SC Community needs to move on....

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Impending_Doom66 said:
How exactly are you going to determine what the community wants?
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By watching this thread, the GAMME and DEV threads and probably a few match finder threads (SoCal for example). GAMME is really the only major between now and DEV, so what they decide on will likely have an impact on the rules at DEV, as will the outcome of this thread.

D.I.N.O said:
Does nobody like my idea?!?1

MARCH APRIL MAY

We do a Spring Qualifiers. All this means is that said region will run a tournament. #1 Gets winnings and "hopefully" joined the tournament deciding to go to GAMME (EC) or DEV(WC).

So those who played in a tourney will get a seed in the Majors. Those who want to join are free to do so, but not gauranteed a seed.

Then you have a Top 8 from both tourneys. I don't think the pot winnings will stretch that far, but after these two tournaments, we can run a NORTH AMERICAN (or INTRNTNL) Nationals, at EVO or some other Major event. Somehow maybe we will get enough funds for a decent pot.

If not, then I guess We can only do an EC and WC NATs, with EVO being the "All Star Game".

Anybody!??! Or are we simply moving on.
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I'm okay with having DEV as the west coast Nats or whatever you want to call it. If there's support for the game we'll run it at DEV every year.
 
Whodat: Pessimism vs. Optimism. As I said earlier, there's usually about 25+ dedicated followers for any given major tourney. Most of these guys are the ones who will play the game no matter what the rules are. I'd rather they be happy when I play so the experience is better for all of us. Everyone else that disagrees doesn't really matter since they don't exactly show up anyway. I'll always play the Soul series, which is why I like these posts on rules. Hooray!
 
I'm being a realist Vints. The reason why I stopped traveling to a majority of tournaments is because of the lack of a standard ruleset early on. If this had happened within the first 6 months of the game being out I wouldn't have been mad, but they wait forever to make a decision. Hilde is retarded and we all know that, but if she wasn't banned when it became widely known that she was far beyond the rest of the cast I say leave her. Algol gets clumped in with her for whatever reason even though when tier lists were made he wasn't even #1 or 2. I "mained" Algol for a good while, but come never commit because of the lack of a standard ruleset.

The scrub mentality thing is what gets me. I mean you can even look back on this thread and see where it is going. I see that people are going on and saying that Amy should be banned because she's too good. Whatever wins is always going to be "too good" to these people. It makes people like me almost afraid to win because who knows when my character will get banned because they're "too good".
 
I also wish this shit was standardized earlier. Anyways, Hilde/Algol will be banned at GAMME. Again, not the way I wanted it done, but it's the way it's gonna be.

-Idle
 
umm...wow. Didn't expect that to happen. but WHATEVER!!!!

Whodat: you're still trash because you beat me with a BANNED CHARACTER!!!!!

lolz, but to be serious:

Sword: yea i guess i did misread your post....MY BAD! HERE'S YOUR FUCKN COOKIE.....

*throws chocolate chip cookie at Sword...*

whoda'ts also right in the sense that the community is going to continusly bitch about something (hey, didn't i and a few others mention that earlier??) But here's what i say to that.

YOU ALL GOT WHAT YOU WANTED...now, read the title, apply it to your brain, and continue to troll on this thread and complain about something else [/subliminial message]
 
sweet, guess now it's time for Thuggish's dominance to take full effect again. I'm gradually gettin my anti-Amy in super high gear though. technique called "acceptable risks".
 
Whodat: Take forever to make a decision? I kind of see what you mean, but not really since you don't need to depend on the organizers or whatever. Just do your own thing. A lot of times I'd rather play someone freeplay one-on-one as my way of seeing where I stand with them. In terms of bans, personally, I tried to play it safe and pick a character that isn't quite top tier. Never felt right, anyway. Not because they might get banned, but because you know the opponent doesn't actually feel like they lost legitimately. As in I can't picture them saying, "yeah, I deserved to lose that one."

