY gives free ground throw.
-If they don't tech, B+K into free ground throw attempt_1K.



2A+G
Crouch throw. A to break. 20 dmg by itself.

Free Followups
-Head ground throw attempt.

Followups
-1A, 11_77K, 44K, 2A+K, 2B must be blocked
-22_88B and WSB can only be rolled to the left


2B+G
Crouch Throw. B to break. 20 Damage by itself

For more information on 2B+G, go to :
http://www.8wayrun.com/f36/2b-g-study-t1688/
 
Don't forget to add that after 1A+G a delayed crouch throw can tech trap. It's a beautiful thang.

EDIT: For whatever reason the A+B followup to 2B+G won't work on Hilde. And X won't do the spin animation. Yay hitboxes. There may be more characters so anyone feel free to test if I don't.
 
The hitboxes play into affect on the 2B+G special followups. Right now, the punishment list comes before the 2B+G thread, so I haven't come up with an effective solution against the Yoshi and his sticks team other than 8B into 6B+K.
 
This is great! Brilliant Anti Rock thread :D

Im so gonna know what the deal is with Rocks boring ground game.
Click to expand...

Somehow, I don't think the point of this thread was to be an Anti Rock thread. >_>

Either you don't realize this is the Rock board, or you're trying to be an ass.

But it IS good to analyze your opponents moves and what their general game is.
 
Doing some Christmas editing. Took out all the 2B+G information and linked it to the 2B+G thread.

Not sure that 1A can be rolled in any direction after 1A+G. Someone please confirm this.

2A+G gives so much advantage that even if you don't go for the ground throw, you got some great options afterwards even if they don't stand.

3B+G is the weakpoint here. The only thing that punishes them for laying on the ground or backrolling is 1K. That's 10 damage. There is a slight chance that if the opponent is cornered that you can get 1K>Ground throw mix-ups.
 
This probably won't help, but I've been using 1A after every one of my ground throws, and no matter which direction my opponent teched, they could not escape it.

However, I think a little bit of a dash forward is required to catch enemies who tech backwards with a 1A, and it depends on the ground throw. I'm sorry I can't be more specific with which ground throw. My fingers do all the thinking for me in a match, I can barely remember what my moves look like when I'm not sitting on an arcade stick.

Also, to catch enemies with 22_88B or B+K, do you have to start them up immediately after the throw?
 
Depends on the throw. 3A+G, 22B is really easy, so is 3A+G, B+K. 1B+G, 22B can be a lot trickier, and it seems to whiff against some characters. You need to do it as fast as possible, but at the same time, if it's delayed by just a moment then you can catch some techs for extra damage. If you're not sure and you just need some damage then you can always to 1A or 6B+K or whatever. Against Amy you can get the B+K every time with either throw.
 
what about...stuff to do...after they break your ground grabs?!!

say 3A+G for example. I would 6K CH them for getting up and attacking but today i started doing 3B. uninterriptible maybe? what do you guys do?
 
just that Taimat.

It depends on what they do, if they attack i will do 6K or 3B both uninterruptable...If they hesitate, i dash to throw and 2B+K mixups. Sometimes 2A+K, and sometimes 6B+K after careful consideration. 22B is nice for gauge damage as well, requires some consideration too.

The key to this mixup is that postground throw break, they can't tech only get up or sideroll.
 
4K>Crouch Throw if they try to attack you While Standing. Most WS moves TC, so the crouch throw will land.
 
also.. just doing the 'jf dash' then throw after ground throw break... that's another mixup

if they get sick of getting mixed up and start to realize Rock's constant advantage even on 'wrong guesses' you will be start landing stuff like

GT breaks -> jf dah -> GT

also keep in mind.. if they are next to wall/ring this becomes much easier.

-LAU
 
wanna add

after 3A+G/1B+G - 6K is pretty much the only forward RO move... it's really not that good trying to find better, another option is 4KA but very ACable.

also... 6B+K i believe is a guaranteed ender with good wakes... i usually like to use this if 1) round finisher don't wanna leave a chance for screw up with 22B or... 2) trying to RO them from a low wall.. often times i find this gives them the extra push that is sometimes needed to go over low walls.

-LAU
 
6B+K may self ringout though...embarassingly too haha.
One more thing to add to that Lau, remember what i said about 6K on air hit...well in case you failed the ringout. 6K on air hit would lead to an uninterruptable 2B+K on wakes, and they CANNOT sidetech to avoid it post air hit, they must get STRAIGHT up and block it OR stay on the ground and avoid it...but that results in free HF grab which CANNOT be avoided, unless they get up lol.
 
D:

correction.... 1A+G -> jf dash -> crouch throw works... it's not a 'passive tech' thing even if the opponent holds onto guard it still works.. HOWEVER... the bigger the character are the harder it is... especially if they tech right... for some it's impossible...... HOWEVER... if there's a wall it makes everything much easier...

this tech with walls is pretty much catch all directions

if against a small character like amy (preliminary testing... not sure about other small characters) you don't even really need a wall... against big characters (tested on rock only) it seems extremely hard if they tech back/right without walls

-LAU
 
Yes. For some reason, Rock's crouch throw catches MUCH better to his right. So if they tech the other side... it's harder to land a crouch throw tech. However, I almost never use crouch throws as tech unless I absolutely have to. I mean, 4A+B works just as well, does guaranteed damage, and puts them right back to the ground.
 
D_Matt_Ma said:
Yes. For some reason, Rock's crouch throw catches MUCH better to his right. So if they tech the other side... it's harder to land a crouch throw tech. However, I almost never use crouch throws as tech unless I absolutely have to. I mean, 4A+B works just as well, does guaranteed damage, and puts them right back to the ground.
Click to expand...

1A+G -> 4A+B ???

SERIOUSLY?

that i gotta try out. I thought i checked this yesterday briefly and it didn't work... but i'll try it out

i think one advantage of CT tech trap is.... it's more safe compared to 4A+B tech trap... CT whiff recovers faster than 4A+B

but 4A+B = guaranteed damage so it's always a better choice if it's available.

-LAU
 
patch....
need to make 4A+B safer, i would whore that shit.

I thought i tried that trap as well and it failed, i gotta check that thoroughly when i have time, that sounds like hot sauce
 
Okay, I think everyone misunderstood me. I said that whenever 4A+B can be used as a tech trap, use it over crouch throws.

Okay, it seems Amy eats stuff like no tomorrow with JF dash. JF Dash after Command Throw guarantees the ground throw. I bow to the Lau. It also guarantees crouch throw post 1A+G as a tech trap.

I'm testing it on other characters now.

Also guaranteed on Cass Sophie, and Hilde (my life just got better).

Works on X and Cervantes.

NOT ON Algol, Ivy, Vader, and Astaroth.

Early conclusion: this is HEIGHT dependent, not weight. It misses on Ivy but hits Cervantes despite weight classes due to Ivy being super tall (pretty legs... lucky gal dodges the Manliness once again).

EDIT: It is NOT height dependent. It works on Voldo, but not on Kilik.

It works on Apprentice
 
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