SCIV DLC for SCBD not possible

[weshookhands]

(I'll just ignore the fact that you think any of the stages in SCIV belong to specific characters.)
Shouldn't a "new" stage that's a retool of an old stage be an EASIER thing to render as DLC than an actually new stage? I think you're overestimating the staggering file size it would take to insert a big wall and change the lighting conditions in an existing environment.

(I -obviously unlike you- don't know the stages' exact names by heart and thus needed some point of reference to explain what i was talking about. and you apparently understood which stage I meant. so i don't THINK every character has an own specific stage that only belongs to them alone. i just have absolutely no intention to ever learn all the stages, characters and historical connections between them, only so i could recite them to some pick-me-mrs-krabapple-i'm-ever-so-smart like you. peace.)

my point was that (referring to older posts of you, i think) bamco could no longer make the new stages available in online game when only one party had downloaded them as DLC...because then one player would have an invisible wall in said stage. that would have only been possible if the "new stages" involved different textures and lightning settings, but no more changes in space/walls/objects whatsoever. it was admittedly naive to think that bamco would not try to make money out of that. so they probably will tease everyone who hasn't paid for DLC. if at all they'll make an effort in bringing BD stuff to the PS3.

about Kratos: there won't be another kratos-moveset-character exclusive to 360. if i remember correctly, one of the developers promised that he will have his original moveset from GOW --> that means that they obviously used the moves they got from sony. which are sony copyrighted.

 

[PhilBond]

Oh, we're insulting people for knowing their stuff now? That should be fun. And who is the Ms. Krabapple that I'm sucking up to in this simile? No, if you're going to assault my intellectualism, it should be from the angle of my overbearing superiority complex, and my obvious disgust at well-meaning casual fans who try to make deductions from shaky footing. -Yourself not included. Calm down.

You're right that a new wall is an issue, but it's not necessarily as big an issue as you think, or it's much bigger than you realize. There are facets to the issue. I'm guessing you were entertaining the notion that online, these variant stages would not even appear to those who don't have them, appearing instead as their regular-lighting versions? We can agree to throw that out. There are at least a couple examples in the other variant stages of functional modifications. My offer of a solution is contained in that oh-so-cumbersome list of stage names that seem to pain you. Here, ten months ago, I predicted based on the stage names that there were variant stages in the game, by which I meant that they were already on the disc. I still think that they're there, just like Yoda and Vader and all the costume pieces were. That's part of a conspiracy theory of mine, really. Here it is, because I know you're dieing to hear it:

[crazy theory]
Chronological cause and effect:
1. SCI and SCII are wildly successful releases for Namco.
2. SCIII falls well short of financial expectations.
3. SCIV is developed and released with a planned timetable of on-disc DLC releases.
4. SCIV is declared a successful release, which had to be proven after the failures of SCIII.
5. SCBD is greenlit almost immediately.
6. With an eye toward eventually promoting SCBD, the DLC timetable of SCIV is prematurely halted as certain items are selected to be withheld and touted as new features of the next game. The sudden availability of new items in both games will cheaply manufacture a perception of synergy between both games: legitimizing both, promoting both, with less new design work required.
7. $$$
[/crazy theory]

I've talked about this kind of thing before. If you look at Namco's other current-generation releases, it's surprising how little DLC there is for SCIV so-far. It costs over $100 to fully unlock Ace Combat 6. Beautiful Katamari has half of the game locked away as DLC. Their Idolm@ster series is an infamous, epic money sink. Compared to those games, SCIV looks like a weak little sissy in terms of robbing customers. Instinctively (and for other reasons), I say there has to be more. They're just biding their time.

I've been thinking about starting a thread with a new study of the stages, including the ones that carried over as variants from SC3. Maybe I'll accelerate that project just for you, my new good buddy Weshookhands.

 

[Ooofmatic]

If I only had a modified Xbox 360, I could swap some files on the disc and see if the hidden stages and other DLC are really on there. =\

I remember someone did something similar with SC4 before Vader got released as DLC, and they proved that he was already on the disc.

 

[PhilBond]

Well, some stuff plainly has to be: like the Arcturus CAS parts, the smooth Lizardman head and the skull head. I can't believe nobody's done any more known hacking than the Vader unlock. I imagine SCIV would be a magical hacking wonderland. You remember all the great gamesharkable stuff in SCIII.

 

[ShenOu]

SCII Gameshark wuz moar fun ^^

 

[weshookhands]

Oh, we're insulting people for knowing their stuff now?

no, we're insulting people for NOT knowing YOUR stuff now. *cough* seriously, if you cannot take a slight pinch of sarcasm, don't use it on me, please. use your wisdom to like -you know- totally educate me, but don't use it to push me down. because i'm not ever-so-smart. at least when it comes to SC. i don't mean to insult or offend you. let's be fwuends.

totally agree on your point, btw.

 

[SBA]

ketsup is awesome

 

[Kamatari]

Correct me if im wrong, but arent these two diffrent game, on being on psp? Or is this something new they it's also coming to 360/ps3 o.O?