I know it sucks for some people. You were annoyed in SC3 with Greed, I remember. Haha, sorry.
 
ehh, most people I think felt cheated when losing to Hwang. I'd much rather fight SC3 X than SC3 Hwang. but that's another topic...
 
IdleMind said:
I also wish this shit was standardized earlier. Anyways, Hilde/Algol will be banned at GAMME. Again, not the way I wanted it done, but it's the way it's gonna be.

-Idle
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Interesting decision. But I applaud you for putting your foot down and making it. While I think Hilde is conceptually a fantastic character that brings an entirely new playstyle to SC. She's unfortunately ruined by the kind of playstyle binding encourages. But banning binds is not an enforceable solution. And even if it were, C3B into ringout is still ridiculously demoralising for newer players who don't know how to play against her. Until the combo is gone, I think in the interest of keeping players interested this might be the best solution. I don't know how I feel about Algol though.
 
Docvizzo: Do u accept sir! Saitoh says i'm delusional so please entertain me. No offense intended here either because I have no gripes with u but I do with the scrub mentality.

Tresto: I'm not MM'ing because I want to prove anything. Don't care much for the complainers views on what constitutes skill. I believe this is it...

Complainers Rule: Your only as good as ur character and thus u have no skill unless ur using whatever character said individual has no gripes with or deems non tier abusive.

Yeah I don't support that so I won't entertain u. I made that offer to docivzzo on a spur of the moment that will entertain just as well when i'm playing him in person. The MM part is just to make it so he has something to lose for being a complainer. Plus he has a higher chance of winning the cash back that he is going to lose in our Kilik vs. Cervantes MM :).

D.I.N.O said:
SU - Rock?! Guy you suck. Leave Rock to the experts. Stay with your Kilik and feel special for winning with Asura's and RO's HAHAHAH!!
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Wait........ Who are the experts. I hope ur not implying whom I think cause D.I.N.O is no expert. The latter part of this statement is just more... well u know its all over the thread. Cry More :)

InsaneKhent said:
Oh schnap, my man Omar is gonna take on people with the ROCK?! Someone get vids! :2::1::4::A:::A:::A: Just Frames all day, baby!
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Just Frames FTW! Don't forget his 63214B+G Just Frame! Hoorah!

Saitoh: Since ur reading this thread would u like to MM since u haven't posted in the MM thread? It would make my day :)
 
Chickenwing said:
SU: you know imma give you shit whether you're right or not. In which in that case you are right. I'm just reiterating Sword's point. Ceirnian was a nobody until he chose Hilde. Was it his fault? no, but he's clearly stating just give him AND RTD another character to play with and the result would be as Follows (in case of a FT10)

RTD - 10
Ciernian - 3

That's his arguement.
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I didn't see this until now, this was like 5 pages ago but still I gotta respond to it. It's not fair to say Ceirnian was a nobody until he chose Hilde because he STARTED the game with Hilde. Before any doom combo was found, back when people used to do the air catch spear move after C3B (don't know the notation). He got into SC4 hardcore after playing SC3 casually with me at his college at the very end of the SC3 days. When the game first came out he chose Hilde, he had no clue someone was gonna find out some 'doom combo' for her or that she'd turn out to be labeled broken. It's also not fair to say that other people have more skill when I watched him develop those same skills other good people have. Keep in mind he learned all this pretty much in the course of one game, whereas other people have been playing this series competitively for years and had time to fine tune those basic skills that make a player 'good'. Things like throw breaking, stepping, mind games, defense, etc. So all this talk about 'see what he does with another character' is not fair, especially putting him in a FT10 against RTD and comparing the results. RTD been playing this game at high level since most of you niggas didn't know Soul Calibur tourneys even existed. He's had time to use many other characters in the game, he could probably pick X and beat most of the community in a FT10. Ceirnian used most of the short time he used learning this game with Hilde, so of course his secondary character wouldn't be as strong.
 
