Setsuka - Q&A Thread

Okay I need help badly here.

connecting with 2143aB after A+K, B is giving me a lot of trouble.

I can get it sometimes but I usually either do the direction input for dawn haze too early and end up doing 3B, or for some weird reason it comes out as 2143B (I can't figure this one out, at first I thought it was just a mistake but I'll do 2143AaB yet Setsuka will do 2143B and it is confusing the hell out of me. ) I can get her umbrella on almost any other launcher, but this one, the one I need to be able to do it on the most, it always comes out wrong.
 
Whats the timing when you can start buffering 214 after the A+K, B? i either do it too late also or i get WS A or B like hobo there.

also how do you connect 33B CH, 214B everytime i try they drop too fast. or am i seeing the wrong combo in videos?
 
Hi all,

I think I'm pretty comfortable with 2143 aB / Umbrella (normal version) now, since I can throw it out whenever I want to during the fight, as a standalone move.

Should I go on to master the JF version, or should I straight away go on to learn how to incorporate normal Umbrella into combos (e.g: 214B+G ---> Umbrella, or A+KB ---> Umbrella)?
Which one comes first?

Also, since I can't do JF Umbrella (standalone version) no matter how fast I slide aB, should I practice sliding Mitsu's bA [Just] first? I also heard that to practice JF Umbrella, we should learn Yoshi's iMCF first. What is iMCF and how do you do it?

Seriously, JF Umbrella is way harder to do than 1A series.
Out of 10 times I do 1A series, at least now I can get it 4 -5 out of 10 times.
With JF Umbrella, I can do it for 200 times and it only comes out 1 time at most, by luck.

And I don't wanna grease the controller or eat potato chips or rely on any other external "device", like cotton wool or something. It's very troublesome. :-)
 
I would start learning the timing for the Umbrella during combos before moving on to learn the JF. JFU makes the combos easier to perform, but not necessary on most of them.

Yoshi's iMCF is 2a:B, a one-frame shift from A to B and A can't be held down when B is pressed. I believe JFU has the same requirements, but the slide is less strict when you are in combo.
 
I agree with eltoshan, integrate the normal umbrella into your combos first. JFs are nice, and impressive when you pull them off, but in an actual match they aren't going to be the difference between a win and a loss (perhaps with some exceptions, like maybe :1::B:::B:). You'll get more out of being able to reliably pull off a combo than from being able to do a standing JF Umbrella.
 
eltoshan said:
I would start learning the timing for the Umbrella during combos before moving on to learn the JF. JFU makes the combos easier to perform, but not necessary on most of them.
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Ahrezmendi said:
I agree with eltoshan, integrate the normal umbrella into your combos first. JFs are nice, and impressive when you pull them off, but in an actual match they aren't going to be the difference between a win and a loss (perhaps with some exceptions, like maybe :1::B:::B:). You'll get more out of being able to reliably pull off a combo than from being able to do a standing JF Umbrella.
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Thanks a lot, Elto and Ahrezmendi! :-)

Ok, I've one more question: among all the common combos below which can be finished using Umb, which one is the easiest to master for a newbie:

1) 214B+G, Umb
2) FC3BB, Umb
3) A+K B, Umb
4) 33B, Umb [I can do this one 8 / 10 times currently)
5) 3B, Umb [this is hard as hell]

Btw, for 1) and 3), my Umb always comes out after the guy has already landed on the ground. Damn.
 
1) 214B+G, Umb - you have 2 frames window for umbrella. So you can make 13 frame umbrella and it will still connect (also iFCA will) (On Astaroth sometimes you have to make 12i umbrella).

2) FC3BB, Umb - 1 frame only. Must be 12i umbrella. From max ranged fc3B:B, 12i umbrella will miss.

3) A+K B, Umb - usually 2 frames, but in some situation you will have 1 frame only (or maybe it just not reach) or 3 frames (depands from range where opp is after A+KB)

4) 33B, Umb - usually 4 frames, but 5 frames when ch 33B hit from tip range, so almost any umbrella will connect:P.