 

[SBA]

^^^??? there is only one game coming out, Soulcalibur IV: Broken Destiny for the PSP.

We are discussing if there is going to be DLC from it for the PS3/360 version of Soulcalibur IV.

 

[Windstar]

Well, some stuff plainly has to be: like the Arcturus CAS parts, the smooth Lizardman head and the skull head. I can't believe nobody's done any more known hacking than the Vader unlock. I imagine SCIV would be a magical hacking wonderland. You remember all the great gamesharkable stuff in SCIII.

We already knew the Christmas and Halloween CAS pieces were included in the disc. The problem isn't that SC4 can't offer new DLC. The problem is the online infrastructure can't really support it without a massive re-write.

Look at it this way: SC4 basically checks your hard drive to see if you have the unlocking codes for the DLC (Halloween/Vader/Yoda/Christmas). It also checks your game version. If the game version is incompatible with network version, it updates it to the proper version.

Now, SC4's online infrastructure is very simple. It only needs to check if there are player's online and ready to play. Players who have DLC can play with others who don't have the DLC, because it's all on the disc, there's no need to for a call or check on the hard drive to see if non-DLC players have the DLC because there's no need to, it's all on the disc.

Now if Namco were to offer DLC via PSN or Xbox Marketplace, it would require that SC4's network code be overhauled so that it could identify what players have that DLC and what players don't. Then SC4's network service needs to filter out those that don't have it. The reason is because, without the DLC being on the disc, players that don't have the Broken Destiny DLC wouldn't not be able to play with player's that do. There is no way around it, the very code that does all this would fundamentally clash and simply break both player's games (not literally, just produce loads of errors).

The only way this would work, is if Namco produced a patch (say patch 1.10 or 1.5) that would radically overhaul the code, install the Broken Destiny content to the player's hard drive (and lock it out) so that SC4 players could continue playing. Then player's could purchase the DLC from PSN or Marketplace and play the game that way. This is generally not a sound idea. Installing data on to a hard drive (much less a console hard drive) with lockouts leads to some moral and ethical issues, not to mention, could be hacked and unlocked.

The other possibility is to offer the DLC as a full-fledged expansion, which would, again require a massive re-write on SC4's network code to identify it as a brand new version (say 2.0) that current SC4 owners would not be able to download freely. This would allow the network code to identify which players have and do not have latest version of the game and filter them out, preventing them from playing with those that do. This is the more sound idea, but marketing a full-fledged expansion to a game via online only may or may not be viable. While DLC content has proven somewhat profitable, it is still a risky venture. And it may not be that profitable depending on the cost that Namco Bandai would need to spend. Pricing, marketing and development time for an expansion that is download only, may not reach the entire market that SC4 garnered (not every console owner has a hard drive or high-speed internet or both). Not only that, expansions packs are typically unheard of in Japanese markets and companies.

You can argue about Idolmaster, et al. But Namco was clearly targeting a market that would buy these things (furthermore, many of the DLC games that Namco has made, don't have competitive online play like SC4). The marketability and profitability of DLC largely depends on whether the market (ie: consumers) want it. A forum group of long-time, die-hard SC fans is certainly one market. But its a niche group, and while that profit is semi-guaranteed; it may not be enough to justify the cost of making the expansion in the first place.

 

[andur]

The only way this would work, is if Namco produced a patch (say patch 1.10 or 1.5) that would radically overhaul the code, install the Broken Destiny content to the player's hard drive (and lock it out) so that SC4 players could continue playing. Then player's could purchase the DLC from PSN or Marketplace and play the game that way. This is generally not a sound idea. Installing data on to a hard drive (much less a console hard drive) with lockouts leads to some moral and ethical issues, not to mention, could be hacked and unlocked.

The other possibility is to offer the DLC as a full-fledged expansion, which would, again require a massive re-write on SC4's network code to identify it as a brand new version (say 2.0) that current SC4 owners would not be able to download freely. This would allow the network code to identify which players have and do not have latest version of the game and filter them out, preventing them from playing with those that do. This is the more sound idea, but marketing a full-fledged expansion to a game via online only may or may not be viable. While DLC content has proven somewhat profitable, it is still a risky venture. And it may not be that profitable depending on the cost that Namco Bandai would need to spend. Pricing, marketing and development time for an expansion that is download only, may not reach the entire market that SC4 garnered (not every console owner has a hard drive or high-speed internet or both). Not only that, expansions packs are typically unheard of in Japanese markets and companies.

There are a couple of other options here:

They can include in the patch, only the parts of BD required for online play (the characters and stages). So, they wouldn't have to stick the new single player modes for example in it, so, that part would be safe from being hacked.

They could also just add in another set of "game modes" along-side standard and special, so there would be "Broken Destiny Versus Standard" and "Broken Destiny Versus Special" which would be the only modes in which the new stuff would be allowed. The net code can already filter based on what game type you are playing, so, there would be very minimal effort required to do this (its not pretty, but, it would work).

 

[PhilBond]

We already knew the Christmas and Halloween CAS pieces were included in the disc.