Something-Unique said:
Docvizzo: Do u accept sir! Saitoh says i'm delusional so please entertain me. No offense intended here either because I have no gripes with u but I do with the scrub mentality.
Tresto: I'm not MM'ing because I want to prove anything. Don't care much for the complainers views on what constitutes skill. I believe this is it...

Complainers Rule: Your only as good as ur character and thus u have no skill unless ur using whatever character said individual has no gripes with or deems non tier abusive.

Yeah I don't support that so I won't entertain u. I made that offer to docivzzo on a spur of the moment that will entertain just as well when i'm playing him in person. The MM part is just to make it so he has something to lose for being a complainer. Plus he has a higher chance of winning the cash back that he is going to lose in our Kilik vs. Cervantes MM :).



Wait........ Who are the experts. I hope ur not implying whom I think cause D.I.N.O is no expert. The latter part of this statement is just more... well u know its all over the thread. Cry More :)



Just Frames FTW! Don't forget his 63214B+G Just Frame! Hoorah!

Saitoh: Since ur reading this thread would u like to MM since u haven't posted in the MM thread? It would make my day :)
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gotta just point it out but thats a huge opinion and there's prolly some players that think the same about you, not saying that i do cause i dont but doc isnt a scrub for saying that with your character you dont really have anything to whine about.
 
babalook said:
gotta just point it out but thats a huge opinion and there's prolly some players that think the same about you, not saying that i do cause i dont but doc isnt a scrub for saying that with your character you dont really have anything to whine about.
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this...coming from an online player *thumbs up*

Krayzie: fair enough, after reading that i understand. Just remember, i mainly wasn't talking shit about Ciernian in that post, i was explaning it another way.

:D
 
Babalook: Docvizzo is no scrub. But i'll state it again. He is not on my level. Shit in his eyes its because of my character. Thats just more fuel for the he won't win. Rock gives him an opportunity to win the cash back since he is not top. But then again Cervantes is A+ in most peoples book. S in mine. See how u can play devils advocate with tiers and turn that around. To fiddle with the flawed complainers rule some more Rock is considered one of the three worst in the game. He isn't even close to my main, Cervantes is his and is too good because he's up there. Devils advocate ftw :)!

Don't let ur online experience/victory vs. me fool u if its swaying u. If not cool because ONLINE means NOTHING.

Still waiting for him to accept. I await patiently!!!
 
The ironic tone don't suit you at all Omar =)
Anyway, yes of course I accept, we have to settle this, remember ? "There is no money involved so it's not a true challenge" when I destroyed your Kilik 5-1 ? =) Not even counting your shitty Hilde, 5-2.

I didn't plan to accept any MM (but FT5 challenge yes) but I'll made an exception for you because of this "dispute" to settle ;)
 
Regarding Hilde.

There are many factors that have to work together to make playing with no binds difficult in the long run.

I, at first thought we could charge all day, and break throws. Until i met astaroth, and characters with command throws. I can count on two hands the number of times i have broken command throws with small windows. So i am not saying that breaking throws is impossible. Its just harder. And this matters, because in tournaments, you want 100% consistency in attempting to break throws. Under heavy pressure, and a against a very pressuring opponent, it becomes so much harder.

The other argument is that throws, can cause you to get launcehd by hilde. Ok there are many more ways to land a throw, apart from mixups. What about as whiff punishers (look at nightmare). Post-GI? AT these situations throws are unduckable. And its not just throws that give problems. It gets really annoying against flapjacks, and kilik 3A+Bs. And yes don't throw her with the ring edge behind you mindlessly. throw when there is a wall behind you or something....

Playing full charge on binds has one more really really big problem. Punishing. Hilde's punishers SUCK when you are charging all the way with no binding. Mitsu 1A will rape you. She doesnt even get a WSK off that. Flapjack can only be WSked. These moments, you need your 6B+K, A+K, 3BA or 4B+K to evade/punish these unsafe moves.... well then you could all say that all she needs to do is land one launcher and win any way, so whats the big deal with not being able to punish.

