Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I made some basic statistics again, not from my matches this time, but from the ranking table per character (on Steam).
I watched for each character the number of players with a A, B, C, D or E rank.

the first graph gives a good idea of the popularity of the characters on steam:

View attachment 57480

The position of 2B is skewed because it is a recent DLC. Tira also probably pays for being (unpopular day-one) DLC, but she appears already, with Voldo, less popular than 2B.
Seeing the top, I guess players love big sword and big breast (double check for 2B!). Bamco probably knew it, would explain both season pass and Tira's cup size change...
I'm surprise to see Asta so high, and Geralt and Azwel so low. Geralt was very popular after launch, but it seems the interest for the witcher quickly run out of breath.

I also wonder if a character was doing better than the others proportionnaly. So I ranked them according the ratio [players above C5 / players above E5]View attachment 57481
So again, there is many bias : 2B had less time, there is pre-patch and post-patch data behind, the ranking system is arbitrary (I would have something different with D+ instead of C+)...

Also, I don't sell it as a tier list because it's online, and that mostly reflects casual players. Buuut the tier-list participates, among other factors, to this ranking.

Note that on steam, There is currently juste one A-ranked player (a Raphael). There was previously a S-ranked Inferno, but he got ban.

I take this opportunity to congratulate 8wayrun's players that are sitting on first page of their character. I remember seing @MONEYMUFFINS :sc4sop1: , @Party Wolf :sc1kil1: , @Hayate :sc1kil1:, @Kura :sc2tal1:, @Ring :sc1ivy3: and probably other I forgot or don't recognize (sorry). Good job!

Edit : forgot Ring_PL!
Are there really that few users above E5 per character on all of Steam? Surely even with Steam being the least common platform for the game that's like, at most, one player in ten? Fifteen? Holy moly there's a lot of casuals buying this game! I hope it's a sign of a revival in broad popularity. Can you link to the steam metadata page from which you sourced your figures?


Does anyone know a good strat to beat Raphael.

Sophie and Zas struggle against him.

My main problem is openings I find very very little.
Although his attacks are mainly vertical focused his attack speed is pretty brutal and they usually come with knockdown follow ups,
I don’t know if I’m getting up right either as im getting trapped into more follow ups.

And the fact his punishes cancel into a CE just leaves me lost.

I’ve tried stepping and ducking but I’m getting caught out really badly he’s either way too fast or his range is surprisingly long.
I wish I could provide something more concrete, but this is my very abstract and general advice that let's me prevail against him more often than not: Number one, don't be afraid to embrace spending a little more time guarding than you might normally be inclined to do. Raphael is at his most effective when he preserves a relatively static amount of range that is at the outer edge of mid-range. And while he has range and speed in the sense of wind-up frames, that's not the same as returning to neutral fast and that's where he is weaker; he cannot keep up sustained pressure from a distance. The trick is to make the Raph-wielder feel like they have you cowering in turtle mode (well, to an extent, they often do) and, when they think they are setting the pace, have them come in too close while trying to apply the pressure. In that mid range your Zas (and to a lesser extent, Sophie) will have more options and if you're anticipating that moment, you'll have a decent shot at taking the frame advantage at that point. And your opponent will have to be careful about trying to lean on their own quicker mid/close range attacks because many give significant frame disadvantages on block and/or have wide punishable windows regardless, relative to the close range arsenals of many other characters at that range. You already identified step as essential, and once you break your opponent out of the pacing inherit in Rapha's safe zone, you'll have a better shot at that, though as you obviously already know, Raphael has the tools to punish even then, if you get too one-note in your approach.

Again, I know that's a little generalized, but I really don't know Zas or Sophitia well enough to give you a more detailed match-up break down. For that matter it's been a loooong time since I gave Raphael's frame data (even if we had it nailed down for this game already) a detailed look or even so much as did match-up training against him. And while the above works well for me, my characters tend to be speed demons--there may be a more efficacious way to to do this with the decent mid range options of those two characters.
 
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Mitalius

BoW To MeH
Does anyone know a good strat to beat Raphael.

Sophie and Zas struggle against him.

My main problem is openings I find very very little.
Although his attacks are mainly vertical focused his attack speed is pretty brutal and they usually come with knockdown follow ups,
I don’t know if I’m getting up right either as im getting trapped into more follow ups.

