SC5 'Ivy' Story/Possibilities/Speculation

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maybe i'm the only one that's crazy here but i've seen people punish this move all the time. it just looks like laziness to me.

next thing you know people are gonna petition to slow down 22K.

oh well, i'm done talking about this move.
 
I also feel we need to bring up certain Ivy buffs that are needed...5 JF...right now unless you are super accurate it is completely not worth the risk of failure...and even then sometimes it does less due to damage scale! This move needs to be safe for starters and have more reward.
 
This probably won't mean anything as I'm sure the new Ivy will be a complete new character, with different inputs and move properties like in every SC game but here's what I'd like to see in SC5 in regard to certain moves.

Nerfs:

CL 1B,B+K - either remove the pushback or disallow the option to spam it continously. Not both like in BD.
SW BB - remove tracking and SGD (10 to CF is too much for a i15 tracking mid)
SW A+B - fix the UB
Reduce the SG damage of faster moves in each stance
Disallow mindless WP 6B+K spam
Reduce the size of her boobs
Remove tracking from CL 214B
Remove 9gB (so that the move stays in SW and it's i18, not i17)
Reduce CL BB reach
WP 3A -make it a bit slower maybe or change the stun to spin stun instead of crumble stun to reduce RO

Buffs:

Same movement in every stance
5 hit JF - either make is safe on block with GC on the last hit, or make it like in BD, very unsafe but damaging
SE A236A - unshakable, or at least non-stepable and non-gi'able
WP 6bA+B - increase SG damage dramatically
WP 4A - KND on CH like in BD
CL/WP BB - NC with + on hit
CL/WP AA - + on hit
WP FC 3B~A+B - non interruptible and launching on CH always like in BD
WP 1AA - either safe or positive on hit
CL 1A - either instant TC frames or faster aGI frames. Or just make it the way it was in SC3

Other balancing/stuff

SW 214K - + on hit but less damage on grounded opponent, new input perhaps (K2 like in SC2)
Remove CL/WP 1K and 3K and replace them with SW 1K/3K, with 1K being i15 like in BD
WP 66A+B with cancel in bewtween hits, WP 22_88A cancel
New input and animation for CS/SS

I could go on with this for hours but those are the most notable changes I'd like to see. Most of her staple moves should remain unchaged (eg SW 3B, SW WSB, SW 22_88B, SW 22K etc)
 
Nerfs:

CL 1B,B+K - either remove the pushback or disallow the option to spam it continously. Not both like in BD.
SW BB - remove tracking and SGD (10 to CF is too much for a i15 tracking mid)
SW A+B - fix the UB
Reduce the SG damage of faster moves in each stance
Disallow mindless WP 6B+K spam
Reduce the size of her boobs
Remove tracking from CL 214B
Remove 9gB (so that the move stays in SW and it's i18, not i17)
Reduce CL BB reach
WP 3A -make it a bit slower maybe or change the stun to spin stun instead of crumble stun to reduce RO

Buffs:

Same movement in every stance
5 hit JF - either make is safe on block with GC on the last hit, or make it like in BD, very unsafe but damaging
SE A236A - unshakable, or at least non-stepable and non-gi'able
WP 6bA+B - increase SG damage dramatically
WP 4A - KND on CH like in BD
CL/WP BB - NC with + on hit
CL/WP AA - + on hit
WP FC 3B~A+B - non interruptible and launching on CH always like in BD
WP 1AA - either safe or positive on hit
CL 1A - either instant TC frames or faster aGI frames. Or just make it the way it was in SC3

Other balancing/stuff

SW 214K - + on hit but less damage on grounded opponent, new input perhaps (K2 like in SC2)
Remove CL/WP 1K and 3K and replace them with SW 1K/3K, with 1K being i15 like in BD
WP 66A+B with cancel in bewtween hits, WP 22_88A cancel
New input and animation for CS/SS

I could go on with this for hours but those are the most notable changes I'd like to see. Most of her staple moves should remain unchaged (eg SW 3B, SW WSB, SW 22_88B, SW 22K etc)

I agree with some your stuff Ring but there are some things i would do differently and others i want to ask you about.

