speedking1254
[09] Warrior
Sure dude wait those are old nevermind
SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion
- Thread starter HajimeOwari
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Signia
[13] Hero
make your own thread guys, most SAs have video threads. Especially if you want critiques
Seran Zealot
[10] Knight
Do you know if CH iMCF ~ 3B ~ 4A:A...~ a:B+K is character specific? Yoshi's Parting Thrust whiffs on Ivy.
Edit: Nevermind, I was thinking of a normal 3b combo. My mistake.
Edit: Nevermind, I was thinking of a normal 3b combo. My mistake.
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rudeb0y
[10] Knight
What are people's opinions on regular A+B? Are there any set-ups for it?
I've only found the odd use for it and it involves making a great read - dodge a throw, for example
I've only found the odd use for it and it involves making a great read - dodge a throw, for example
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
Too reactable on its own and if there is a setup for it, I'd imagine you're better off doing something with better reward and isn't as risky. 33A+B for example on a whiff or even a setup has more reward for far less risk. It's probably a good move to examine further but I really doubt there is much there for meat.
AvDaniel
[09] Warrior
33A+B? Is that a sidestep version of his 66A+B (the mitsurugi move) or something else?
E: Nvm it is
E: Nvm it is
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
Yep, but it grants an imcf combo after on hit.
Signia
[13] Hero
2(A+B) FLE 6(6) will combo on no-tech after 33A+B but not after 66A+B. They can tech it, but if they like to tech after that move they risk getting hit by all the tech traps out of that. If you're not confident about the really difficult iMCF combo, go for that mixup.
That reminds me, I found another really good post launch-a:B+K option: dash-in 2(A+B). If they lay still or try to roll, you can combo into FLE 6(6) for a total of 79 damage for 3B a:B+K 6 2(A+B) FLE 6(6). 2(A+B) will also hit forward techs if timed right. For side-techs, 2(A+B) will whiff but you're still in a great position: FLE B will counterhit and launch their attempted punishes that aren't fast As, charged FLE B will beat highs, and A+B will hop over things. This option also has the benefit of disguising your step-in deathcopter, since you step-in for this, too.
Starting to use FLE a little more in general, now. It's pretty gimmicky but you can do some crazy stuff with the right reads. Best thing about it is how safe it is, unless your opponent has strong anti-air. Tip-range 2(A+B) puts you at exactly the right spacing for 6A+B B+K B launch, though I haven't landed that in a match yet. They always block or get hit in the wrong place. If they block 6A+B, you're at massive advantage, and FLE B beats everything but guard. A+B right on top of them here and the situation resets, while they can't hit you with basic attacks. 6A+B will beat backstep and if you go over them you can hop back again no problem. Any time either A+B or (A+B) hits, the combo is usually another A+B into FLE 6(6) for good damage.
The reverse mixups other than A+B are good, too. FLE (B) TCs, tracks well, hits mid, launches on NH, is 0 on block, and guard crushes in 10. FLE in general wrecks the guard, with hops doing 1/8 and super hops doing 1/6. The 22 or 88 steps aren't too great, but step to correct side to get away from those big mids that shut down FLE and you can launch with FLE K DGF A+B for 80 damage. I don't recommend (A+B) for any kind of reliability. 2A+B super-TCs under things and recovers fast enough to do things like go under Aeon's 66A and punish with FLE K.
Safe exiting is important, though. Missing a pogo, you actually aren't in a bad position at all. As soon as you land you can act; you can whiff on purpose as a bait, even. FLE B will launch on CH, FLE (K) and FLE 6(6) will hit people low from far away, while usually doing more damage than they can punish you for, or you can go for a hail mary FLE K, which they usually can't hurt you that bad for anyway. If you end up backturned, which will happen often, you can do FLE (K) to get on the ground, FLE 6(6) to run far away, keep hopping away to bait them, FLE B just to do a short whiff and guard... there are so many options, just read your opponent, he'll be predictable trying to deal with this.
FLE #1 Yoshimitsu stance
That reminds me, I found another really good post launch-a:B+K option: dash-in 2(A+B). If they lay still or try to roll, you can combo into FLE 6(6) for a total of 79 damage for 3B a:B+K 6 2(A+B) FLE 6(6). 2(A+B) will also hit forward techs if timed right. For side-techs, 2(A+B) will whiff but you're still in a great position: FLE B will counterhit and launch their attempted punishes that aren't fast As, charged FLE B will beat highs, and A+B will hop over things. This option also has the benefit of disguising your step-in deathcopter, since you step-in for this, too.
