SCV Yoshimitsu Q&A and General Discussion

So I haven't really played at all in at least a year, if not two (I played at SC5 release for a while). Has any of Yoshi's stuff been altered by patches in the meantime?
 
Corbeau said:
So I haven't really played at all in at least a year, if not two (I played at SC5 release for a while). Has any of Yoshi's stuff been altered by patches in the meantime?
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Nothing important.
I think MED A changed to -2 on hit and CE gave less meter when it hit the opponent.
 
Found a new combo: CH 1B+K 66B 66A+B (82 damage). The distance you have to be in order for it work when you're not near a wall (in which case you'd wallsplat them with some other followup) varies but it never hits Natsu, Leixia, Siegfried, Xiba, Aeon, Mitsu, and Maxi. You have to be really close to hit Raph, Pat, Tira, and NM. It's really easy to hit Zwei, Ezio, Viola, Ivy, Algol, and Asta with it. The rest fall in the middle.

When would you land this? When you want to hit grounded with a safe move that does a lot of damage on CH. It qualified before with just the 66A+B followup but now it's actually really threatening.

Alternatively, you can CE for 110ish. I think that works on everybody.
 
http://translate.googleusercontent....ex.htm&usg=ALkJrhjVMSkCmlORPOcp4TnCRFo7GBPOnQ

I saw this a long time ago and never looked to cross reference the frames from the book and it. It looks like a lot of our changes match up perfectly with theirs, to the point I started to update the wiki with them. There were some interesting differences though (2A +7 on hit, a:B+K i12, 4K -14 on block, etc) so I want to make sure these are right before I go through and fuck the wiki up. 4K being -14 would be an eye opener for me.

EDIT: 4K is stab punishable, a:B+K is i12 and 2A is +7 lol. I'm going to say that their frame data is wayyyyy more accurate than ours. Only sad thing is a lot of the stance stuff is incomplete. It does give some important JG numbers for certain things and a more accurate DGF K block reading. Alllll added.
 
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"It has frame verified using a video capture."

Well no wonder it's so accurate then. I'll start checking for inconsistencies with other wikis.
 
Slade said:
"It has frame verified using a video capture."

Well no wonder it's so accurate then. I'll start checking for inconsistencies with other wikis.
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You never know if either are accurate though. For example, Omega's 4(A) is listed as neutral on both, but it is actually +1 from a quick test on whether or not Yoshi's AA would trade with hers (she won AA, traded 2A). But I might have fucked something up.
 
So maybe some of those OBOEs were their mistake. I'll have to verify the changes I made to the Aeon and Algol wikis.

It's a shame that there's a language barrier, it would be nice to have these guys to collaborate with for frame testing. There were some things of Algol's that were completely untestable conventionally (or a pain in the ass) but they were able to find through recording, e.g. subsequent string hit impact frames, string durations, delay windows, etc.

Also one thing I noticed from their frame data is that moves that force backturn on hit were universally +8 in my wikis but +7 in their data. I believe the reason for this is that I tested with backturned moves, while they might have tested with front turned moves. Seems to indicate that there is exactly a 1F delay for turning around.
 
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Slade said:
So maybe some of those OBOEs were their mistake. I'll have to verify the changes I made to the Aeon and Algol wikis.

It's a shame that there's a language barrier, it would be nice to have these guys to collaborate with for frame testing. There were some things of Algol's that were completely untestable conventionally (or a pain in the ass) but they were able to find through recording, e.g. subsequent string hit impact frames, string durations, delay windows, etc.

Also one thing I noticed from their frame data is that moves that force backturn on hit were universally +8 in my wikis but +7 in their data. I believe the reason for this is that I tested with backturned moves, while they might have tested with front turned moves. Seems to indicate that there is exactly a 1F delay for turning around.
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there is a 1 frame delay for turning around, which is why Omega's 4A appears to be +1 even though it is neutral on block.
 
xyerith said:
there is a 1 frame delay for turning around, which is why Omega's 4A appears to be +1 even though it is neutral on block.
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It doesn't turn the opponent back turned. If anything it is a side turn, and even that should be noted in the wiki. Thinking you're neutral after something gives you a certain impression that isn't true.
 
Cool thing I found to break the Pat matchup, and possibly the game's mechanics:

Yoshi can use bG and aG to basically stepG. Tested with Pat 1K into various things.