CL 1B,B+K- would it be to good if they removed/reduced the pushback and replaced CL''s BB(I think this would also reduce Cl range slight at the same time)?
SW BB- Track reduction is cool if they nix all the bb's with track.(maybe its just me or SC4 but can this and other AA's and BB's be made more hit confirmable . Do i always have to commit to both B's?)
SW A+B glitch...I actually want this on Sw 3[B+K] I think it wouldmake this move way more effective and could implemented in a way were it's not glitch but part of the move. Would this be cheap to you guys?
Why put the SG on All the Fast stuff Ring?
Dis Allow mindless misue but not tactful Wp6B+K.
IDC if they mess with her boobs a bit but no Talim tits on Ivy(love talim as a character but her boobs fit her not ivy)
214B - Trackless...Didnt we see how this turned out...HORRIBLE. Cant agree just yet ring maybe if you give a breakdown?
9gB/9b - I Partially agree, I would rather have that as the regular 9B i18 an all, in all stances even if they made a bit more punishable like -20 but only on 9. While 7B and 8B remained like they are now so you can mix up(just tossed out -20). 7_8_9gB in CL/Wp would give the current TJ Whip lash move.
Wp 3A is good as is Imo It got nerfed enough in the patches. I wouldnt mind if it combo a bit easier to CL A A+K CH and maybe a tad safer on block.

5 hit JF- It shoul be Good/decnt damage and GC for a bit of Safety, 5JF in a row should be worth that.
SE 236A- I would love for it to be unshakble but i think it wasnt because it would be a free SS. But Something needs to be done to make this move more effective.
6bA+B - 100% agree its like 23-25 hits and a GC but doesnt CR until like 40 or something WTF? A Smig of track would be nice (devious)muhahaha.
I Agree with everything else complety on your buff list.(not that you really care)

214K - I dont think 214k needs a damage reduction but i guess if the input change it would get more use so it would add up, even so no major reduction is nessicary though at least Imo. The Change to Wp3k and 1k to Sw's are very welcome just dont gimp it to the BD range. Sw 3k/6b8k charge/delay and should make a comeback.
 
I agree with some your stuff Ring but there are some things i would do differently and others i want to ask you about.

CL 1B,B+K- would it be to good if they removed/reduced the pushback and replaced CL''s BB(I think this would also reduce Cl range slight at the same time)?

Something must be done about this move, but in BD we could see that the way Namco fixes things is by destroying them completely. CL 1B,B+K has almost no use in Broken Destiny apart from the wall splat in stun combos. In my opinion, this move should be nerfed but not that much. I don't think that CL BB should be replaced, it's a good move. The range is great and it also has tracking, but that's ok considering that it's possible to GI the second hit. The only drawback was that it was NCC and negative on hit. BD changed it in a good way and it should stay like that IMO.

SW BB- Track reduction is cool if they nix all the bb's with track.(maybe its just me or SC4 but can this and other AA's and BB's be made more hit confirmable . Do i always have to commit to both B's?)
Actually, you're right because a lot of BB's have tracking. It's mostly the SG damage that's ridiculously imbalanced here and the tracking makes it even more spammable.

SW A+B glitch...I actually want this on Sw 3[B+K] I think it wouldmake this move way more effective and could implemented in a way were it's not glitch but part of the move. Would this be cheap to you guys?
Yeah, I think SW 3[B+K] could be faster, but it would still be high and people would duck it on reaction. Maybe it would be more effective if they made it mid, thus forcing people to step rather than just duck.

Why put the SG on All the Fast stuff Ring?
Ivy's SG damage is one of the best in the game, but notice how most of her most soul damaging moves come from relatively fast and safe attacks like SW BB, SW 3B, SW WS B, CL 6B, CL WS B etc shouldn't it be the other way, I mean, slower moves (WP 6B+K, WP 6bA+B, WP 44A+B, SW 1_2_3B+K etc) with good SG damage (around 10 or less) and the faster ones with less SG (10-15)? I'm not saying to completely destroy her SG game, just balance it better.

