SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion

lolo

[11] Champion
After playing with Signia and RO for several matches, I can say Yoshi is scary, I´m supposed to know everything about this char, but still the pressure is too much, I don´t feel this when playing vs any other char (**** Viola), and the difference in performance comparing me with Signia and RO, is minimal, I told them both, you are way more technical than I am, they will be there soon, I know that for sure, just a few tweaks in their games and they will be taking 1st places everywhere, cause they already shown their level, Signia in last year´s EVO and RO, I still remember how bad he made look LP's Viola in a tournament.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
I´m supposed to know everything about this char
I felt the same way, I learned some new things from you guys!

The Yoshimitsu mirror match feels really weird. You can't do your normal iMCF from disadvantage as much, since they can just beat it with their own iMCF. iMCFs from range are still good, though, since the other player would have to move forward to hit your iMCF.

Sweeps are a huge a presence in the matchup as both characters have fast movement speed that must be stopped. Both characters have maintain careful ranges to whiff punish, and moves like the hopkick are hard to whiff punish. This led to me kinda spamming 7Ks on whiff to avoid the whole iFC3K pseudo-whiff punish. The hop kick is generally really good since it'll go over iMCF and the sweep while staying safe against launchers and 4KB. Only certain air hits will grant 6K or a:B+K, but I ended up landing a few 6B or 2B into 6K combos.

I thought the deathcopter setups wouldn't be effective but I still got hit by lots of stuff.

Punishes on iFC3K aren't very severe but I kept telling myself to CE it on block but my fingers always did 4KB all but one time. I tried mid-screen FLE and DGF to avoid it in the neutral game with varying degrees of success.
 

BloodyTigerRoar

[10] Knight
Yeah 7K is handy in Yoshi mirrors. I use it to beat 2B+K.~ A,B, or K on reaction. It beats all of those options easily.

lol sometimes I gamble & Imcf when I see the moves start-up. Because if they select A, man that CH feels good! Haha
 

mkl

[00] Signia's Cheerleader
I haven't tested on P2 side or even with 33A+B but...

99A+B iMCF 66A BE bA works on all characters in the game if it's a whiff punish scenario where they don't realign. This is rather interesting since iMCF 66A BE only works on certain characters and even then it's janky. Giving yourself a slight side angle (99A+B) will cause it to become 100% consistent. 669A+B or other variants like that will go by the same principles as if they were being hit by iMCF 66A BE and who that does and does not work against.

It's 116 damage NH without clean hits so it's totally worth it, especially for a half bar. Replacing the 66A BE with CE nets nearly the same exact damage for more bar.
 
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TheMadBonger

[08] Mercenary
I recently was testing something i thought was very interesting for gimmick usage. manji blood star IND A+K A the flip tech traps in itself all but left and playing dead for 184 damage altogether. When it hits them it leaves them standing with a small stun.

but you MUST do the delayed flip at the very last second or it will miss. I tested on viola and lexia but it should work on most. But i repeat there is a fast flip and delayed flip to manji blood star it must be the delayed flip. Hopefully someone else finds that interesting besides me :).
 
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JustKill

[09] Warrior
I recently was testing something i thought was very interesting for gimmick usage. manji blood star IND A+K A the flip tech traps in itself all but left (or right but only one direction though for sure ) and playing dead for 204 damage altogether. When it hits them it leaves them standing with a small stun but you MUST do the delayed hop at the very last second or it will miss. I tested on viola and lexia but it should work on most. But i repeat there is a fast hop and delayed hop it must be the delayed hop. Hopefully someone else finds that interesting besides me :).
Hey Bonger, just wanted to mention that your message is a bit confusing, you say "IND" which is "meditation" stance or (MED) A+K A( IND/MED suicide unblockable into flip(A) unblockable), this much i can translate, but then you mention the word "hop" 3 times following that and i can only translate that as defining some sort of "hop" is in there(other than the starter and the finish flip totaling two different attacks) i know there is only two total attacks based on what you said, this is where i am confused, did you decide to just change your wording but meaning to say flip/hop being the same thing? want to make sure only because this could be misleading to others new to Yoshi and those reading the post in the thread and got me thinking as i write this that "wait, is there another attack that is a "hop" from this stance other than the "flip"?!. and if the the hop means something else(which i am to guess yes), you didn't explain that and just went into saying "hop" 3 different times without an explanation other than it has to be delayed, haha...