Starting to use FLE a little more in general, now. It's pretty gimmicky but you can do some crazy stuff with the right reads. Best thing about it is how safe it is, unless your opponent has strong anti-air. Tip-range 2(A+B) puts you at exactly the right spacing for 6A+B B+K B launch, though I haven't landed that in a match yet. They always block or get hit in the wrong place. If they block 6A+B, you're at massive advantage, and FLE B beats everything but guard. A+B right on top of them here and the situation resets, while they can't hit you with basic attacks. 6A+B will beat backstep and if you go over them you can hop back again no problem. Any time either A+B or (A+B) hits, the combo is usually another A+B into FLE 6(6) for good damage.
The reverse mixups other than A+B are good, too. FLE (B) TCs, tracks well, hits mid, launches on NH, is 0 on block, and guard crushes in 10. FLE in general wrecks the guard, with hops doing 1/8 and super hops doing 1/6. The 22 or 88 steps aren't too great, but step to correct side to get away from those big mids that shut down FLE and you can launch with FLE K DGF A+B for 80 damage. I don't recommend (A+B) for any kind of reliability. 2A+B super-TCs under things and recovers fast enough to do things like go under Aeon's 66A and punish with FLE K.
Safe exiting is important, though. Missing a pogo, you actually aren't in a bad position at all. As soon as you land you can act; you can whiff on purpose as a bait, even. FLE B will launch on CH, FLE (K) and FLE 6(6) will hit people low from far away, while usually doing more damage than they can punish you for, or you can go for a hail mary FLE K, which they usually can't hurt you that bad for anyway. If you end up backturned, which will happen often, you can do FLE (K) to get on the ground, FLE 6(6) to run far away, keep hopping away to bait them, FLE B just to do a short whiff and guard... there are so many options, just read your opponent, he'll be predictable trying to deal with this.
FLE #1 Yoshimitsu stance
AvDaniel
[09] Warrior
Haha yes FLE is definitely a fun stance to say the least, although I personally have trouble implementing it into my game other than (B) and teabagging with 2A+B.
Regardless of whether your "FLE #1" thing was serious or not, it's kind of interesting.. Which Yoshi stance do you guys think is the strongest? DGF is definitely my fave because of the mid/low, I swear hardly anybody reacts to the B even though it's around i30~ if I'm not mistaken.. Oh and SDF also offers some (very) situational oki.
IND/MED/WOW SUCH SIT is only good for 44B+K 2B+K 6A+B K (although in my head the notation is 44B+K then mash A+B+K while waving the stick around...) because it's by far the best low in the game, Yoshi even asks for forgiveness as he spams the mindlessly OP move.
And I had no idea that 33A+B gave you an iMCF combo, that's p huge. Does 66A+B even give anything on NH? I wanna say you can 3B but I haven't played in quite some time..
Regardless of whether your "FLE #1" thing was serious or not, it's kind of interesting.. Which Yoshi stance do you guys think is the strongest? DGF is definitely my fave because of the mid/low, I swear hardly anybody reacts to the B even though it's around i30~ if I'm not mistaken.. Oh and SDF also offers some (very) situational oki.
IND/MED/WOW SUCH SIT is only good for 44B+K 2B+K 6A+B K (although in my head the notation is 44B+K then mash A+B+K while waving the stick around...) because it's by far the best low in the game, Yoshi even asks for forgiveness as he spams the mindlessly OP move.
And I had no idea that 33A+B gave you an iMCF combo, that's p huge. Does 66A+B even give anything on NH? I wanna say you can 3B but I haven't played in quite some time..
TsunamiBye
[14] Master
Flea is my favorite than DGF. I like using that gimmick sometimes.
Signia
[13] Hero
Yeah I was serious, but they're all kinda gimmicky and rely on knowing exactly how your opponent will react to weird situations. The "default" responses and "knee jerk" responses are important things to read in your opponent, since those are the hardest things to adapt.
DGF mixups are reactable and the best thing about it is how fast you cancel out of it. The metagame response is to duck when you see DGF, then react to the mid, and every top player can do this. So if you DGF and cancel out of it, you can pretty much guarantee that they won't try to hit you, so you can take a strong mixup with the special stance-cancel throws along with your FC mixup (DGF stance cancel puts you into an invisible crouch) or you can always RCC and do whatever.
Either do the stance cancel, or use their hesitation to run a SDF mixup. From SDF your main options are fast SDF B, delayed/8A+B sidestep-flying SDF, or SDF A. Their step G will beat SDF B and SDF A, but 8A+B SDF B will track normal sidewalking so they have to keep guessing with steps or quicksteps at right timing to dodge it. SDF A beats continued stepping. Fast SDF B will beat weird options like run underneath or backstep unless they predicted your SDF transition. I haven't messed with the other options but they're less committal and less rewarding. The suicide is pretty easy to avoid and is super risky trying to read where they'll move.
