SCIV Ivy General Discussion & FAQ

[PlayerRay01]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

catch me on live if you want to get some Ivy fights in.

Not today though bro took the 360 to play madden with his friends >;[
And I suck with Ivy right now since I just picked her up.....But thanks I really appreciate it .Anyways, I'll try to find you tomorrow on XboxLive :}

 

[T-Licious]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

Well just took up Ivy as a main and currently trying to learn these two things for now
1: Transitioning from WS,SS and CS effortlessly in battle

That is not easy. If you're new to SC4 Ivy, my personal recommendation is not to try to learn all the stance changes at first (they're complicated). Focus instead on one stance and master it, then graduate into the others.

Especially, for Ivy beginners, KNOW THIS: Whip State and Sword State do not play well with each other at all. There are no straight transitions from WS to SS or vice versa, you will always need to transition through Coiled State or Serpent's Embrace to get between Whip and Sword. Ivy's stance chart is an oval not a circle.

Therefore, for Ivy beginners:
DEFINITELY learn at least some basic Coiled State moves, since that is where you start.
But you must CHOOSE to focus on EITHER advanced Whip State OR advanced Sword State moves, NOT BOTH.

Once you've mastered either Sword or Whip, you will have naturally started to expand into both Coiled Stance or Serpent's Embrace moves as well. At this point you'll be playing with an extremely advanced and complicated moveset.

As an Ivy master, you might conceivably be able to mix the stances up enough to throw out Whip and Sword attacks in the same round, but this is mostly inadvisable. Even the best of Ivy players, that have mastered both Whip and Sword, are going to walk into each round having chosen between the two, not planning to mix between them.

The best advice an SC4 Ivy beginner can receive is... choose Whip or Sword and then stick to it until you've mastered it.... avoid the other stance at all costs until then.

 

[ZDamned]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

That is not easy. If you're new to SC4 Ivy, my personal recommendation is not to try to learn all the stance changes at first (they're complicated). Focus instead on one stance and master it, then graduate into the others.

Especially, for Ivy beginners, KNOW THIS: Whip State and Sword State do not play well with each other at all. There are no straight transitions from WS to SS or vice versa, you will always need to transition through Coiled State or Serpent's Embrace to get between Whip and Sword. Ivy's stance chart is an oval not a circle.

Therefore, for Ivy beginners:
DEFINITELY learn at least some basic Coiled State moves, since that is where you start.
But you must CHOOSE to focus on EITHER advanced Whip State OR advanced Sword State moves, NOT BOTH.

Once you've mastered either Sword or Whip, you will have naturally started to expand into both Coiled Stance or Serpent's Embrace moves as well. At this point you'll be playing with an extremely advanced and complicated moveset.

As an Ivy master, you might conceivably be able to mix the stances up enough to throw out Whip and Sword attacks in the same round, but this is mostly inadvisable. Even the best of Ivy players, that have mastered both Whip and Sword, are going to walk into each round having chosen between the two, not planning to mix between them.

The best advice an SC4 Ivy beginner can receive is... choose Whip or Sword and then stick to it until you've mastered it.... avoid the other stance at all costs until then.

This advice for beginners is great, and I wouldn't question it for a second.
However as far as your Ivy master player comment, I must disagree... The reason Ivy is considerable for tournament play is purely the fact that she has the tools for every situation. If you tell someone to go up against Asta in Sword, You will more than likely eat alot of damage just getting close enough to hit him. That doesn't mean sword is not a good way to fight Asta... It's just not equipped with the tools to get inside to him. Coil will do better at that, and Whip can punish him if he wants to toss out random PT's and such to keep you away a little. Ivy is NOT a rush down, or a 1 trick pony. You need to be aware of what you are capable of in order to dominate every situation.
That being said, heed his words! Master each stance one at a time, as you will require in depth strategies on how they work in order to stay that 1 step up on your opponent.

 

[T-Licious]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

@ZDamned, thanks. Criticism on the point accepted and agreed with.

@LargeBillsOnly, I don't think your comment is beneficial for Ivy beginners, to whom my post was directed. Learning the flow between CS/SS/SE, or CS/WS/SE, is already a fairly tall order for anyone learning a new character. Closing the gap between SS and WS shouldn't even be on the 'to-do' list of an Ivy-learner unless they have already mastered each of the first two. If you moved directly from beginner to intermediate Ivy play from a standpoint of transitioning through both SS and WS in each round, I would congratulate you as a genius, but suspect that you haven't mastered either stance. If that is working out for you, then keep rolling with it, obviously. But I think it's irresponsible of you to recommend that approach to most beginning Ivy players.

