SCV Tier List

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if anything, the patch should address issues first and foremost, whiffing issues, bugs should be ironed out before we can even start talking about nerfs, because nerfing/buffing a moves may unintentionally introduce new bugs.
 
imho they should just lock team tekken in a room and then discuss the balance with the remaining team soul u.u
Then they can ignore players complaints.
But as long as tekken devs are in team soul well i expect the worse.....
 
darkfender said:
boosting...nerfing

This game needs balance...
Every character included raph, zwei and sieg has his broken moves.....
In scIV we had good moves and situational moves.

In scV we have broken moves and useless moves

Nerf and boost the moves NOT the characters....characters needs balance.
I don t wanna see godlike wrBE with players saying "we have just that" (aside it being wrong) or whiffing moves that keeps priority and rapes guard or half health i12 punishers etc etc etc.

I don t care if characters have other weaknesses with a system like this matchups will be one sided forever :|

It sucks to think wich half of your moveset you cannot use against every character.....

This game is really the celebration of low risk safe spammable moves....thing you couldn t do in scIV
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I really can't think of many moves in this game that can yet be considered 'broken'. Even stuff like Natsu's 2A+B into air grab is frustrating rather than outright 'broken'. And claiming that SCIV didn't have broken moves is ridiculous - they outright banned two of the main characters due to how imbalanced they were!

On that front, I think SCV is actually pretty good with encouraging a wider variety of moves. In previous Soul games (and in other fighting games like Tekken), each character has, like, 100+ moves on average, which is really cool at first, but when you realise that only about 30 or so are of much use, it diminishes it somewhat. By contrast, if you have 80 moves, and at least 50 are of some use, that's probably more worthwhile on the whole...

Also I'm very interested to hear exactly which moves you think are broken.
 
A Ms. Cleo style top tier list of when JG catches on and everyone has done their homework.

Top Tier:

Alpha Patroklos
I'm hesitant to put him here to be honest. I watched more aPats at Final Round than any character and even the best ones miss just frames at crucial times. He also has difficulty with step happy opponents, but seeing as throws track pretty damn well in V and his throw game is phenomenal, he doesn't hurt too badly. Certain moves like 1B:B will lose favor after people figure out they are easily JGable and that might push him alittle down the tier list.

Natsu
Obviously a scrub killer, but she does just fine in high level play as Hawkeye proved. Her speed combined with damage she gets off of counter hits is incredibly high. Another perk to her is how good her oki game is and how many ways she can beat you after a knockdown. Currently I don't think JG will hurt her too bad for most of her game, but I am unfamiliar with timings on certain move she does.

Pyrrha
There aren't too many holes in her game. Some powerful verts that track, massive punishment game, and underrated step are high points without too many low points. Her BEs are all going to take a big hit when JG catches on aside from maybe 66B (BE). That will eternally be used to destroy the cautious ground roller. But as always with that family, having an i14 punisher with that kind-of range is always big. Slap on some awesome safety and some retarded tracking verts and you have a threat.

Maxi
Maxi's damage output and ability to handle most situations in stances gives him tools to deal with anyone. The complex nature of his stance options will bode well when JG gets really broken down. 6A+B (BE) is at least in the top ten BEs in the game and since it's a single i16 hit, JG doesn't get in the way for that either (safe JG is another story). If the game were to continue without patching I could see Maxi becoming a huge problem for everyone.

Cervantes
What a life it is to have access to an i17 punisher that TCs, TJs, is mid, and leads to 100 dmg. iGDR might not be the only thing he has going for him, but it's what puts him over the top. He has aPat syndrome in the way that not everyone can take advantage of the power he has 100% of the time. Hell, Cerv players all have horror stories of throwing away whole rounds due to a missed iGDR ring out. Nothing he has that is vital to his game has a lot of risk against JG either. If there is any weakness to his game it's meter overall. Albeit 4B (BE) is great for frame trapping.





As far as Sieg needing nerfs/buffs. I don't agree at all. He just needs the off-axis whiffing to be patched and then he's completely fine. Even currently he is not nearly as bad as Sieg players are making him out to be.
 
MntT77 said:
I really can't think of many moves in this game that can yet be considered 'broken'. Even stuff like Natsu's 2A+B into air grab is frustrating rather than outright 'broken'. And claiming that SCIV didn't have broken moves is ridiculous - they outright banned two of the main characters due to how imbalanced they were!

On that front, I think SCV is actually pretty good with encouraging a wider variety of moves. In previous Soul games (and in other fighting games like Tekken), each character has, like, 100+ moves on average, which is really cool at first, but when you realise that only about 30 or so are of much use, it diminishes it somewhat. By contrast, if you have 80 moves, and at least 50 are of some use, that's probably more worthwhile on the whole...