Dis Allow mindless misue but not tactful Wp6B+K.
The move is fine as it is, just the fact that can be spammed midlessy due to the lack of stance lock could be fixed.

IDC if they mess with her boobs a bit but no Talim tits on Ivy(love talim as a character but her boobs fit her not ivy)
They were fine in SC2/SC3 xD now they just look strange and inhuman lol.

214B - Trackless...Didnt we see how this turned out...HORRIBLE. Cant agree just yet ring maybe if you give a breakdown?
I only mean the tracking. What made this move so horrible in BD is the lack of pushback and forced crouch on block meaning it's 2x more punishable. This is another example of how to completely destroy a good move.

9gB/9b - I Partially agree, I would rather have that as the regular 9B i18 an all, in all stances even if they made a bit more punishable like -20 but only on 9. While 7B and 8B remained like they are now so you can mix up(just tossed out -20). 7_8_9gB in CL/Wp would give the current TJ Whip lash move.
Well, not to start another 9B debate, this move has always been only in SW if I remember well. Probably ended up in CL/WP because of some bug, but was a great addition to these stances, especially WP.

Wp 3A is good as is Imo It got nerfed enough in the patches. I wouldnt mind if it combo a bit easier to CL A A+K CH and maybe a tad safer on block.
It had to be nerfed because it was ridiculous in 1.02. If you don't remember then it did 10 more damage in combos, was 0 on normal hit and completely safe on block. Another move that was spammed midlessy, I was actually glad that they nerfed it. Same with WP 6A+B, but that a different story and I'm sure people don't want to go back to it xD Now the move is fine but I'd like it be like in SC3 AE. I guess this would count as a nerf but it's only my opinion.

5 hit JF- It shoul be Good/decnt damage and GC for a bit of Safety, 5JF in a row should be worth that.
There is no good solution here if we want this move balanced. It has been through a lot since SC2:

SC2: It was +25 on block (yes, not a typo) but it was possible to GI/aGI in between. Also, it never worked in combos for some reason (only the first two hits were guaranteed IIRC) It was practically useless.

SC3: The move seemed much better, but then we found out that it's possible to escape it in combos by pressing [4]... it only worked in combos near walls. Plus, we discovered the differences in each version:
  • NTSC-US where the move had some strange issues, could be sometimes blocked after the first two hits in combos like in SC2
  • PAL/NTSC-JP was released a bit later and they fixed it, but still it was escapable in combos
  • AE where it was probably the best of all games. Fully guaranteed w/ no option to escape and safe
SC4: Well... not much to say except that it sucks in combos. On standing opponent the damage is good with 9gB as a followup and can do decent damage as a techtrap.

BD: Much more damage in exchange for even bigger block recovery. I think this move is very good here, it clearly has more damage potential, you just have to remember not to spam in on block, and use SE BBB instead for that.

SE 236A- I would love for it to be unshakble but i think it wasnt because it would be a free SS. But Something needs to be done to make this move more effective.
The effect on NH should be the same as for CH (where it's unshakable). This move is bad in almost every aspect now, you risk a lot for just 5 damage. The only thing I don't understand is why they decided to nerf this move even more in BD.

6bA+B - 100% agree its like 23-25 hits and a GC but doesnt CR until like 40 or something WTF? A Smig of track would be nice (devious)muhahaha.
I liked the way they buffed it in BD, 10 blocked lead to CF which is fine now. This move has a very cool looking animation and block effect, it's a shame that it has no uses whatsoever.

214K - I dont think 214k needs a damage reduction but i guess if the input change it would get more use so it would add up, even so no major reduction is nessicary though at least Imo. The Change to Wp3k and 1k to Sw's are very welcome just dont gimp it to the BD range.

I think damage reduction would be a nice trade for plus frames on hit (now it's negative). Besides that would also make Ivy's air throw more useful as now it does less damage than the stomp.

Sw 3k charge

If only... this was super good in SC3. The kick had some strange stun properties in SC3 AE, I have never seen a stun quite like that before. I remember seeing the movies where players did SW 3[K], SW 2B+K, WP 22B combo for 1/3 of life on NH.

Sorry for another mega post with "history lessons", lol.
 