 

[LargeBillsONLY]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

Heh, I think it's 'irresponsible' to recommend to beginners a style of play that fosters the bad habit of using one-third of Ivy's moveset.

As for being good with Ivy, I'm good enough that I regularly flow from starting in WP to SW not just during a fight, but mid-combo, going from WP (3) to SE(4B+K) into CL([B+K] 4), and then finally SW(B+K, 214K). I'm not sure what Ivy players you're used to, but this isn't master-level technique bro. Flowing from stance to stance mid-move, mid-combo, and obviously mid-fight is a must. If you can't do it you shouldn't be using Ivy, period, so it's probably the very first thing ANY Ivy player needs to learn.

And it's hardly "inadvisable" in high-level play.

 

[T-Licious]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

Three quarters, not one third, sir. Please don't misrepresent me. My comment stands. Thanks for your opinion of it, though. It must be assumed, of course, that there will be multiple perspectives on the issue, and I am sure that we are all grateful that you have shared yours. I, for one, certainly am.

 

[LargeBillsONLY]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

Hardly unique, as I've never seen anyone recommend not using multiple stances as Ivy before. But you're welcome!

 

[T-Licious]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

Clearly we would all be very pleased if you could find some time to reply with some more of your easy SS + WS tactics. I'm sure that a lot of players that are just beginning to learn Ivy, could learn a lot from you.

 

[Sora]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

Hi guys, name's Sora/soraky, relatively new to these forums at least. I've been trying to find the best Ivy players both offline and online; sadly, I'm the only Ivy apparently in Norcal and I've been hard-pressed in finding a better Ivy than myself online. (not tooting my own horn, I actually WANT to be beaten. I learn more that way)

Anyway, OT, I disagree as well with learning only WP or SW exclusively. The character matchup argument has already made itself apparent (Ivy in WP versus a Taki is not a good thing for Ivy), but also that it shuts down your respective command throw (since its easily broken) as well as really makes your Ivy that much more predictable. I'm a firm believer in that Ivy's strength mainly comes from her ability to change stances in a heartbeat in the middle of ANY move, so going through all 3 of her free flowing stances is vital.

 

[WareEaglesDare]

Ivy General Discussion (Post Random Stuff Here)

OK, first off, I need to address this before more posts get butchered and new readers start getting confused.
WS = While Standing WP = Ivy Whip Stance CL = Ivy Coil Stance SW = Ivy Sword stance SE = Ivy Serpent's Embrace SS = Summon Suffering (Ivy command throw from WP) CS = Calamity Symphony (Ivy command throw from SW)

Please refrain from adding what may make more sense to you but isn't the commonly accepted verbage as things will get confusing. I didn't make the rules that's just what is used.

Now, I see two sides to many things. Here, it is important to learn to transition between stances fluidly for combos and mix ups. But, if you don't take the time to learn each stance in depth on their own, you will be less familiar with what you have available if said set-up doesn't work and you are stuck fishing for the same 1 or 2 combos. WP up close is deadly, SW works well ranged, Ivy is capable of dealing wicked damage from any distance at any given time, you just have to know what you're doing. I can vouch for large bills, his Ivy is pretty nice, I think I am better with CS though ;)

Side Note: LargeBillsONLY: I hate your Mina!

Lastly, a quick combo using 3 stances:
CL A+B A+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214 K (I left out redundant stance change notations as it was decided in a thread, I don't remember which one, that if you're using Ivy it's understood that if there's a change in stance you should know how to do it)
If you want combo discussion there's a thread with just about every one you can hope to think of here: http://www.8wayrun.com/f29/ivys-combos-t38/

 

[dittO]

- All this info has been taken directly from CaliburForum.

- Many thanks to Angrel-San and every other member of the
community that has helped in the compilation of all these data.

- I have also done my best into double-checking all of these
and I can say with certainty that this list is 100% correct. However
If you happen to find any mistakes, feel free to point them out.

- Finally, just mentioning that I have partially edited this list, only to
improve the way it looks rather than the actual content.