Also I'm very interested to hear exactly which moves you think are broken.
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aside hilde who did they ban @_@?

no need to tell details i think you know there are 180 50% throw mixups for example or 100+ damage fast whiff punishers starting from crouch.....

or i11 45dmg punishers.....etc.

scIV was FAR MORE balanced...with exceptions of course but overall had less OP things.
 
darkfender said:
aside hilde who did they ban @_@?

no need to tell details i think you know there are 180 50% throw mixups for example or 100+ damage fast whiff punishers starting from crouch.....

or i11 45dmg punishers.....etc.

scIV was FAR MORE balanced...with exceptions of course but overall had less OP things.
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It's a less than two months old. How can you compare it to SCIV that has been out for that long, received multiple patches, and had banned characters?
 
darkfender said:
aside hilde who did they ban @_@?

no need to tell details i think you know there are 180 50% throw mixups for example or 100+ damage fast whiff punishers starting from crouch.....

or i11 45dmg punishers.....etc.

scIV was FAR MORE balanced...with exceptions of course but overall had less OP things.
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The mistake you are making is not taking into account game ecosystem.

Does it matter that a character has 180 damage throw mixups when other characters have equivocable bullshit?

Example: Amy's m/l mixup game wouldn't be shit in SC5, because of it's low damage but in SC4 it was considered BS because everyone had pretty low damage and trashy options by comparison.

Point is this: there is no universal standard of broken- it's relative to the games ecosystem, and a games ecosystem is determined by how the characters match-up against each other. Because we do not know how all characters match up against each other in the hands of high level expert players, tier debate is quite literally textual masturbation.

I figured that should go without saying but... I guess it needed to be said.
 
IdleMind said:
Does it matter that a character has 180 damage throw mixups when other characters have equivocable bullshit?
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exactly what i was trying to say....
remove all bullshit....respect more risk/reward; avoid rewarding skilless gamble with half bar....
For that i did say EVERY character has his broken stuff.

I don t think that stuff is required for the "game ecosystem" at all

So NERF EVERYBODY.
And add hats....


P.S. i don t agree there is not universal "brokenness"...
When risk/reward is bad the game is bad even if every players have similar tools.

I mean try to give every character a 230 dmg B ...Would n't it make B broken for everyone?
same when you talk about stepG...everyone have access to it...yet is not good.

P.P.S. also Algol was a boss in scIV not a main character
 
darkfender said:
imho they should just lock team tekken in a room and then discuss the balance with the remaining team soul u.u
Then they can ignore players complaints.
But as long as tekken devs are in team soul well i expect the worse.....
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You do realize that Tekken is the most balanced fighting game right now (other than VF), yeah? Team Tekken knows what they're doing.
 
I just want to get this out of the way.

My view as a veteran Tekken tournament player is this: It is extremely well balanced (especially T6BR).

HOW it's balanced is the current subject of debate and dissention (and is the reason I play SC now, and not Tekken) among Tekken players (homogeny, i.e. too many universal options, etc), not whether it is balanced. People have this idea that if it wasnt Bob v Bob, or Law v Bob, the game would be less boring. Let me tell you, watching Jin vs Dragunov would be just as boring.

That said, the ecosystem of SC5 is very different from T6, but some superficial changes make it seem more similar- lateral movement emphasis and damage are similar, but the path to that damage is hardly as universal among characters.
 
darkfender said:
no i don t.....
Infact i play soulcalibur and not tekken u.u
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Then I don't see how you can assume that locking team tekken in a room is the solution here...
Even if you were being facetious.
Azazel said:
are u freaking serious?
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Extremely serious.
IdleMind said:
My view as a veteran Tekken tournament player is this: It is extremely well balanced (especially T6BR).

HOW it's balanced is the current subject of debate and dissention (and is the reason I play SC now, and not Tekken) among Tekken players (homogeny, i.e. too many universal options, etc), not whether it is balanced. People have this idea that if it wasnt Bob v Bob, or Law v Bob, the game would be less boring. Let me tell you, watching Jin vs Dragunov would be just as boring.
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That is the consensus, yes, and what I was going to explain if asked. Tekken 6: BR is almost at that point where VF5:FS is, wherein you'll only get hype for it if you really know what is going on. The only difference is that Tekken's characters have personalities, and therefore draw some casual crowds.
 
I left the Tekken tournament scene right after T4's ridiculous Jin display of unbalanced...ness. It's weird that they suddenly have one of the most balanced fighters on the market now.
 
I do agree that Tekken is balanced but its just not fun to play while VF5 FS is the complete opposite. Can't wait for this game.
 
Truth is that for me there is nothing more boring than a Tekken or a VF match, I literally fall sleep. I love SC cause every match (except matches in SCIV) is extremely fun to watch no matter the level of the players, same for KOF, SF, MK and BB, really entertaining
 
I do admit that if you don't understand VF you won't understand shit about whats going on. Its a very complicated and very fast game. Still vf system is what SC system should be like. How step works in VF is godlike. Throw escape too is godlike. Hell about everything in the VF system is top notch. Once you understand what goes on in VF its the most fun game to watch ever. Problem is that not a lot of people are motivated enough to learn to play this game which is a shame.
I like KOF out of the games you mentionned Azazel, but SF, MK and especially BB are boring as fuck to watch for my part.
 
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