  • I dont agree with nerfing WP 3A. It's negative on NH and unsafe.
  • I can agree with some SG nerfs in some areas, but not too much. WP6aA+B definitely should break in 9-10, but SW/CL BB should be like a 20. I still want my SW 3B - 10.
  • SE A236A needs to just be unshakable OR be completely safe if shaken, perhaps with frame advantage.
  • I think CL 214B needs to track. Getting 180'd by that fucking SUCKS. Not only are you free for a HUGE punish, you're BT for more damage. Keep the tracking, maybe nerf it in other ways.
  • I also feel we should get rid of the SW 6B9 notation and just have 8B+K. There's no reason to divide the inputs and have one better. It's not like 2A+K where the intention was to force a stance shift to offset the gained frames and damage (even though we figured out how to stop it).
  • STOP trying to nerf her tits.It's the only thing controlling the swords length changing!
 
Dont Apologize, im glad you responeded with detail. Like when you intialy said nerf the fast move SG i thought you ment like 25 and up so that was cleared up and i actually agree with 10-15 range.

Wp 3A - I like the Stun on it now mainly because of the follow up options so if those stayed guess the stun wouldn't matter but the ring out combo would be missed. I hate that Wp6A+B had to be nerf so bad, for me it was the equiliavent of Sw 214k to Wp but i understand that people abused it instead using like a poke/OTG/Oki move and have said my self that if it cant get any track then it should got back to Sc3 style where it was part of A+B.

214B - If they make it trackless or reduce the track so long as it can actually dodge verticals and not be interupted by them or end up back turned I'd be cool with it.

9B -Not a debate or least not a hostile one. I know it was sword only i remeber the old animation for the CH used to make me laugh, I mainly want something to replace Wp 7_8_9b because im my game its pretty useless so i figured just swap them with 9gB even if it wasnt intended.

5 hit JF- Yeah i never knew Howling Sprites was that bad back then i just thought it looked cool but i could never get past 2-3 until Sc4 and nowi can get 3-5 and it almost pointless, but I see that it is hard to balance. Though in my eye's things like this, that you have to almost think about during gamplay to execute should be rewared with a bit of the best of both worlds damage and safety. It would be different if you could pull it of with Mash B then make unsafe as hell and raped by scale.

236A - agreed complete it needs to go up from Sc4 not down.
 
One thing I'll say about 9B and 9gB, is I dont think that can be fixed. And that 9gB will always be faster than 9B, because of how they system is designed. The move is like 6B9. Or even better example SE B+K6.

In SC3 Ivy had the best ring out SE K, 6B+K. But they removed that in AE as SE 6B+K had become slower, but I am sure you can still do SE K, B+K6 for ring out in AE. Now for SC4 you can do on counter hit SE K, B+K6, and same for BD.

This is because of how the system is designed. Since I has WP 3B+K and when you do SE B+K6. First the system think your doing SE B+K, after after you input 6 the system registers that at WP 3B+K.

So the same principle for 9gB. If the want to make it slower they would have to make 9B slower but people can still do 9gB and it will still be faster.


For SW A+B. it should have a reduction in damage, like around 30 similar to BD.
But the Charge for the unblockable timing is perfect in SC4 as long as your doing the normal one, and not the fast version. But again damage must be reduced to like 50 or something. 100 is too much. BD made this move useless, as the charge time is longer.


214K I agree with ring about reducing the damage and making it faster, and maybe give advantage on hit. But what is this tool going to be used for? If this is used mainly for combos, then the input should be 214K, if it mainly use for poking the opponent the K2 should be the input.

214B-ring is right about that.



-----------------

Regarding CS and SS

First I think CS should be in WP and SW should have SS.

The reason why i Believed they change it and make CS in Sw and SS in WP is for aesthetic reasons. Look at her normal throws, her B+G grab is when her weapon is a sword, her A+G grab is when her weapon is a whip. Since A+G is for CS and B+g is for SS, I think they switch them, so that it make visual sense.

