Setsuka - Q&A Thread

[ioKain]

True that on Nightmare. Found out I would rather master Sets's JF's rather than remember all the damn character specific crap there is for Nightmare. This is my first Soul Calibur game, is that a common thing with all the character specific crap that goes on with Nightmare? Was that crap in other SC's? Haven't noticed that on any other character.

 

[Nikar]

I don't wanna rant and rave here, but I need a place, right? :-)

Well.....today....was probably the saddest day of my life in SC4....I met my biggest setbacks.
I've been training and using Sets for almost 3 weeks, and I think I trained myself pretty hard.

I can do most of her moves easily, except for the JF ones.
Even for the JF ones, I can pull some of them off quite easily, like 1B : B, FC3B : B and BT BK : B.
I can do the B+K series most of the time and today, I was training myself doing the normal Umbrella and it's going good(JF Umb and 1A series will be for the future).

However, I fought with a friend just now using only Setsuka.
He's a button-masher but he knows how to spam throws whenever I'm even close to him, and his pattern is to keep blocking and wait after I finished my attack, then punish me with random button mashes again.

At first, I used Nightmare to fool around with him, but after my Nightmare LOST 6 STRAIGHT FUCKING matches (VS. Kilik, Asta, Yun-Seong, Mitsu, Siegfried [this was a very tight match that ended with NM eaten a CF due to me blocking too much]....) at one go, I stop it and used Sets. Results:


1st match: Sets VS Asta
No problem here. I won 5 - 0. However, I must say it took a bit of effort to take Asta down, because most of Sets' attacks don't do much damage to him and he does big damage to Sets.
My solution was to keep rushing Asta down right in his face and he's too slow to retaliate or spam cheap Asta tricks like 1A or bull-rush etc.


2nd match: Sets VS Rock
Same as Asta. Won 5 - 0. Rock's AA did give me some problem whenever I try to get close to him, but I threw out bA once in a while, and the rest of the time, I rush him down like crazy.


3rd match: Sets VS Kilik
Everytime I fight a Kilik = guaranteed lose for me. I lost 4 rounds and won 1 match.
Just now, I wanted to cry cos' I was so helpless. I wanted to throw my controller at the TV.
I CAN'T EVEN TOUCH KILIK!!!!! OMFG, screw you Namco. If Kilik isn't god-tier, I dunno what is.

All this c**t ever do is to button-mash random crap like 66AA, 4A, 1A, 4B, 1B, 2A, 2B and other easy-to-use crap, and my Sets can't even touch him. 80% of the time when I try to advance, he pushes me back further and this kept going on and on till my life slowly got wasted bit by bit.
Lost my sanity, and I tried to just rush him down and disregard my lifebar, but well, it failed badly.

In the few moments which I managed to get close to Kilik and rush him down with fast moves like BB, 3K, BB, 3K, AA, BB, 3K....rinse and repeat, I did have some success. However....in between these moves where I need to recover a bit......he does that B+G throw.
Know what it is? Yes, the Kilik's Ultimate Guaranteed RO throw.

For 4 matches I lost, 3 are RO by this Kilik B+G.
Screw you, Kilik. I can now see why you're so hated everywhere.


4th match: Voldo VS Sets
This time, my friend randomly chose Voldo the Weirdo. Results? He won, 3 rounds to my 2 rounds. And what did he use this time? Mashing AA and BB, and once in a while, throwing out some weird random moves by random mashing.

I thought Sets' BB is very fast, but it's **** compared to Voldo. Voldo's BB has longer range and comes out just as fast, if not, faster. It's crazy. He keeps doing BB and AA non-stop till my eyes go blind and I can't GI cos' it's too fast. Sometimes, he does random moves, so it's hard to GI safely. Whenever I use Sets' common moves like 66BA, BB, 44BA, 33B, he almost always block it and then punish me with AA and BB.
Most of my damage on him were due to Sets' random bA, 22A+B and the occasional A+K B ---> B+G.