Ivy's Soul Damage Info is as following:
(The number shows how many blocked hits of each move will cause a Soul Crush)
[Updated for version 1.03]

Coiled State:

Horizontals (CL)
A = 50+
AA = 41 (Breaks at 1st hit)
AA+K = 50+
6AK = 41 (Breaks at 1st hit)
3A = 50+
2A = 50+
1A = 50+
4A = 20
FCA = 50+
WSA = 50+
WSAA = 35 (Breaks at 2nd hit)
7_8_9A = 20

Verticals (CL)
B = 20
BB = 16 (Breaks at 1st hit)
6B = 10
3B = 10
2B = 20
1B = 20
1BB+K = 16 (Breaks at 1st hit)
4B = 41 (Breaks at 1st hit)
236B = 15
236BB = 13 (Breaks at 1st hit)
214B = 11 (Breaks at 1st hit)
FCB = 20
WSB = 10
7_8_9B = 10

Kicks (CL)
K = 50+
6K = 50+
3K = 20
2K = 50+
1K = 14
4K = 14
FCK = 50+
WSK = 50+
7_8_9K = 50+

Simultaneous (CL)
A+B = 50+
A+BA = 36
6A+B = 10
WSA+B = 32 (Breaks at 2nd hit)
BTA+B = 10

8WR (CL)
66A = 15
33A = 20
22A = 50+
11A = 13
66B = 13
66BA = 12 (Breaks at 1st hit)
33B = 10
33B (Mashing) = 9
22B = 15
44B = 20
44BB = 16 (Breaks at 1st hit)
66K = 50+
22K = 12
44K = 50+

Sword State:

Horizontals (SW)
A = 50+
AA = 41 (Breaks at 1st hit)
6A = 50+
3A = 20
2A = 50+
1A = 50+
4A = 20
FCA = 50+
WSA = 20
7_8_9A = 20

Verticals (SW)
B = 20
BB = 10 (Breaks at 2nd hit)
6B = 50+
6 = 50+
6B8 = 15
6B8K = 14 (Breaks at 1st hit)
3B = 10
2B = 15
1B = 11
4B = 20
FCB = 20
FC3B = 11
WSB = 10
7_8_9B = 16

Kicks (SW)
K = 50+
6K = 50+
3K = 50+
2K = 50+
1K = 50+
1KB = 50+
1KBK = 50+
4K = 14
214K = 50+
FCK = 50+
WSK = 50+
7_8_9K = 50+

Simultaneous (SW)
A+B = 10
6A+B = 10
2A+B = 11
WSA+B = 32 (Breaks at 2nd hit)
1_2_3B+K = 9
2A+K = 50+
BTA+B = 10
8B+K = 50+
8B+KK = 22

8WR (SW)
66A = 20
22A = 14
44A = 13
66B = 10
22B = 10
44B = 20
66K = 20
44K = 11

Whip State:

Horizontals (WP)
A = 50+
AA = 41
6A = 50+
6AA = 31 (Breaks at 1st hit)
3A = 50+
2A = 50+
1A = 50+
1AA = 41 (Breaks at 1st hit)
4A = 20
FCA = 50+
WSA = 20
7_8_9A = 20

Verticals (WP)
B = 15
BB = 13 (Breaks at 1st hit)
6B = 10
6bA+B = 29
3B = 50+
2B = 50+
1B = 13 (Breaks at last hit)
4B = 13 (Breaks at 1st hit)
FCB = 50+
FC3B = 11
FC3A+B = 9 (Breaks at 1st hit, blocking BOTH hits); 33 (Blocking ONLY A+B)
WSB = 15
WSBB = 13 (Blocking BOTH hits); 24 (Blocking ONLY 2nd hit)
7_8_9B = 10

Kicks (WP)
K = 50+
6K = 50+
3K = 20
2K = 50+
1K = 14
4K = 14
FCK = 50+
WSK = 50+
7_8_9K = 50+

Simultaneous (WP)
A+B = 50+
6A+B = 26
3A+BA+B = 22
4A+B = 42 (Breaks at 1st hit)
4A+BB = ~35~
WSA+B = 32 (Breaks at 2nd hit)
BTA+B = 10
6B+K = 10
6B+K_2_8 = 9 (Breaks at 1st hit)
1_2_3B+K = 50+

8WR (WP)
66A = 13
22A = 21
11A = 14
44A = 15
66B = 10
33B = 10
22B = 10
44B = 50+
44BB = 41 (Breaks at 1st hit)
66K = 50+
22K = 12
44K = 50+
66A+B = 50+
44A+BA+B = 9 (Breaks at 1st hit)

Serpent's Embrace Stance:

B = 50+
BB = 50+
BBB = 50+
B:6B:4B:6B:4B = 18 (Breaks at 4th hit)
K = 16
66K = 20
B+K = 50+
A+K = 14

 

[dittO]

