Soul Calibur 6 Discussion

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Darkmoonlight said:
Question for tourney players:
What is the criteria necessary for a Bonus Character to be considered legal? I think assassin was legal right?
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I think the only solid criteria is whether they were console exclusive or not.
everything else is just kinda moderated as needed to be:
as a few examples during SC2 days Sophie, Mina, Lizardman, Assassin, Berserker etc were banned because they were on consoles and not on arcades...then that changed. Then came along the issue of guests like Heihachi, Spawn and Link who were banned altogether because they existed on seperate consoles...then that changed when SC2:HDO came along.
Necrid was banned for a good while iirc aswell because he was an untested, janky mess, I could be wrong on that tho

flashforward to SCIV where Darth Vader and Yoda were banned temporarily for similar reasons, being console exclusives. On the subject of Scheharazade, Kamikirimusi, Shura etc; while they existed on both consoles, it was due to the fact that as G1 stated their hitboxes were completely messed up that there was no consistent standard for them, moves would flat out whiff for no reason and you could end making baiting a move out and forcing it to whiff...only for some phantom hitbox to clip you from out of left field.

and then comes SCV, where we have Devil Jins style. the thing about CaS is that you can alter your characters size and body shape. meaning you can get as much jank from the bonus characters in SC4 occurring all over again, however Avylon created the standard for Devil Jins use, so most likely, if any jank occurs...it'll be consistent at least.

hope that helps
 
While I do understand that competitive players want some focus on some aspect casuals do not understand/do not care about, they too should understand that casuals are sometimes willing to give more depth to their created characters (I personally like to create a background for my CaS) and bonus characters in III were interesting as they were given some identity (without having to create a canon character) as well as some fresh "feeling".

The best would be for casuals to understand that competitive players want balance in the game as well as well designed moves (no whiff), but also for competitive players to understand that it is at first a one-player game in which player want some offline material.
 
Rex Dart said:
It seems to me CAS stuff should be banned from tournaments anyway, so I don't see a problem with adding CAS-specific styles. Just my two cents.
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The problem with that is that they'd be essentially making characters a significant number of players would never play. I'd rather they spend those resources bringing back characters people actually care about and making them good.
 
JohnMcKee said:
While I do understand that competitive players want some focus on some aspect casuals do not understand/do not care about, they too should understand that casuals are sometimes willing to give more depth to their created characters (I personally like to create a background for my CaS) and bonus characters in III were interesting as they were given some identity (without having to create a canon character) as well as some fresh "feeling".

The best would be for casuals to understand that competitive players want balance in the game as well as well designed moves (no whiff), but also for competitive players to understand that it is at first a one-player game in which player want some offline material.
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And what casuals have to understand is that competitive players don't give a fuck either way as long as resources aren't taken away from character/game balance, character selection, etc.
I would wish that casuals get everything they want in this game I really do. The fear is that if resources were poured into that then it might take away resources from the competitive aspect of the game. That's all I've really seen competitive players say, "I hope they focus on the gameplay more so than the fluff. If there's a choice to be made then please focus on the actual gameplay." This is commonly mistaken for "Fuck everything single player or aesthetic wise just make this the most balanced game period".

One of the larger contentions tournament players have with casuals is when they speak on things that deal with the competitive aspect of the game. How can you have an informed opinion on what needs to be, can be, should be in/out of tournament play if you're not there? How can you talk about tiers, balance, match ups, etc. when the only way you have any knowledge on that is from what WE tell you? That's when you'll get a tournament/competitive player come in and say things like "You don't know what you're talking about" or whatever.

So basically sure we hope you get everything you want as long as it doesn't take away from the actual game play. Also know that we are going to do what is best to keep our competitive scene alive and if that means you don't get to see you're favorite character/stage/CaS equipment on a stream where you are watching US play the game then so be it. You can keep all those opinions to yourself because as raw as this may sound, they are inconsequential.
 