The only consolation from this match was that I managed to do B+K series 1- 2 times on Voldo, after landing a 6K. Sometimes, I wonder why Sets didn't have an excellent SG attack. Her ag:B and B+K does big damage to the SG, but it's so slow and hardly usable.


5th match: Sets VS Maxi
I lost this too. He won 4 rounds to my 1 round. And that 1 round was because he accidentally RO himself at the See-Saw stage. Myself.....I got RO 3 times.

Maxi is crazy fast if you know how to mash him. His chunks has bigger range than most of Sets' moves. The chunks keep coming and coming and I was basically blocking it with no time to retaliate. And Maxi has that commonly guard-break attack during the 3rd hit of one of his attack.
He uses that a lot and everytime I took a GB, I needed time to recover and then he starts button-mashing me down again. In terms of speed, Maxi definitely is on par or better than Sets.

Well, I just feel so disheartened that this crap can happen. I spent lots of time to train Sets, read forum posts here, watched youtube videos, but well.....I got raped so hard. This guy doesn't even know what moves he's doing, and just ram the buttons however he sees fit.

I dunno......I gotta do some soul-searching on my Sets and see what area I gotta improve on.

Thanks for listening. I'm sure we've all been raped by button-mashers one time or another, eh?
Or is it just me?! Damn!

SETSUKA, TOGETHER, WE WILL RAPE BUTTON-MASHERS ONE DAY!!!!!!!!! >:-O
Nikar

 

[UnbredSoul]

^GI'ing works really well against spammers for me. And Sets' A+B auto-GI is one of the best in the game, you should definitely try to include that into your game (if you haven't already). As for Kilik, what I find is that most Kilik spammers like to hit high a lot, so ducking every now and then is not a bad idea. When you see them whiff, you can punish quickly with umbrella (it's much easier to pull off from a crouched position and it can punish from a good range).

 

[eltoshan]

So you are getting "punished" after safe moves? Maybe you should try not attacking at disadvantage and step instead, or against mashers, just block and retaliate. It also sounds like you need to get to know the other characters better. If the Kilik likes to spam highs then just hit him with TC moves like 4A and 33B for big damage.

 

[Nikar]

So you are getting "punished" after safe moves? Maybe you should try not attacking at disadvantage and step instead, or against mashers, just block and retaliate.

Thanks, but exactly what does "attacking at disadvantage" means? Like I shouldn't attack after my previous attack has ended, due to need to recover?

It also sounds like you need to get to know the other characters better

I think this is very true, LOL. Any ideas how to get to know the other characters' attacks better? I know how to block some moves like Sieg's AAB and Kilik's 66AA and can see it coming very well, but every other moves in the game......well, I dunno how to block them very well. Btw, I've played a lot of story mode, arcade mode and TOSL, but I still can't remember how to block every attack in the game.
Still not familiar.

^GI'ing works really well against spammers for me. And Sets' A+B auto-GI is one of the best in the game, you should definitely try to include that into your game (if you haven't already). As for Kilik, what I find is that most Kilik spammers like to hit high a lot, so ducking every now and then is not a bad idea. When you see them whiff, you can punish quickly with umbrella (it's much easier to pull off from a crouched position and it can punish from a good range).

Yeah, but it's hard to GI reliably against a random masher. U can't predict what move he's gonna pull off next. Add to that, the timing, and you've more problems on your hands.

 

[eltoshan]

Most of the moves in the game, after being blocked, leaves the attacker at disadvantageous frames. For example, if you were to do AA and it gets blocked, you are at -6, meaning your opponent has 6 frames of advantage. So while Setsuka's BB and Voldo's BB are the same speed (i16), Voldo's BB will hit you first because it comes out 6 frames earlier. This is a very basic fundamental of the game, knowing when you can be interrupted or when you are uninterruptable, working around minor disadvantage to your favor will come later.

I suggest going through the frame data and getting a feel for what you are dealing with for her common moves on block and hit.

 

[Nikar]

Thanks Elto! Btw, against people who keep blocking all the time, is there a good and short Setsuka combo to break their SG asap?