But I really want them to change it back, SS look so much more bas ass when you see the sword split apart and then rape them. The way it is now it comes and goes, you don't give it a second thought. I think this is also do the the animation. As it it to flashy and to much going on that you can't appreciate anything. SC3 SS had the best animation ; each piece you could see ripping the opponent.

CS just look better coming out of whip.



As for Inputs. I don't want to lose the current ones. What I want is for Ivy to have CS/SS avaiable out of SE using SC3 inputs 376231. Have Ivy have a return of her old Stance like SP or give a new stance, and have CS/SS avaiable ther using the current inputs 3214391/1236173. Then for he normal SW and WP stance give new inputs.

This way it give something new for Ivy players to learn, but also doesn't make all the previous training go in vain.
 
I played against an online Cervantes player who executes combos on a level that most offline players aren't even capable of doing consistently.
and for these offline players that you've witnessed is this only @ a tournament? Besides that the only player I can name who executes combos on such levels in high level play will be Kira. Another thing is that online the environment is completely different than facing in tournaments. Just like how you explain to Ring about tourney nerves and how it affects his game play it may just as well affect Babalook's game.

It's just like in casuals for Cervy players like me, ppl who have witnessed the way I play my Cervy would likely say the same way you would say to Babalook. Babalook and I play in zone that we both feel comfortable in; until we both travel to tournaments and face pressure that's right in our face it's just another beast to deal with.

...or 8wayrunned into a FC A+BBB punish from step (babalook does this ALL THE TIME) into a ground hit or a tech trap, you start to have a new perspective on who really needs to adapt their game.
Two questions. Does it depend in the direction he's stepping and does the direction he steps depends which side he's on?

Here's what's confusing to me though, according to Babalook he said doing things like this makes him feel uncomfortable and make him do worse during battle.

Sorry, B+K parry into full BT B+K combo. Can be done on reaction. Same with Sword stance. You simply have a lot of variables to deal with against a Cervantes player. You have to actually guess right to score damage or soul gauge pressure, it's not as mindless as people make it seem. You have tools like step (best one), 3A+B, FC A+BBB, and 44B against sword. A large part of Soul Calibur strategy is multicoverage and increasing the opponent's amount of variables in their pressure/mixup.
Now did he did do B+K BT B+K only to you? Or did you witness him doing this most of the time to other Ivy players online?

Also like I said to Ring I did use a lot of 3A+B, FC A+BBB GC, and 44B but it doesn't seem to work that well. I also tried B+K against Eli but he's not very predictable as you make it seem to be. In my case I find most of the time I attempted 3A+B, FC A+B GC and 44B I get interrupted by her 9B, and my FC A+B GC and 44B by her 214B.

Really what some people don't realize is that the only reason these low damage tools that Ivy has are good is that they force you to be passive in some way. Ivy can't simply afford to sit there and keep playing this risk/reward guessing game with Cervantes. She's gonna have to run up to you and try to do a mid/throw mixup eventually...and she's not exactly the strongest character in that regard.
Unless the Ivy player is patient and turtling and if she's ahead of Cervantes by a few hit points that's when she has the tools to push him away from her. As a Cervy player I have to be extremely cautious when doing bK, 11_77A, 44A, because I know against a player like Eli he can fend off using main 7_8_9B and perhaps 214B

I really wish people would take the time to sit down and study characters that they have problems with. I had to do it for Amy. Granted, I still lost against Thugish Pond, but for one he's no slouch in his own right, and for two, my local scene is dead and I didn't actually have a chance to practice against Amy - the only people I really played with were Babalook and IMT dragon on xbox live. But anyway, all of these so-called overpowered characters have their weaknesses. It just saddens me to see that Namco actually thinks Ivy needs big nerfs. The only character I've ever thought was overpowered was Hilde, and I still believe it has more to do with how certain stages are designed rather than the actual character itself. But hey, maybe it's because my own character is so OP. Hehe.
Well let me tell you something, I've been through things that I've don't like in the first place grind myself and manage to figure things out on my own and with the help of this community, but when a problem still persist and happens for a long time and you can't find the answers for yourself and from the community then it gets frustrating. I can't simply shut up and deal with it; I have to speak what I feel have to speak. It pisses me off that ppl overgeneralize complainers as ignorant without realizing what they have gone through. Sure if they didn't do any research and complain for a short period of time you can say that, but including those like myself who have been playing long, searching for answers and still struggling, that's not fair. Also consider that there are ppl who are just too busy with important matters that they have few time to spare and figure out stuff so when it comes to that that's when they use this site as reference which I still think needs more community effort to improve on rather than pointing the finger on ppl's ignorance.