And the fact his punishes cancel into a CE just leaves me lost.

I’ve tried stepping and ducking but I’m getting caught out really badly he’s either way too fast or his range is surprisingly long.
Playing against Raph is a game of chess. You have to anticipate his pattern depending on the player. I'm no expert on raph so I couldn't really get technical with him but try this....Just space him out. That might help you find more openings.
 

Heniek

[10] Knight
That's neat! SC5 also had some unsued intros and win poses that were found through hex editing. This video covers a lot of them:
The most interesting one IMO is Devil Jin using Yun-seong's intro pose.
Is it just me or did this game barely changed visually outside of more eyestabing flashiness?
 
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ThalionPIR

[05] Battler
Are there really that few users above E5 per character on all of Steam? Surely even with Steam being the least common platform for the game that's like, at most, one player in ten? Fifteen? Holy moly there's a lot of casuals buying this game! I hope it's a sign of a revival in broad popularity. Can you link to the steam metadata page from which you sourced your figures?
I just read the ranking in-game, so I have nothing to link.
Regarding your question, I took a further look at Raphael :
  • the last E5 Raph is ranked 301th
  • the last G5 Raph is ranked 2559th (as a reminder, G5 is 300PC)
  • the last entrie is 5000th with 0 PC (guess it's caped)
So if you keep G5+ as playerbase for Raphaël, there is 12% above E5 and 3% above D5 (make feel like elite).
But in game you barely see those F/G players because, well, they barely play. Higher the rank, more active the player. I encounter C-player each day, althought they represent less than 1%.

Also, I guess the matchmaking is doing its job, despite appearances.
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
You complain about lag on Steam, which is supposed to be a better platform for online than my ps4. Yet I play Siegfried and I can tell you that stance mixups DO get interupted and punished all the time. I don't know what kind of potato router you're using but I don't have that kind of lag. People who know how to fight Siegfried keep me honest just as if I was playing offline. People still block lows and then punish.
There is a certain low that is 100% reactable (not 60 not 99% but 100%) from neutral offline that was still 100% reactable after release online.
Then 1.01 happened and said low was almost impossible to deal with (dunno what they did to netcode).
After 1.02 depends…. not even on distance… against a friend who lives in my same country, in the same lobby the same day sometime you get super smooth matches sometimes you get some more latence.

And sometimes you even get ONE SIDE only unstable framerate sorta thing.
And its a netcode thing not a router not an ISP and not an hardware problem.

Consider tests with friends and due to my work i have quite an experience with networking so i can rule out local problems.

At most there is a few frames of lag. Why don't you do what I do and only search for 4+ bars? Anything less and I will notice lag.
"few frames of lag" its exactly what changes between a reactable move and a non reactable move.


The only thing I notice is the occasional lag spike but 99% of the time it's pretty seamless. Also, why are you playing people in different countries anyway?

Seems to me like the quality of your internet and the close proximity to your opponent matters more for online lag than the platform you play on. People complain about ps4 lag all the time yet I see people on steam experiencing more of it than I do....It's only once in a blue moon where it's bad for me.
Sure it does, you cannot change the internet after all, but there is a thing called netcode and in this case is not so good (not bad as scIV but not as good as scV either).

You also said that the devs should be nerfing Sieg. I'm curious what you think is unbalanced about him. Sure he can dish out gobs of damage but he takes risks and is slow and unsafe, all stances interruptable.
aB is too powerful in every form
The low kick poke in stance (forgot the name) should be punishable if blocked.
But mostly his godly tracking.
Its stupid (like for NM 6BBBB) that if i step a vertical move and dare to attempt to punish, my attack get caught in his vertical animation i already stepped….

Explosion falls in the category of panic buttons and i thing the game should be cleaned of all panic buttons.

He can't apply pressure the same way others with +frames can.
he can indeed, still testing it but aB is a braindead tool expecially in SC.
Should not be a tech trap, tracking frametrap with mixups on block.
Something should be removed or it become spammable universal tool.

I know you can 2a but its not guaranteed and for a move that strong there need to be a way out.

His CE is ass, his SC is underwhelming,
Nope his CE can be comboed.
His sc can benefit the usual spammable aB

I'm not saying Sieg isn't a strong character, but he certainly isn't a brainless 3 move character like Mina.
As it is now he can abuse 2 moves and use the rest of the moveset as variation but that move is godly.