B+K and ag:B is kinda slow to pull off due to the recovery frames.

How about Umbrella? Good? It seems to crush SG quite easily and is safe to spam till the SG is broken, but well, kinda hard to input.

Talking about Umbrella (non-JF), do you guys do:

1) rotate 214, then netural position (5), then press 3 + aB?

or

2) rotate 214 and without lifting thumb, slide the thumb directly to 3 and then 3 + aB?

I'm currently using 1) now, because every time I try 2), Umb won't come out and 214A (also known as WR A) will come out instead.

Thanks!
Nikar

 

[Cupui]

for people blocking all the time I think using throw is better than raping his SG LOL

about the umbrella...

I'm a stick player
but I think I use no. 2

after u finish input 214, as soon as possible hit 3aB
as long u do 214 correctly the umbrella will come out

 

[Nikar]

for people blocking all the time I think using throw is better than raping his SG LOL

LOL, yeah, but if he keeps giving me a hard time, then trying to CF him would be a better and faster way to end the match, assuming I can. :-)

Btw, I've some questions here: Since 2B+K forces opponents to tech-crouch when blocked, does that mean I could go on to do B+K series? Will it be fast enough?
I was thinking of 2B+K, if blocked ---> opponent tech-crouch ---> then ---> B+K series.

 

[eltoshan]

4 throws from setsuka = round over, much faster than CFing somebody.

The concept of force crouch and tech crouch are different. Tech crouch is when a move has crouching effects against highs and sometimes mids; force crouch means when a move is blocked/hit the opponent recovers crouching. As for your question, B+K series will not be fast enough. If you go look at the frame data, 2B+K is -3 on block, and B+K is i23, making B+K after 2B+K effectively i26.

The advantage of using some moves that force crouch is that even though you are at negative frames, the advantage is often minor, and from forced crouch your opponent's options are much more limited. Forcing crouch is an easy way to set up GI and A+B since move WS moves are mid. Forcing crouch is also good as a set up for side stepping as most of the best WS/FC moves are linear. And finally, moves that force crouch and leave you at only slight disadvantage like 2B+K can be a pseudo frame trap for Umbrella, because most WS moves are i15/i16~ish or slower, and shorter range moves like most FC 2A will be outranged due to the pushback on 2B+K.

 

[Nikar]

Wow, I see! Thanks for the info!

Actually, 4 throws from Sets isn't enough to win a round, not if we're fighting a VS match with a full blue lifebar. :-D

 

[Shade_Buster]

Basically everyone here takes into account that the fight uses 100% lifebars, the default.

 

[Nikar]

LOL, thanks.....because everytime when I fight with offline friends, it's always 200% lifebar and 200% SG, and 5 matches. :-)

Btw, how do you guys get familiar with all the characters moves......familiar enough to block them when you see them coming? I was thinking that assuming each character has 15 moves and there's 27 characters, that'll be 405 moves we're talking about. Of course, it's more than 405 different moves, because each character has more than 15 moves. I think 460 - 490+ would be a better figure.

There's no way I'm gonna be able to remember how to GI or successfully block that amt of moves, so is it worth going to Training Mode and spent 1 month learning how to guard each character's movesets? Like spend 1 month on learning and blocking / GI-ing all of Kilik moves, then 1 month for Lizardman etc......27 months total.

I was trying the above just now against Kilik and it's boggling my brain. Damn.

 

[eltoshan]

There's only standing guard and low guard in this game, so I don't see why learning to block a low is so hard. To get familiar with a character's moves I would just take the specific character into training mode and go through the move list, noting all the lows.

 

[UnbredSoul]

Talking about Umbrella (non-JF), do you guys do:

1) rotate 214, then netural position (5), then press 3 + aB?

or

2) rotate 214 and without lifting thumb, slide the thumb directly to 3 and then 3 + aB?

I'm currently using 1) now, because every time I try 2), Umb won't come out and 214A (also known as WR A) will come out instead.