Ivy's Soul Gauge Damage Data

- CL33B (Mashing) = 9 : The most SG damaging move of CL. The non mashable version of this move is still SG damaging enough: CL33B = 10 (However, the mash version is only -3 on block while the non mashable version is -16 on block). Range and pushback are not that good though. Hits mid.
- CL6B = 10 : Nice range and pushback. Hits mid and it's -10 on block.
- CL3B = 10 : Nice range and pushback. It's -15 on block, but it becomes much safer* If it is used with a transition (A+K or B+K).
- CLWSB = 10 : Very good and deceptive range. Hits mid and force-crouches opponent for possible GI options. Learning to use this instantly (iCLWSB), may become a very useful tool for CL, combining, both safety and range. On block it's only -5.
- CL7_8_9B = 10 : Hits mid and force-crouches opponent for possible GI options. Not very useful in general, because it's somewhat slow and easily recognizable (Easily steppable or GI-able by the opponent).
- CL6A+B = 10 : Probably the most ranged move of CL. Depending on how close/far is being used, it affects the safety of this move (Character dependent also of course). Also, it has some uses as a force-guard attack, especially whenever the opponent is knocked-down AND away from Ivy, you can use this against opponents that tend to stand up quickly so that they'll have to block it (Once again remember that range is the key). Also, it's not smart to abuse this move, because it is very easily steppable.
- CLBTA+B = 10 : Can be used for SG damage, but VERY situationally (ex: Opponent flashes red and after SWWSB you can delay this move a bit, so the opponent will have to choose between receiving damage (Relaunching for the old ~106 damage combo) or a possible KO by CF. In general though, Ivy's gameplay does not encourage ANY kind of BT move to be useful for her CF-game.
- CL214B = 11 (Breaks at 1st hit) : Being a very good evasive move, naturally, this move is NOT for CF-gaming. Not only is VERY unsafe on block, but also consists of 2 uncancelable hits (The 1st one being much more powerful than the 2nd, in terms of SG damage), that can cause a CF loss. The same applies for CL214 as well.
- CL66BA = 12 (Breaks at 1st hit) : Nice range but not that good pushback. Using both hits of this move may cause a CF loss, because the 1st hit is much more powerful than the 2nd, in terms of SG damage. You can also use only the 1st hit of this move: CL66B = 13, which is a bit safer than the 2-hit version. Both attacks hit mid.
- CL22_88K = 12 : Being safe AND hitting mid AND being a kick, this move may sometimes be useful for CF-gaming. Kicks, are usually deceptive for CF-gaming, because opponents do not afraid them that much and usually block them. Also, in certain occasions, kicks are auto-GI proof. This move, also, sometimes is hard to be GIed, because of its animation. Range and pushback are not good though.
- CL236BB = 13 (Breaks at 1st hit) : As most 2-hit (or multi-hit) attacks, this move is no exception. Using both hits of this move may cause a CF loss, because the 1st hit is much more powerful than the 2nd, in terms of SG damage. However, its VERY good range, combined with the fact that Ivy can be "air-controlled" (Thus making this move safe/safer, character dependant of course) while doing this move, makes it a very good force-guarding tool (Having oki properties, is an extra advantage as well). I would definitely recommend this move against certain characters, but only as a way to cause the opponent at most the flashing red life gauge. Anything more than that can cause an unwanted CF loss. Using only the 1st hit of this move: CL236B = 15, is not recommended at all.
- CL11_44_77A = 13 : Being relatively safe and horizontal, it doesn't make this move useful for Ivy's CF game (Or for Ivy's gameplay in general). Range and pushback are not anything worth mentioning either. Hits high.
- CL1K = 14 : Comparing this kick with CL22_88K, there are not any major differences in terms of range and pushback. One of them gains in speed and the other one in SG damage. It's a bit easier to be GIed though. Hits mid.
- CL4K = 14 : Not only a very useful kick for Ivy's gameplay in general, but it is also good for her CF game as well. Apart from the decent SG damage it causes, it also has good range and pushback (Compared with other SG damaging kicks), as well as speed. Hits mid.
- CL66A = 15 : Very good and VERY deceptive range. Pushback is ok. Using this move at its maximum range, can easily make the opponent think twice before stepping, as it can catch any step. Speed, safety and sidestep-catching, can actually make this move viable for Ivy's CF gaming. Hits high though, so don't abuse/overuse it.
- CL22B = 15 : Not very good for CF gaming, mainly because of its speed. However, it has some uses mostly because of its oki properties (Forcing sometimes opponent stand-up guarding it) and because it's only -2 on block and force-crouches opponent, so it creates some "at best" decent frame traps (Most of them being character dependent or opponent being ignorant of the slight disadvantage Ivy has). Hits mid.