i digress, however, i am just trying to help you clarify and correctly translate what you mean so that others understand correctly as well...but this attack is probably not a good thing since, 1) no healing properties and 2) does a ton of self inflicted damage to Yoshi...risk reward is highly in the opponents favor unless Yoshi has full life and opponent has like, a smidgen of life left.

perhaps there is more to this but it still seems to be a waste of time to do(imo) and i am still not understanding what your saying since i don't know how to correctly translate what you wrote... is there a set up to do it?, are you just going into it out of the blue without out a set up?, i cant imagine that works at all like that unless of course there is a set up to it as i was mentioning/asking in which you still don't have a thorough explanation...just trying to help you out on this and so others understand too :)
 

TheMadBonger

[08] Mercenary
Hey Bonger, just wanted to mention that your message is a bit confusing, you say "IND" which is "meditation" stance or (MED) A+K A( IND/MED suicide unblockable into flip(A) unblockable), this much i can translate, but then you mention the word "hop" 3 times following that and i can only translate that as defining some sort of "hop" is in there(other than the starter and the finish flip totaling two different attacks) i know there is only two total attacks based on what you said, this is where i am confused, did you decide to just change your wording but meaning to say flip/hop being the same thing? want to make sure only because this could be misleading to others new to Yoshi and those reading the post in the thread and got me thinking as i write this that "wait, is there another attack that is a "hop" from this stance other than the "flip"?!. and if the the hop means something else(which i am to guess yes), you didn't explain that and just went into saying "hop" 3 different times without an explanation other than it has to be delayed, haha...

i digress, however, i am just trying to help you clarify and correctly translate what you mean so that others understand correctly as well...but this attack is probably not a good thing since, 1) no healing properties and 2) does a ton of self inflicted damage to Yoshi...risk reward is highly in the opponents favor unless Yoshi has full life and opponent has like, a smidgen of life left.

perhaps there is more to this but it still seems to be a waste of time to do(imo) and i am still not understanding what your saying since i don't know how to correctly translate what you wrote... is there a set up to do it?, are you just going into it out of the blue without out a set up?, i cant imagine that works at all like that unless of course there is a set up to it as i was mentioning/asking in which you still don't have a thorough explanation...just trying to help you out on this and so others understand too :)
Its really not that confusing i just said hop instead of flip later on. It is called IND stance in the movelist that is why I SAID indian yea it used to be called meditation whatever this is 5 now. Do i really need to give you a setup for manji blood star? Its a gimmick move at best perhaps a 44b+k cancel into the suicide then flip. The main point was to stress that if you hit with manji bloodstar you can tech trap all but left with a repeated manji blood star. The notation would be IND A+K A, (delayed) A for 168 dmg if the second hits. Hopefully that clears it up sorry i was kind of stoned writing that last post.

EDIT: also the damage from manji blood star applies after u have hit them and its only about 30 more damage to chance and get 84.

Setups
1K, G, IND
44B+K, IND
6K hit, 66A+B, IND
Bait with IND healing to make opponent dash at you
44A, 66A+B, IND
back tech, 44B+K, IND
 
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JustKill

[09] Warrior
ok, i was going to mention the 1k set up you listed if you meant from a set up and if what you meant about flip/hop having the same meaning along that, made me think there was another hidden attack in there somehow the way it was worded is all, LOL... so yea that clears it up for me =)

also, you can actually get a combo from 1k, 2B+K(IND), A+K no need to give up that free damage for gimmicks , nah' mean? and yea i use MED as abbreviation for IND instead since my friends and like everyone on the Yoshi boards say it that way too, just coz it looks like he is meditating is why that wording is used is all, no biggie.
 

rudeb0y

[10] Knight
Hi guys, just discovered something that might be semi-useful..

66A+B combos with 1B+K for the most damage I think.. 60. Great positional combo.

However, 33_99A+B combos into 2A+B B otg for further push back. Slightly less damage though. Also, if you did 669_3A+B (i.e. you are face on) then 2A+B B cannot be teched either. So it combos on the ground for about 59, or the slightest of delays for potential tech trap.. (70-75dmg) or it will hit rollers to any direction for 30dmg. I think this is better in some match-ups against opponents/chars that know/can left-tech out of the 3B tech-trap. I'm going to try making these moves the staple after 66_33_99 A+B series.. as they hit sleepers and tech-ers. They're also great alternatives if you can't hit the iMCF after 33_99A+B or against chars that combo isn't consistent on.

If you want to chance it, an immediate 66A can catch tech here as well and in some situations will combo with DNK 2K/(maybe 3B too). it depends on how you catch the opponent and the way they land. DNK will catch techers after 66A hits anyway.. but if they land side-on then it will also pick up off the ground. Might be worth getting to know this move a bit more being potentially a safe 70dmg combo starter.