Everyone knows how to beat the IND/MED or whatever you want to call it stance mixups. I've found that it's harder for them if you pressure them to something other than wait and react to the teleport. This can be accomplished by healing, then teleporting or penguin sliding when they get close. The aGI sucks, though. You can cancel out of the heal if you don't mash or whatever people do. You can just hold down, then when you want to stop, stop holding down, wait for the last heal animation to end, and carefully time your escape.
It's amazing what you can do with the element of surprise. Just remember to be deliberate about what reaction you're expecting.
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
FLE > SDF >>>>>>>>>>>> DGF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MED
But yeah, if your opponent can't handle the DGF "mixup" knock it up above FLE.
66A+B grants a 3B, but I've seen it teched before when it should have been guaranteed so I'm hesitant to say it's really guaranteed.
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AvDaniel
[09] Warrior
Signia, do you really get put in crouch just from cancelling DGF? (just by holding G, I'm assuming?) That does sound like a free FC3K/4KB mixup with that psychological frame advantage you're getting.. Or I guess FC3K/RCC 3B for even more damage.
& mkl that sounds really weird, as far as I know 3B will catch most techs but I guess the angle/character can mess it up a bit. Can you recall which character you were playing against when it happened?
On a sidenote, Yoshimitsu's stance cancel A+G (He also does it while grabbing out of BT iirc) is the badassest throw in the game. Might see a patch for that soon.
& mkl that sounds really weird, as far as I know 3B will catch most techs but I guess the angle/character can mess it up a bit. Can you recall which character you were playing against when it happened?
On a sidenote, Yoshimitsu's stance cancel A+G (He also does it while grabbing out of BT iirc) is the badassest throw in the game. Might see a patch for that soon.
Signia
[13] Hero
Yeah, you press G out of DGF and mash 3K and you get a FC 3K. It's a pretty good model of what a perfect iFC 3K should look like. Thing is, most already fear the stance grabs, so the FC 3K is redundant also very risky to use at predictable timings. If you watch BoomSouljah's matches at TFC you'll see how he runs super risky DGF mixups on untechable knockdowns like after FC 3K or DNK in combos. He uses DGF K to hit rolls and runs stance cancel mixups for if they get up. Somehow, it pays off.
Untechable knockdowns are pretty good to take advantage of, actually. You give up damage, but after DNK in combos, you sacrifice 5% damage of your combo at most, and the mixup you get is worth taking. Force blocks include 66A+B which is a reactable, but for the really stubborn rollers, FC 2K is a 16 damage ground hitting low (standing 2K is only 12), 2(A+B) combos into FLE 6(6) on hit and starts FLE mixups on block, 2A+BB for a safe guard damage mid that pushes back, or you can take the standard oki, throw as they get up, etc.
Untechable knockdowns are pretty good to take advantage of, actually. You give up damage, but after DNK in combos, you sacrifice 5% damage of your combo at most, and the mixup you get is worth taking. Force blocks include 66A+B which is a reactable, but for the really stubborn rollers, FC 2K is a 16 damage ground hitting low (standing 2K is only 12), 2(A+B) combos into FLE 6(6) on hit and starts FLE mixups on block, 2A+BB for a safe guard damage mid that pushes back, or you can take the standard oki, throw as they get up, etc.
rudeb0y
[10] Knight
I like cancelling DGF into a safe WR A or B. B = good guard damage and WR A is good to generate enough space on most chars for a slight step back and a bA counter if they try some things on block, or great frame adv on hit. Also, 66B seems to work well after these two moves on block as well - i.e. it can beat most BBs for example.
Also, I think the A will catch steps to one side, and B the other.
you can also use DGF G K to set-up CE ukemi traps on counter (left front back) or frame traps/A+K on block
Also, I think the A will catch steps to one side, and B the other.
you can also use DGF G K to set-up CE ukemi traps on counter (left front back) or frame traps/A+K on block
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Alright so I'm new to this site, but I really enjoy SCV and I want to master Yoshimitsu. I am fairly well versed in MOST of his combos, but I have no idea what the hell his Flea stance is good for, his spinning sidestep that hurts him, and if his A + K variants of self stabbing are anything more than amusing suicide. Do they have ANY viable uses?
At this point in the game I have beaten Legendary Souls with him, and can do just about all his moves in combat, with my favorites being
6K.K
SuperDF--B
3B
B.B
B+G
B+G 3/4A 3 (the grab variants that steal health)
I have problems doing the 8WR 3/9 Deathcopter combo too. Tips and suggestion greatly appreciated.
At this point in the game I have beaten Legendary Souls with him, and can do just about all his moves in combat, with my favorites being
6K.K
SuperDF--B
3B
B.B
B+G
B+G 3/4A 3 (the grab variants that steal health)
I have problems doing the 8WR 3/9 Deathcopter combo too. Tips and suggestion greatly appreciated.