Finally, I don't think Ivy needs big nerfs, but from my experience against playing Eli's and Senior's Ivy, I only felt that her 214B and 7_8_9B needs to be nerfed (unless you consider nerfing those two to be big nerfs). I agree with 214B not being able to track and I don't mind if Namco fix the BT issue, just as long as it can be stepped, fine. 7_8_9B I agree with Eli's way of nerfing; that switches into another stance.
 
Two questions. Does it depend in the direction he's stepping and does the direction he steps depends which side he's on?
Yeah, in general I believe it's easier to step to the right against Ivy. I haven't played in months so don't quote me on this.

Here's what's confusing to me though, according to Babalook he said doing things like this makes him feel uncomfortable and make him do worse during battle.

Now did he did do B+K BT B+K only to you? Or did you witness him doing this most of the time to other Ivy players online?

There hasn't been any other Ivy players on xbox live in a long, long time. Plus, the ones that did exist were too busy spamming 1B and 3A while in WP stance.

Also like I said to Ring I did use a lot of 3A+B, FC A+BBB GC, and 44B but it doesn't seem to work that well. I also tried B+K against Eli but he's not very predictable as you make it seem to be. In my case I find most of the time I attempted 3A+B, FC A+B GC and 44B I get interrupted by her 9B, and my FC A+B GC and 44B by her 214B.

You don't just "use alot" of something and expect results. You have to out think your opponent and guess right. The point I was trying to make is that Cervantes isn't completely lacking in tools to deal with SW. In fact, I think he has some of the better tools among the cast, which are: a retreating move, a safe pushback move, and last but not least: high reward whiff punishers from step. You're basically just naming specific counters that Ivy has to some of the moves I suggested. If Ivy couldn't counter those moves at all, then it would end up being mindless on your part. I just want to say one more thing, though:

The fact that Eli was forced to start using 9B which in itself is somewhat risky due to the fact that you can punish (aB, iGDR if you really expect it, or by simply stepping it) means that whatever you were doing was working. Once you make your opponent do what you want them to do, it's time to counter them. Luckily you have a character who can really make their life bar pay.

Unless the Ivy player is patient and turtling and if she's ahead of Cervantes by a few hit points that's when she has the tools to push him away from her. As a Cervy player I have to be extremely cautious when doing bK, 11_77A, 44A, because I know against a player like Eli he can fend off using main 7_8_9B and perhaps 214B

Ivy players in this situation tend to, like you said, use tools to push you away. How you respond depends on what stance they are in. Against WP you need some reaction ability. You need to be able to GI or aGI 6B+K. Ivy cannot continue to spam this move if you open up the possibilty to take so much health away from her for using it. She must either switch stances or using something else like 6B, 3A, or 6A. In that case I recommend either ducking (if she still chooses to do 6B+K and you can't react, you can still block the 2nd hit) or simply trying to run up and guard since she will no longer being doing moves that push you back.

If she switches to CL stance, it really ends up being the same mindgame.

Well let me tell you something, I've been through things that I've don't like in the first place grind myself and manage to figure things out on my own and with the help of this community, but when a problem still persist and happens for a long time and you can't find the answers for yourself and from the community then it gets frustrating. I can't simply shut up and deal with it; I have to speak what I feel have to speak. It pisses me off that ppl overgeneralize complainers as ignorant without realizing what they have gone through. Sure if they didn't do any research and complain for a short period of time you can say that, but including those like myself who have been playing long, searching for answers and still struggling, that's not fair. Also consider that there are ppl who are just too busy with important matters that they have few time to spare and figure out stuff so when it comes to that that's when they use this site as reference which I still think needs more community effort to improve on rather than pointing the finger on ppl's ignorance.