Thanks!
Nikar

I usually do 2) since 1) takes too long and you need to be able to pull out umbrella fast whether you're using it to punish or end combos. On another note, I personally loathe WR A because of how many times it has come out while trying to do JF umbrella! In my opinion, learning to do the JF umbrella or following up A+KB with umbrella is by far the hardest thing to learn when playing as Sets. The regular version isn't that bad though.

 

[Cupui]

a better way to learn dealing with other character is often have a match with em

personally even I main sieg, I still having much trouble dealing with sieg LOL
because I rarely find a sieg user here ;P

 

[Nikar]

There's only standing guard and low guard in this game, so I don't see why learning to block a low is so hard. To get familiar with a character's moves I would just take the specific character into training mode and go through the move list, noting all the lows.

Yeah, I know.....for me, the hard part is that some moves look as if they go high but actually hits low, and some moves are 3 hits, and the first 2 hits hit mid, and then the 3rd hit suddenly hits low.

Also, some moves are really hard to block. As an example:

1) Trying blocking Kilik's 4B at close range if he suddenly does it

2) Kilik's Monument (236) stance. From Monument (which has auto-GI), he can branch out and do 3 - 4 possible follow-up combinations, like one which hits low, one which hits high etc.....how are you going to guess which follow-up he will do? It's like a lottery game.

 

[Nikar]

I usually do 2) since 1) takes too long and you need to be able to pull out umbrella fast whether you're using it to punish or end combos. On another note, I personally loathe WR A because of how many times it has come out while trying to do JF umbrella!

LOL, same here! Actually, when I do Umb using 1), it comes out a lot more reliably, although it's kinda slow. 2) is much faster, but like you, WR A comes out 70% of the time. At least for me. Dang. It's my most hated move now.

In my opinion, learning to do the JF umbrella or following up A+KB with umbrella is by far the hardest thing to learn when playing as Sets. The regular version isn't that bad though.

Yeah, regular version of Umb is still ok, but for JF Umb, I heard that the 2143 input can be done normally, just that the aB slide has to be at it's maximum fastest, like Mitsu's bA (fastest input version).

I'm not even sure how I'm gonna do JF Umb's aB sliding.....even when doing Mitsu's bA fastest version, I can't can't it to come out, not to mention JF Umb. Even when greasing the thumb and such is useless and unthinkable.
I can slide A to B using all my energy and it still won't come out. Anyway, I wanna master the normal Umb first. :-D

Namco should bear in mind that most of us don't have super reflexes to slide the human thumb from A to B in 0.5 seconds or less. And some of us like me are already 24 years old and as you age, reflexes tend to get stiffer.

personally even I main sieg, I still having much trouble dealing with sieg LOL because I rarely find a sieg user here ;P

LOL, have you tried fighting CPU Siegfried on Edge Master difficulty? Then maybe you can try guarding and GI-ing as much of it's attacks as possible. X-D

 

[Cupui]

LOL, have you tried fighting CPU Siegfried on Edge Master difficulty? Then maybe you can try guarding and GI-ing as much of it's attacks as possible. X-D

LOL VS CPU and VS human is different story dude XP

Even you can massacring an edge master sieg's CPU
doesn't guarantee you can deal with a good sieg player
personally I Fell that VS CPU will destroy my play style

that's why I stop fighting a CPU LOL

 

[heywtf]

(back to umbrella... sorry. see post #137)

Still having problems here with 214~3aB. It's really bugging me because I can crouch and do 3aB easily enough, so doing the aB slide (I assume) isn't the issue, and I can do 214~3B:B or 214~3A+B easily enough, so the 214~3 input isn't an issue either... yet I still always end up doing 214A instead of the umbrella when I try it. I guess my timing's a bit off?

I'm really not sure what I'm asking. I used to have trouble with B+K, 61B etc until someone suggested thinking in terms of B+K6, 1B etc, and that helped a lot. Dunno if there's anything like that here...

Using the 360 stick if that makes any difference.