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
FLE is his least gimmicky and most utilitarian stance. TJ lows for 80 damage. Guard pressure. End of round low mid mixup. You name it, it probably has it.
4B+K can be used in places where a normal side step is either difficult to perform under pressure or give you strange back throw setups. Try it on LX 66BB.
66A+K is nice if your opponent has a sizeable life lead but suicide will still kill them. Might as well double K.O. if it is in your advantage. It is pretty slow though so if you get fucked up for it, don't be surprised. A sort of reliable hail mary.
6K works great as a block punisher but the second kick is just a gimmick that will get you killed.
Signia
[13] Hero
I just had a shocking revelation: iMCF is -4, not -3 on block. I'm having my doubts that the move is i9 from crouch, as well. Looks like it's always i10... I can't for the life of me trade with 2A in between two iMCFs. Everything I thought I knew was a lie. fucking guidebook...
The sidestep that hurts you allows you to sidestep in certain situations where normally it'd be impossible. A good example is against Asta, where if he 66Ks or 4Ks you, you can't step another 66K or 4K and are subject to his mid/throw mixup. But if you 4B+K, you will step the mids and even the throw(!) and you can get big punishes. Works against Xiba 6AK and 6BK too, you can 4B+K the kick on reaction and get a free 3B BT launch.
If your opponent has less than 110 health, and you have more than 110 health (a little less than half health), you can win the round with 66(A+K) if you know they'll hold still. If the score is 2-1 or 2-0, you don't have to worry about double KO, you'll win the match since both are awarded a round and it takes 3 rounds to win.
I basically just wrote a Flea guide up a few posts up. Take a look. I didn't talk about the obvious stuff, though. FLE 66 (hold) is a fast low, but is -15 on hit so it's a great round ender. FLE K is an unsafe launcher but is good if you get them to whiff something, as it combos into DGF A+B for 80 damage. In FLE you are in the air by default, so you can't get combo'd very hard unless your opponent does a proper anti-air. They can hit you with highs and mids, but you can still FLE B or (B) under highs, 22 or 88 to step linears, or A+B short hop over mids.
The sidestep that hurts you allows you to sidestep in certain situations where normally it'd be impossible. A good example is against Asta, where if he 66Ks or 4Ks you, you can't step another 66K or 4K and are subject to his mid/throw mixup. But if you 4B+K, you will step the mids and even the throw(!) and you can get big punishes. Works against Xiba 6AK and 6BK too, you can 4B+K the kick on reaction and get a free 3B BT launch.
If your opponent has less than 110 health, and you have more than 110 health (a little less than half health), you can win the round with 66(A+K) if you know they'll hold still. If the score is 2-1 or 2-0, you don't have to worry about double KO, you'll win the match since both are awarded a round and it takes 3 rounds to win.
Signia
[13] Hero
So I guess this isn't devastating to anyone else. 2K iMCF is a 1-frame link to beat out a fast 2A!
Anyway, results are in for 100 JF 4As (didn't take that long): 66 fails, 34 recoveries. I think it's safe to say that there is a 1/3 chance of recovery if you hit all the JFs.
For 3B launches, the usual guaranteed combos are:
3B, 4AAAA - 50 damage
3B, JF 4As - 60 damage
3B 6K - 60 damage
3B a:B+K - 61 or 66 damage, for Clean Hit a:B+K
3B, JF 4As, 6K - 86 damage
3B, JF 4As, a:B+K 3B - 88 or 95 damage, for Clean Hit a:B+K (may require special timing or a step forward to get a:B+K to hit)
3B, JF 4As, 4AAAAA 94 damage
3B, JF 4As, JF 4As, 6K 121 damage
3B, JF 4As, JF 4As, a:B+K 3B 122 damage
3B, JF 4As, JF4As, JF 4As 129 damage
So if you hit the first JF 4A series, do another one. Doing 4As after launches gives you the best damage on average if you can hit it 100% of the time. If you screw up, try to stop halfway, the oki isn't bad (an immediate throw afterward will connect perfectly if they stand right away).
2/3 of the time you'll just get 60 damage
1/3 - 1/9 of the time you'll get 94 damage
1/9 of the time you'll get 122 damage (don't push your luck with three, it won't relaunch and you are punishable on random failure)
Expected value is 74.44 damage. But it can be even better if two JF 4A series will give you a ringout, which requires only one recovery. 1/3 chance to win the round, think about that... now if just one successful JF 4A series will ringout, definitely go for it.
If you can 3B a:B+K DNK 2K, do that, though. That's 73/75/77/79 damage depending on whether a:B+K or DNK clean hits. You have to have a close launch for that to work, being to their side sometimes puts you closer, and it's character specific (never try it on Voldo or Aeon).[/quote]