Finally, I don't think Ivy needs big nerfs, but from my experience against playing Eli's and Senior's Ivy, I only felt that her 214B and 7_8_9B needs to be nerfed (unless you consider nerfing those two to be big nerfs). I agree with 214B not being able to track and I don't mind if Namco fix the BT issue, just as long as it can be stepped, fine. 7_8_9B I agree with Eli's way of nerfing; that switches into another stance.

Among all the moves in this game that serve the purpose of increasing the amount of variables in the opponent's mixup, 214B in my opinion isn't really one of the better ones. I'm more afraid of Asura Dance, step in general, Xianghua 44B, Sophitia B+K (simply because of how much coverage it has).

214B has a bad combination of being risky and not being very rewarding. It goes into a stance with no real mixup, and if you choose to not enter SE, 214B on hit is actually like -7 or something. Not to mention that CL step is already amazing. 214B imo is very, very situational. I do agree though that against certain characters who can't heavily punish Ivy (at least with 50+ damage) that this move is too powerful.
 
Ring: Most BBs still leave you in mixup range on hit, whereas Ivy's SW BB does not. You can't just nerf the SG damage without reducing the pushback on hit. In fact I think this is the problem with reducing her SG damage in general. She would need her old CS/SS buffer system back if you really wanted to nerf her in this respect. Plus it's the only thing that really makes playing keepout worthwhile IMO.
 
To be honest, I didn't actually notice the SW BB pushback on hit. Most of her heavy SG moves knock down on hit anyway.

It's still a mystery how the CF system will evolve in the next game, but looking at BD, they made critical finishers much less useful due to 222A+B+K command which restores entire soul gauge for the price of your armor and can be used at any time once a match. This changes a lot, because it's difficult to CF somebody now. On the other hand, the damage on characters w/ destroyed "armor" automatically increases for about 25~30% if I remember well.

@Eli, the 9gB being i17 is because every TJ move done while holding [g] is one frame faster. I think they corrected this in the psp version.
 
Noface to fix this go to edit -> go to the very end and you see two of this [/quote] -> Highlight one of those two, cut (by pressing CTRL+X) -> Go to the very top and paste [/quote] right after my question Does it depend in the direction he's stepping and does the direction he steps depends which side he's on?

That's probably the reason why it looks like that. As for your advice I'll give it a try but one thing for sure Ivy's weak-side seems to be counter-clockwise. You can 8wayrun CC to avoid both Ivy's 214B and her 7_8_9B.
 
For SW A+B. it should have a reduction in damage, like around 30 similar to BD.
But the Charge for the unblockable timing is perfect in SC4 as long as your doing the normal one, and not the fast version. But again damage must be reduced to like 50 or something. 100 is too much. BD made this move useless, as the charge time is longer.

Thats alot of damage to knockoff being that that is our best unblockable. Its not like other characters that have 2 and some cases 3 good unblockables. We have one with decent speed and good damage thats pretty fair and if i remeber correct you cant step it to the left.
 
Babalook and Loloroco react to the fast SW unblockable online...

I mean really I don't mean to sound like I want their babies and I bet you all get sick of hearing about them...but really.

There is no excuse.

It's very simple - Are they close to you when they start charging it?

Yes - Step and whiff punish

No - Backdash and whiff punish

I only think this move is good when Ivy has you trapped against a corner and there is some distance between you and Ivy. Then you just have to interrupt which can be tricky depending on the range and which character you're using xD
 
I just think they should nerf the unblockable damage a bit is all. 80-90 is just to much. Some where around 75 damage would be fine, and just doing SW A+B should do some where around 40 . In BD they destroyed the timing, and now it too slow making it useless.

I also want CL 4A+B to be faster so that it can be more practical. I have actually landed this move a couple of time, at least once on everyone one in our community. I landed this on Woahhzz too. Once and it was online though, but still it was hilarious.
 
To make CL 4A+B

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a simple tracking would be enough and maybe an option to cancel it at any time. Even 100% tracking like old WP 6A+B shouldn't be overpowered given how slow this move is anyway.
 
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