Pat 1K -> 66B and Pat 1K -> 44A are both beaten by backstep aG and sidestep right aG. Normally, you would get hit by these moves for backstepping against 66B and sidestepping against 44A. But now you can step right aG to make 66B whiff and still block 44A and backstep aG to make 44A whiff and still block 66B. Backstep aG also beats 1K and 2A, though the 2A is not punishable on whiff.

These option selects are easier and safer than the old one, which was backstep sidestep right, which could be beaten with a 66A. No immediate attack beats backstep aG. Pat will have to run up to you and mix you up.

It's not quite as good as being able to block immediately after stepping/backstepping, but it does protect you for a few more frames. At -6 you can barely create any distance at all and still block something like Pat 66B. There, you can do bG to do a safe little backstep. An example of using bG is Pat 1K 2A. It makes 2A whiff no matter how close Pat was after 1K.

It's a bit like stepG in SCII in the sense that it looks like you're not blocking, but Yoshi will magically stop his aG animation and block the attack. You are still stuck doing a lengthy animation if an attack doesn't come, which is why 1K 2A cant be punished after doing backstep aG. However, it can be punished with stand-still bG. I suspect you're still locked for 20 frames, but the difference is now you can block earlier if you cancel the backstep earlier with aG.

Only Yoshimitsu and Hilde (bG) have this glitch.
 
Signia placed top 16 at NEC. Lost to Partisan in winners and kAb in losers. The matches will be uploaded later from what I understand.
 
Signia said:
Yoshi can use bG and aG to basically stepG. Tested with Pat 1K into various things.
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Found a place - against Xiba - kB into 6A. Backstep aG/bG cancel wins. You cannot cancel the step though, let to go full. I guess the step is enough to dodge the firs hit of 6A with the cancel blocking the 2nd. You cannot step aG though, not quick enough to block the first hit presumably. Similarly, backstep kG would put you back in range for the first hit, so doesn't seem to work either.

I also noted (not in the above situation though) - if you are quick enough, you can make a kG cancel option select JG. I've not been able to do this with aG or bG, presumably because of an input window for a throw or something. I was testing this on Xiba 6B,K - with a kG in between, JGing the kick.

I can see it now - shimmying across the arena kGkGkGkGkJG CE round over :)
 
Yep, you were right mkl. I should have picked up Omega to cover my problem matchups. I thought it was possible because nothing really keeps out dash-iMCF, including Aeon 66A 2A, but it's too hard to pull off in a match. Yoshi vs Natsu is annoying, too. Was able to beat Sandman's Sieg and Viola, but those are hard, too. I can't think of any matchup that gives both yoshi and omega trouble, so she's a good pick.
 
I was messing about in training - against various chars, doing 2A back-step to see if there was anything Yoshi can do to counter.

Did some research on Natsu to begin..

Natsu: - 2A closest default

- 44B:B
- 6K
- 3B (+ combo of choice)
- 6A, but not 6(A). They seem to have different ranges!
- 3K
- K
- 2B
- B
- A


Natsu: - 2A closest closest (slight overlap)
- 3B+K ( +6K combo.. 76 dmg)
- 44A
- 4A - 1 hit only, 2nd hit whiffs..
- 3K
- a:B+K
- bA (strict timing/inconsistent full counter-hit)
- 66B

4B whiffs completely, at any range, yet will hit other chars. Given the range of some of the moves that do hit, this is surprising.

So many more options with extreme closeness...
 
Let's breathe some life into this joint. I've started playing again!

What do you guys think are Yoshi's three biggest problem matchups? What do you think are his three best matchups? Funnest three?

Problems:
1. Pyrrha
2. Aeon
3. Sieg/Natsu

Best:
1. Raphael
2. Maxi
3. Leixia

Funnest:
1. aPat
2. Nightmare
3. Patroklos
I think these are reasonably even and are really fun overall to see how both characters playstyles clash.
 
I suppose the opinions will depend on who/which chars you play against most often.

My problem 3 would be Omega, Mitsu, Nightmare. Although I play against some good Xiba/Cervy/Pat/Tira/Leixia players as well all who can provide issues..

Best: Definitely Maxi. Again probably down to my regular and how he plays him. After that, I'm really not sure.. maybe Zwei/Raph

Funnest: Maxi, Cervy, Algol

Boring: Patroklos, Ivy
 
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