A month ago i started to count for fun the number of times 6A+B won a match in major tournaments…. and how often it was blocked.
Do it yourself.
Sure its 1 time gimmick but its also lot of free damage.
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
This right here is what the majority of people who come on here whining about characters need to understand. Although i think in most cases they really dont care and actually expect game balance should cater to their online play.
I will say this.
They dumbed down the game to cater to casual gamers… at this point they SHOULD indeed find a way to balance the game around online AND offline.
The fact they nerfed flapjack and left mina as she is is simbly so silly....
Sieg might get few ringout but mina can literally spam guardbreakers to win on block.
 

Klimat

[08] Mercenary
Huh, I did find it odd how in Libra of Soul when you fight Zasalamel for one last time the text says he turned into a creature; heavily alluding to Abyss. Sadly, Zasalamel still looks the same. However, this shows that they were planning to add his malfested form and they didn't have time nor the budget to do so.
Actually there was an interesting exchange between developers during 1.11 patch discussion that might mean they actually plan to implement Abyss transformation via patch:
Middle guy: We're planning something for Abyss too. Zasalamel is a tactical character, and we would like that when tactics work, good things happen.
Dude left: yeah when I see good players Zasalamel I think it's stylish
Oosaka: Abyss (they seem to talk about the CE in Japanese not SC…) it will become ...
Okubo: hush!
(General laugh)
Okubo: Control you guys there are things not to say.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vArcHa2I0OU3wmy33sEqTWMleroUlODIciy3mw6gk90/edit#heading=h.l4wl6g2mlmuq
Still might be nothing, but might be something as well. After all not so long time ago they did implement proper CaS characters clothes battle damage via patch that was on release exclusive to non-CaS characters only. I remember it was actually a big deal before release with people speculating about the feature, yet they've added it on a later date almost with no fanfare, so I suspect not everyone even realised yet it is actually there.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
There is a certain low that is 100% reactable (not 60 not 99% but 100%) from neutral offline that was still 100% reactable after release online.



1) "few frames of lag" its exactly what changes between a reactable move and a non reactable move.

2) aB is too powerful in every form

3) The low kick poke in stance (forgot the name) should be punishable if blocked.

4) Godly tracking

5) Explosion falls in the category of panic buttons and i thing the game should be cleaned of all panic buttons.

6) Nope his CE can be comboed.

7) His sc can benefit the usual spammable aB


8) As it is now he can abuse 2 moves and use the rest of the moveset as variation but that move is godly.

.
oKAY I will address these fallacies one at a time.

1: I don't know what you expect. A lagless online doesn't exist, even with the best tech of today, information has to travel to servers so... again don't know what you expected here.

2: Ab is a bread and butter Sieg tool but it is in no way OP. There is no mixup on block. Ab-SBH-K is a frame trap but the K is -16 on block. SBH A is the low sweep and it's slow as fuck and it's -22 on block. SBH B is the only safe option @ -8 but it's very slow and easily stepped. Your only other option as Sieg is to not go into base hold, which is unsafe -16. Ab slide is a risk if it's not hitting OTG. And lastly, the move is 18 frames and doesn't lead to big damage unless in SC.

3:I really need notations here, dude. I'm gonna assume you're talking about SRSH K, which is 20 frames and -20 on block, if you hold button into stance it's -4, and every option from that stance is slow. The mixup with that and SRSH B is really risky because the B is i18 and -22 on block. In fact the risk/reward is NOT in Sieg's favor.

4: I can only think of a few of his moves with tracking, but Sieg is not the worst offender here. Certainly not 'godly' tracking. Mitsurugi and Geralt have much more ridiculous tracking.

5: Big brain is just a scrub killer. People just go for lows. Everyone knows this. It's a nice combo extender though.

6: The damage scaling on his CE is retarded. Raphaels Super is much better for example because he can do it in his stances. Most Sieg's don't really use his super, it's just SC as a get off me tool more than anything because Sieg has trouble with rushdown pretty hardcore. His Ce is nothing but a linear vertical as far as I'm concerned. It's also i18, one of the slowest CE's in the game.

7: Most people know this and expect this, I find that it doesn't work most of the time.