5) 3B, Umb - 2 frames from close and 3 frames from max range.
 
If you can read frames, then Cheeses info is what you want. I cannot read frames, so here's how I handle each of those:
Nikar said:
1) 214B+G, Umb
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Start the Umbrella input during the final slash of the throw, where she comes across their chest (this was posted before either in this thread, or the combo thread, so check there too).

Nikar said:
2) FC3BB, Umb
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As was noted before, this requires the JF Umbrella. I can't pull this one off, so got nothing more for you here.

Nikar said:
3) A+K B, Umb
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I haven't got this one down 100% yet, but I try to buffer umbrella just as she's landing from :A:+:K:, :B:. I found it to be awkward at first, but that could also be difficulty with umbrella in general. In matches, I try to just go for :3::3::B:, since it's more reliable for me.

Nikar said:
4) 33B, Umb [I can do this one 8 / 10 times currently)
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8/10 is pretty good. Sounds like just need more practice.

Nikar said:
5) 3B, Umb [this is hard as hell]
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Can't comment on this one, haven't even tried it.

Nikar said:
Btw, for 1) and 3), my Umb always comes out after the guy has already landed on the ground. Damn.
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This will go away once you get the buffering down, particularly on 1. The first time I pulled these off, I understood the timing, so it gets easier once you've done it the first time.
 
Thanks a lot, Ahrez! To be honest, I'm not adept at reading frames either. All I know are basic frame stuff like i26 = 26 frames, -20 means 20 frames on recovery. Beyond that, I know nuts about frames. And that's why I didn't reply to Cheese's post above, because......I......

.....couldn't understand a single word he said. LOL! X-D
No hard feelings, Cheese, you know I love you always, but noobs like me will be noobs, so it takes a long time to come to your level and understand what you said. :-D

And Ahrez, I'll go practice now. Thanks! :-)
 
Vivoco Viva La Vida Voco Loca dear,

It's impossible for any human alive to be able to use his eyes to read and discern 60 different animations per second. No fucking human eye can do that.

Reading "frame data" is different from reading "frames". :-D

And yes, Mandarin will be easier than reading frames. :-D
 
Vivoco88 said:
WAIT2

how to read frames? duh, it doesnt say anything on my screen
Click to expand...

As has been said, it's not really reading the frames. Frames are just a more empirical way of measuring how fast your move has to come out (or if it needs to be a JF). For example, taking the valuable info Cheese has given us -

1) 214B+G, Umb - you have 2 frames window for umbrella. So you can make 13 frame umbrella and it will still connect (also iFCA will) (On Astaroth sometimes you have to make 12i umbrella).
Click to expand...
This means that either JF Umbrella, or the fastest non-JF umbrella will connect (this is correct, right? If not, please correct me). You have 2 frames from the end of the previous move to input the umbrella. In terms of execution, it means you need to learn when you can actually start inputting the umbrella motion such that it will execute within that time frame (for me, this means beginning the input as soon as the final cross-slash starts in the throw)

2) FC3BB, Umb - 1 frame only. Must be 12i umbrella. From max ranged fc3B:B, 12i umbrella will miss.
Click to expand...
JF Umbrella only.

etc. etc. (I won't go over all 5)

I find it's best to think of this as shorthand. 2 frames = really fast, 1 frame = JF only, so on and so forth.
 
Your right. It's really nothing hard. If you can connect iFC A (13i) after 214B+G and you cant connect 2A (14i) that's means your opponent have "standing" state for 13 frames after your recovery ends. So you can make 12i umbrella if you end exe this move in 1st frame after your recovery (of 214B+G) ends, or 13i umbrella if you end exe in 2nd frame after your recovery ends.
 
I have a question , an this may sound super noobish , cause Im sure no1's had any trouble pushing the buttons before , but any1 who uses a 360 controller , do you change your grip to jumpy thing (A+K) cause I cant do it with my thumb without pressing G or B in between, any advice ??
 
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