We did not know that, and by the way, WTF is with the gargantuan tirade of fundamentals apparently directed at me? Barking up the wrong tree, guy.

They can include in the patch, only the parts of BD required for online play (the characters and stages). So, they wouldn't have to stick the new single player modes for example in it, so, that part would be safe from being hacked.

You're the first person I've heard express interest/concern/thought as to single player-specific content. While it could show up and not surprise anybody, I don't think anybody cares. If you really want those modes (and I do), then you play the PSP game.

 

[Burned_Pancakes]

Some of this has already been done... If you look at Fable 2, the dlc that Lionhead releases comes in two options: the actual pack that allows you to use/play the add-on and the free version which allows you to play in a friend's world that has the add-on. Namco could easily do something similar to this... Title updates are usually really small unless it's a big update in which they would add/remove features... Since there hasn't been an update since December?(I can't exactly remember...) there should be one pretty soon and it could include a "downloads" tab and a HUGE notification saying to download the add-on to at least be able to view the new content... The Broken Destiny may not even be offered as DLC so that Namco would force more people to purchase the PSP game or release it as DLC some time after it... For all we know, there could easily be something coming out this July for the one-year anniversary of its release...

 

[PhilBond]

Since there hasn't been an update since December?(I can't exactly remember...) there should be one pretty soon

Yeah, right. Next you'll be saying we're due for an update to Starcraft because there hasn't been one in about ten years. That doesn't make sense.

 

[skytoast]

If I only had a modified Xbox 360, I could swap some files on the disc and see if the hidden stages and other DLC are really on there. =\

I remember someone did something similar with SC4 before Vader got released as DLC, and they proved that he was already on the disc.

if only it were that simple.. you'll need CRIware SDK as everything is encrypted. I would go the way to do that only to extract voice vocals for machinima. (Every past Soul Calibur game had a voice library in character profiles among other things (i.e. exhibition museum) except Soul Calibur IV. I cant stand the announcer guy marring every character's speech without an option to turn him off).

I'm not so sure how Namco would decide on additional DLC for SCIV in lieu of SCBD. We can only hope. But if past actions are any indication, I'm not keeping my hopes high. NamcoBandai is notorious for providing measily DLC (or perhaps no DLC really). Case in point look at Ace Combat 6. Just nothing but pretty paint jobs with the occasional IdolMaster motif (another marketing ploy). The rest is just rehashed stuff on disc like Co-op single player missions and aircraft performance tweaks. Not a single new aircraft or weapons model was ever introduced as an expansion.

We all know that all the content for SCIV was already on disc. To me, it just feels like SCIV from the get go was a rushed product probably due to executive decision to get the game quickly to market. I'm more optimisitic that I'll see Soul Calibur V before I'll ever see some kind of derived DLC based off Soul Calibur Broken Destiny. First and foremost, they are targeting the Japanese market and then the rest of the world. (Although I wish they would take cues from other Japanese companies like Capcom,Konami and Square Enix that are starting to realize stronger demands in international markets like USA/Europe). Console sales arent really doing well over there much less gaming in general especially in current economic conditions. Handhelds on the otherhand are much stronger so its only natural to port over what they already had. Whether we like it or not, at the end of the day, its all about money and sales.

If we do ever see a new iteration of SC on console, I dont see why Kratos couldnt be considered for PS3. I'm sure the 360 could come up with its own thing.. another Halo spartan? lol why not just do a Ninja Gaiden/DOA/SC crossover while we're at it.. =p {sarcasm} I'd expect to see new DLC for SCIV perhaps but most likely it'll probably be the Premium content CAS clothing that was SUPPOSE to be exclusive (at least here in the USA) to the limited edition of the game just like Vader/Yoda were to their respective consoles, now available to everyone else (for a price) - and yes all of it was already on disc on every version of the game to begin with.

 

[andur]

Yeah, right. Next you'll be saying we're due for an update to Starcraft because there hasn't been one in about ten years. That doesn't make sense.

Actually Starcraft is still being patched due to its massive popularity. The last patch was apparently on Jan 21, 2009. But, that is the ridiculously rare exception to the rule.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Broken Destiny may not be patched on to console. Isn't the licensing for Kratos a PS exclusive?

 

[PhilBond]

Know who else belongs to Sony? The Ghostbusters.

 

[T_T]

tekken 5 dark ressurection. it was a $15 download from ps store because legally, they couldn't resell a different version of the same game as a new game.

personally i hope for the same thing with sc4:bd. it's still soul calibur 4, just with new characters, additional moves, and tweaked frames.

so i'm still hopefull sc4:bd will be on ps3/xoox. licensing is not an issue because it's already a cross platform game.

 

[PhilBond]

it was a $15 download from ps store because legally, they couldn't resell the same version of the game as a new game.

This sentence doesn't make any sense to me. I want to pick it apart completely, but it's too confusing. Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection for PS3 is "the same version of the same game" as something else? It was priced at $15 because "legally," they couldn't sell it as a new game? Or is it that "legally," they couldn't call it a new game?

What kind of wild-eyed pixie dust laws are we referring to here? It's like looking into the heart of madness.