Well you have to play by the matchup (which most of you dont) and make it really hard for her to launch you.

- Hilde cannot whiff punish moves that recover mad fast on reaction. These are moves like Yoshi 6A, X 4K, Kilik 6B9. This will cause her to waste her charge! This is frustrating in a longer run, as she is driven to use pokes like 3K to interrupt... and 3K is shitty damage. Don't tell me you are going to 3K people all day who use such quick moves. You'd want to use your 3A or whatever right. But this requires planning. If you had binds, you could just tap 3A without spending time to release your charge to do it.

-ALSO understand, in order to bait whiff hilde has to move. She moves back, or to the side. Yes her movement is amazing. However, you have to understand how a Hilde that is trigger happy with C3B works. Any twitch, means releasing B to launch you to kingdom come. So we can exploit this. Against a Hilde that commits to movement after she gets advantage, in order to bait whiff and kill you, you have to attack out of disadvantage very differently. You don't attack out of disadvantage with traditional evasive attacks like the usual 44Bs, or WSbs, or whatever. They will whiff. You must attack out of disadvantage with long or mid ranged horizontals. For example, kilik 2A+K. If Hilde is at frame advantage and wants to bait WSB, 1B, 4B+K from Kilik, she will backstep or side step yeah? Now if kilik does 2A+K 2 things could happen. If she commits 100% to movement, she will get hit. If she step guards, she will react to the beginning of 2A+K and release B, thinking she saw a whiff, and get CHed. If she guards, she gets SG damage. thats so much better than whiffing traditional abare and getting killed. So ya, do your own testing.

- Also, understand risk reward and do not duck unneccesarily. If you know there is a B charge, don't duck like ever. Just face a throw 50/50. This is enough. Limit her options to just a throw 50/50... don't habitually duck. Its not worth it. Also if you know the throw is coming, jump attack with 9A or something that cant be stepped easily.

The abovementioned problems arise only if the opponent is playing the matchup well. Yes there is still the doom combo, but landing it will be substantially harder. You have to understand what options have been rendered ineffective, and move away to other parts of your movelist. This matchup is a high level study. So yeah all the abovementioned problems add up and make it frustrating for the hilde player. Hilde players who charge 100% on no binds will then face a problem i call a mental paralysis. This is very dangerous against rushers as you will remove your focus from their actions, to your fingers...
 
Saitoh said:
The ironic tone don't suit you at all Omar =)
Anyway, yes of course I accept, we have to settle this, remember ? "There is no money involved so it's not a true challenge" when I destroyed your Kilik 5-1 ? =) Not even counting your shitty Hilde, 5-2.

I didn't plan to accept any MM (but FT5 challenge yes) but I'll made an exception for you because of this "dispute" to settle ;)
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I apologize for the tone for whatever it may be but I have grown tired of the bullshit that surrounds this game.

Thank u for making my day though. We can settle this dispute. In my eyes even though I tried to make our matches mean nothing because of our cultural differences I still believe Casuals is Casuals regardless of what u call them out there FT5 whatever.

But the truth is it don't mean shit unless there is something on the line. Tournament or MM's only. That's how the states rolls and other countries such as Japan etc. Daigo is a good example.

It ain't shit if u ain't got nothing to lose. So give me more money. I'm good at taking that from peoples pockets when I win including u. Kind regards!

Make it 20Euros please :)! You will lose again.
 
WOW, there is alot of shit talk on this offline thread. Well lets see where to start, chickenwing just because we play online does not mean anything. And yes, this is coming from a random online tira player. And who are you. Are you even known to be a good offline player at all (no offense) I just never heard of you. SU, its true online does not mean anything, but you cant call an online player that tries to mimic offline to the best of his ability (Babalook) bad and unskilled. That pretty much is what your saying by stating that the wins dont mean anything. Or at least that how I would take it. Hopefully your respectful enough not to mean it like that SU.
 
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