66A+B after 66A+B also catches side rollers.

Something I want to try next, 669 A+B 3B+K. I'm hoping that is a safe tech-trap as well.. probably not though. The slight better frames off 33_99 A+B probably going to get some mileage on counter-hit set-ups (whiffed 6A imcf on people getting up, etc.).

Edit: this was all tested against Natsu.. who can evade 3B tech-trap :S
Edit Edit: 66A+B 2A+BB .. on block is char specific. Just tried on Asta and the 2nd hit of 2A+BB will whiff so be careful
 
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Signia

[13] Hero
After 33A+B? When is it not guaranteed?
Side hit where the crumple animation is askew. If they fall on their knees and faceplant into the background or foreground, iMCF will whiff.

Haven't done a stupid long post here in a while, but here goes.

Yoshimitsu whiff punish choices are pretty complicated. The best choice depends on how close you are how aligned you are and how much time you have to input a move. I never really mastered whiff punishing, partly because I got in the habit of always doing 3B for sidestep or 4KB or 33A+B for backstep (4, 4123B) for everything because a frame data error made me think that whiff punishing 22B or 22K was too slow, thinking that 33A+B was actually faster and that those moves were useless for other reasons, too. Why do 22B, a slow move that might whiff at close range, is done out of 22, and leave you crazy punishable when you have 3B or little-dash 3B that does almost as much damage? Why do 22K when it also can whiff, is a high, and the best combo you get is just as good as just doing CE anyway? I was wrong, they all have their uses.

22B - this move is a great choice when you're not up close and you're aligned. It doesn't randomly whiff, so if know when it works, it works really well. It's much faster than 22K and 33A+B at i23 and has more range and damage than 3B. For its speed and range it definitely has a place for whiff punishing moves that recover at a medium speed from a sidestep or backstep at mid range. At tip range it also combos to 4A JFs if that's what you want.

22K - It turns out that doing a 22K into a CE is easier than frantically trying to do a CE on reaction. For this move you want to be up close. Without meter, if you sidestep at close range and end up at their back, this move is the highest damaging option, even meterless, since it'll grant you a 3B on backturned opponent, comboing to a:B+K 2(A+B)6(6) for huge damage. If you know you're going to sidestep something big, this is the best choice especially because it won't have the 33A+B alignment issues.

CE - god this move does so much damage, and I couldn't make use of it. When ducking, you can buffer (G)2323 in readiness to CE throws, since the shortcut for CE is 2323A+B+K.

33A+B - you use this move at long range sidesteps and backstep of big moves or whiff predictions. If you are too close on the sidestep it won't get you the iMCF combo, since stepping moves more radians relative to your opponent the closer you are.

So from closest to furthest, for the time frame you want to do:
Short: 3B, 2B, 4KB
Medium: 3B, 22B
Plenty of time / on prediction: 22K, 33A+B

So uh... yeah that's when you want to 33A+B and what to do instead on the side... bye now
 

rudeb0y

[10] Knight
Signia - large posts appreciated - I'm just worried about giving too much knowledge away to my competitors! I had an idea but I was't sure whether to throw it out there...

Counter hit confirms on 4:A series - it's bloody darn good!

It's hard to do though (for me at this moment) although with practice this is stupidly good for Yoshi and for me at least elevates the game dramatically.

There's just so much going on:
+ confirm jf and counter, within 3 hits (stay safe and natural combo)
+ confirm counter = 60 dmg anyway, both knocked down, free tech for meter, and safe (assuming you can consistenlty jf)
+ confirm and iMCF.. killer damage.. think it is about 136 ( from memory) requires skill/practice - edit: fucking ringout.. omg,,
+ super amazing push-back/ring/wall pressure (Yoshi's main strength.. by far)
+ in my exp, good guard damage - (somehow, I think there is better strats fo Yoshi break game I just don't know then!)
+ Fast.

Minus:
- It's a skill thing. To confirm hit, jf, and counter - within 3 buttons (that you are trying to time)... and do a decision on the outcome.. is pretty L337..
- Short as shit range.
- High.
- Quasi-safe (should that be a plus? :P)

I'll test the stuff in your post on the whiffs, particularly interested in 22B if it's equalling more damage. I know what you mean though, there's some ridiculously good punishes possible with 22K - to be honest though a lot of them rely on strings/steps and you really aren't going to land them at high-level unless you got the read and/or your opponent is being lazy ( + char specific). Meta meta meta.. :P
 
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