Norik said:
The problem with that is that they'd be essentially making characters a significant number of players would never play. I'd rather they spend those resources bringing back characters people actually care about and making them good.
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I guess it all comes down to how worried you are about Namco-Bandai skimping on some aspect of the game. After SC4 and SC5, I can definitely understand having low expectations.

Honestly, I'd be okay with no CAS at all if they added tons of customization options for the main cast. If you could dress up Mitsu in any of the samurai gear he's ever had, for example. But that's not going to happen.

If we imagine (hypothetically) that resources have already been allocated for CAS stuff, I would be very happy if CAS-specific styles were added using those resources. In other words, I'd gladly give up aesthetic CAS stuff for more gameplay CAS stuff.

In the end, we're all just praying that Bamco is budgeting for this game wisely.
 
Three days left!

Norik said:
The problem with that is that they'd be essentially making characters a significant number of players would never play. I'd rather they spend those resources bringing back characters people actually care about and making them good.
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This.
 
If they were gonna have CaS only styles I'd rather THOSE were the DLC since it'd be easier to make them out without having to worry as much about other assets such as voice, story, art and general design work, etc etc etc.

Personally though as much fun as the the CaS were, if it took time away from developed characters than I'd be against it. Were the characters representing the CaS in 3 usable in tournies? Might be a quick and dirty way to make more styles and have them be tourney legal maybe.
 
Macaulyn said:
To begin with, Devil Jin was not banned from competitive play. And yeah, lets not add something millions of players want just because a few dozens won't use it in a tournament. Nice logic +1.
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Devil Jin was banned for 3 years from competative play in America and is still banned in Europe from my understanding, the end result of this ban is that devil jin is now an underdeveloped character that no one plays. You will also notice that I said to "Not limit" a character to CAS. This means, spend the handful art resources it takes to turn a character from a CAS moveset to a full character. The overwhleming majority of a chatracter's cost is spent on developing a moveset, not the way a character looks. Just develop a charcter not a CAS , is what I am asking. This is not in any way shape or form an unreasonable proposition and perfectly fine logic.

Edit: Oh darn looks like everyone got their shot to respond to you before i did. How inconvient.
 
Having a selection of CaS only styles always seemed like a missed opportunity to me in SC4 and 5 (DJ barely counts) although having barely played SC3 I have no idea how well they really worked. But that said I think the best way to encourage people to use the CaS may be having a selection of styles available in some way as the No.1 thing that has always put me off CaS is how bland it feels using the existing characters styles for your own unique characters.

May as well not bother with it and just concentrate on the main characters and let us customise them instead but we all know that's not going to happen...

On the subject of competition it seems to me that competitive play is the natural progression in playing the game. Basically if someone is enjoying playing the game and ends up putting the hours in they naturally may want to take it further. Key word is 'enjoying'. I don't like this communities tendency to want to black-ball people into the scene in order to 'fit in'. That's no fun, if people are only competing because they feel they have to it devalues actually playing the game for everyone.

Enjoyment is what everyone's aiming for and that starts with casual. I'm not saying neglect the competitive aspects but casual should come first I think. If you make that good enough people could naturally want to take it further which is where the competitiveness comes in.

Ideally one would not come at the expense of the other but if you think about when they make the game 99% of the modes and features are being used by casuals while all the competitive need is the Vs. mode, practice and balancing.
 
I play for fun, not for the artsy shit. But I'm 100 years away from being on a competitive level in any fighting game.

I just don't give a shit about bringing back the bonus SCIII extra CAS styles. If Soul Calibur III was better received and was less buggy maybe I would clamor for it.

But I think it's a waste of time and resources. Why not just spend the extra time and make them a full character like Hwang, Li Long and Amy in SCIII AE? Why half ass it? Why bother with a small shit movelist when you can turn it into a full decent move list?