 

[Pazuzuxul]

CL 214B_, Abuse Or Not?

..be honest, I do, it seems to be one of Ivy's safest moves, and it puts her into SE, which has a few speedy options (K, and the tracking BB). I've noticed that on block, Sophitia's 236 B punishes it horribly, any other situations in which it's bad to throw out?

edit: CL*, sorry about the CS... :P

 

[dittO]

Who abuses CS 214 B?

it seems to be one of Ivy's safest moves

Sophitia's 236 B punishes it horribly

How can any move be safe...If it is punished? ;)

any other situations in which it's bad to throw out?

What you are asking here, is a very long list "of situations".
This move can be punished with various ways by many (perhaps all) characters.

Throw this wisely. In my area, there are even people trying to bait CL 214B_s out of me, in order to punish me. I don't know whom you are playing against, but If they learn how to deal with this, you'll realize that a more clever strategy is needed for a CL 214B_-wise game.

(of course, don't misunderstand me here, this move is a great tool. But not that great to be abused...)

 

[Pazuzuxul]

Who abuses CS 214 B?

How can any move be safe...If it is punished? ;)

What you are asking here, is a very long list "of situations".
This move can be punished with various ways by many (perhaps all) characters.

Throw this wisely. In my area, there are even people trying to bait CL 214B_s out of me, in order to punish me. I don't know whom you are playing against, but If they learn how to deal with this, you'll realize that a more clever strategy is needed for a CL 214B_-wise game.

(of course, don't misunderstand me here, this move is a great tool. But not that great to be abused...)

I suppose I ask because I have played my fair share of skilled players, and aside from the Sophitia incident, it still seems to be one of Ivy's best moves. I was just wondering if there were any match ups in particular in which this move fails. I don't even bother with it anymore against a good Soph.

 

[Thatman_Blaze]

whats up everyone im an experienced tekken player but i am new to Soul Calibur.


i was originally playing with the normal button settings just like tekken but i found out that it should be a little something like this

abk
g

which is fine but i was just wondering since button mapping is allowed how do you guys set you your buttons for ivy? do you just use the standard buttons or am i working way too hard at that and should be mapping A+K and B+K if so..where do i go?



plus...ive been trying CS/SS for a long time now but i just cant do it. i can hit it about 2 times out of a 100 but its ugly just to get there..ive been at it for about a month and half or so straight for about 3 hours a day alone but im stuck. and even if i do hit it i supposedly "move way too much" i dont understand how people can do it even from a block stun so fast. i cant be accurate while hitting it too fast because it doesnt seem to register all of my directions even though i know i am hitting them.

small amount of help...i have tried the figure 8 method and the two half circle method also..still no luck..

thanks for your time

 

[dittO]

Hello Thatman_Blaze!
Welcome to the Ivy Soul Arena!

For your SS/CS questions I'll reply to the respective thread.
Check there a bit later ;)

 

[dittO]

@Thatman_Blaze

Just bind your buttons as you see fit.
Personally, I use a PS3 pad, but I use it (hold it) somewhat unorthodox. Holding it with my left hand placed on my laps. Left thumb on d-pad and fingers close to L1 and L2 (where i bind A+G and B+G respectively), my right arm is using the 4 buttons (default settings) but in the way you use them on a stick. So you could say that I'm playing on PS3 pad, but I'm holding it like a stick...LOL

As for button mapping, as i said I place A+G at L1 and B+G at L2 (although sometimes I don't use them, and play only with the basic 4), and lastly I bind the CF button at R1.

 

[Thatman_Blaze]

ok the question now is punishment. i hear that ivy can punish well. i know most punishment with her is going to be completely situation because of having to take note of the stance you are in but what moves in general do we get to punish with? we should maybe start a punishment thread with individual characters and moves and what ivy can get. i know some other SA have these types of things so why not develop one for her?

 

[Ring]

Ivy can punish well.. but only in Sword state. That's where the best punishing tools are (4B, 1K and 6B9K). CL and WP are much worse when it comes to punishing. Their fastest move (K) is negative on hit. I use mostly these moves for punishing:

SW: 4B, 1K, 6B9K, 6, 6K
CL: K, AA, 6K, 2A,
WP: K, 2K, 3A, 6K

6B9K is really great. i13, ~35dmg and positive on hit.