In Soul Calibur III they had the time and luxury to do that stuff. In 2018, with the series barely clinging to life I want the absolute best experience. We don't need stuff that can drag the game down.

TL:DR Instead of bringing back those half assed CAS styles just make them fleshed out into unique characters/movelists
 
GreatOne1939 said:
And what casuals have to understand is that competitive players don't give a fuck either way as long as resources aren't taken away from character/game balance, character selection, etc.
I would wish that casuals get everything they want in this game I really do. The fear is that if resources were poured into that then it might take away resources from the competitive aspect of the game. That's all I've really seen competitive players say, "I hope they focus on the gameplay more so than the fluff. If there's a choice to be made then please focus on the actual gameplay." This is commonly mistaken for "Fuck everything single player or aesthetic wise just make this the most balanced game period".

One of the larger contentions tournament players have with casuals is when they speak on things that deal with the competitive aspect of the game. How can you have an informed opinion on what needs to be, can be, should be in/out of tournament play if you're not there? How can you talk about tiers, balance, match ups, etc. when the only way you have any knowledge on that is from what WE tell you? That's when you'll get a tournament/competitive player come in and say things like "You don't know what you're talking about" or whatever.

So basically sure we hope you get everything you want as long as it doesn't take away from the actual game play. Also know that we are going to do what is best to keep our competitive scene alive and if that means you don't get to see you're favorite character/stage/CaS equipment on a stream where you are watching US play the game then so be it. You can keep all those opinions to yourself because as raw as this may sound, they are inconsequential.
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This is absolutely understandable and totally normal: I personally do listen to people more proficient in a field than I am. But most of the time if a casual wishes for something, the "not acceptable in tournaments" argument is brought up.

Of course I prefer a balanced game over fan services, but there is strictly no reason for one part of the playerbase to alienate the other, as well as there is no reason for developers to focus on one part of the community while leaving the other one to rot. SCV was supposed to be more competitive oriented (so was it beaten into my head) yet failed on both competitive and casuals sides. Let's hope we get a complete offline experience as well as an excellent competitive-oriented side of the game.
 
Rex Dart said:
I guess it all comes down to how worried you are about Namco-Bandai skimping on some aspect of the game.
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It's not about them "skimping" on content, it's about making a good game under budget constraints. They have to make 3D models, motion-capture all the animations, design entire movesets, playtest extensively to ensure balance, and program a stable online platform with efficient matchmaking and minimal input delay. All of these things are labor intensive and far more expensive than they were fifteen years ago when SC3 was being developed. Add to that the costs associated with CaS and single player modes and you've got one hell of an expensive game to make. I don't want that budget being wasted on broken clones of existing characters that will be banned from day one, especially knowing that it would be at the expense of real characters.
JohnMcKee said:
they too should understand that casuals are sometimes willing to give more depth to their created characters
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How does using the stock sword-and-shield style instead of Sophitia's or the generic katana swordsman over Mitsurugi give CaS "more depth"?
 
Are movelists copyrighted/trademarked? Could PS get away with bringing back guest movelists or retooling them for future new characters?

Some characters have cool weapons like Spawn minus the flying crap. You could turn Darth Vader and the Apprentice moves into standard katana or sword wielding people and remove all Jedi style attacks.

Hell if you wanted to you could bring back Yoda's moves if you changed it significantly.

But that's me. I don't like the idea of wasted movelists. Keep the series green and recycle!
 
TekkenLover said:
Are movelists copyrighted/trademarked? Could PS get away with bringing back guest movelists or retooling them for future new characters?

Some characters have cool weapons like Spawn minus the flying crap. You could turn Darth Vader and the Apprentice moves into standard katana or sword wielding people and remove all Jedi style attacks.

Hell if you wanted to you could bring back Yoda's moves if you changed it significantly.

But that's me. I don't like the idea of wasted movelists. Keep the series green and recycle!
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Well they did give Aeon the Kratos moveset from Broken Destiny so there’s that.
 
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