8: Lol Sieg is a 2 move character? What are you smokin' man? Sieg is one of those characters where almost the entire move set has a use somewhere. I never see Sieg's spamming the same shit over and over, because he doesn't really have cheap shit, at least not on the scale that others have.
 

ShadMaria4ever

[09] Warrior
Unfortunately, I can't say Sieg doesn't have some spammable moves. I had one do the just move-charge repeatedably in SC in an attempt to ring me out.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
Actually there was an interesting exchange between developers during 1.11 patch discussion that might mean they actually plan to implement Abyss transformation via patch:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vArcHa2I0OU3wmy33sEqTWMleroUlODIciy3mw6gk90/edit#heading=h.l4wl6g2mlmuq
Still might be nothing, but might be something as well. After all not so long time ago they did implement proper CaS characters clothes battle damage via patch that was on release exclusive to non-CaS characters only. I remember it was actually a big deal before release with people speculating about the feature, yet they've added it on a later date almost with no fanfare, so I suspect not everyone even realised yet it is actually there.
That sure does sound like they are considering working Abyss somewhere into Zas's moveset--though I have to say, I'm pretty surprised that they are considering such a substantial change as an entire new character modality added as part of a post-release patch. Clothing damage is just a superficial feature which has no effect upon the substance of the gameplay beyond visual flair, whereas adding Abyss (or even just a hint of Abyss), presumably as a feature of Soul Charge, would be unlike any post-release feature they have ever added before. Of course, given the context, it's entirely possible something has gotten lost in translation (in the broader if not literal sense) and what they are really discussing is making Zas look a little like Abyss during Soul Charge, but with no actual new moves or change to the mechanics. That would actually fit almost as well with what they seem to be saying there and would be at least somewhat more consistent with the scope of what typically does and does not change in terms of gameplay after the main release. I kind of hope it's the former and not the latter, though--making a change like this would open the door to more substantial post-release additions to the game formula. And in terms of characters who came out a little lackluster in this entry and could use a bit of augmentation, Zas certainly seems to be a good candidate.
 

Heniek

[10] Knight
Unfortunately, I can't say Sieg doesn't have some spammable moves. I had one do the just move-charge repeatedably in SC in an attempt to ring me out.

Just my 2 cents.
There are several characters that are really obnoxious to deal with while in SC (makes me hoping that they will buff Geralt's anti-SC game). His Ab is quite linear so you could try to sidestep and punish immediately but that of course comes with its own risks
 

AMillionHP

[13] Hero
they SHOULD indeed find a way to balance the game around online AND offline.
I dont really understand how that is possible. There are a certain amount of moves every character has which can be categorized as either reactable or not. The implication on everything not reactable is that you're supposed to anticipate and make a read. We have to assume game balance is tied in with this. If lag makes moves not reactable while without lag they are, how could balance be achieved both ways? I realize a lot of this comes down to exactly how fast the moves are and it may not change much... or it could change a lot. Several moves may not function the way developers intend them to work.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I dont really understand how that is possible. There are a certain amount of moves every character has which can be categorized as either reactable or not. The implication on everything not reactable is that you're supposed to anticipate and make a read. We have to assume game balance is tied in with this. If lag makes moves not reactable while without lag they are, how could balance be achieved both ways? I realize a lot of this comes down to exactly how fast the moves are and it may not change much... or it could change a lot. Several moves may not function the way developers intend them to work.
Yup, and it's pretty clear which variation is going to be the baseline upon which balance is formed. The good news is that there is technology coming down the pipe that, within the next five to ten years, will reduce latency to being functionally close to the threshold of human perception. Which will have a lot more serious implications for uses beyond video games, but eventually it will filter down into entertainment technology as well (though we can only guess how many more years before it become the common household default). That ideal dream scenario aside, however, in the meantime there is some degree of latency with even very fast connections (to say nothing of the average connection), and there's no sense in trying to balance a competitive game based on an ever-variable and less-than-ideal gameplay lag scenario--even if the majority of casual players engage with the game online and even if high level players get a decent amount of their practice in that way these days, you just can't do that without making compromises to the core gameplay.
 
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AriesWarlock

[10] Knight
I do prefer SC3 Setsuka to SC4.
We have so much European representation the dark hair on Setsuka kinda evened things out.
And her kimono was sexy without being overtly sexual.

And her dialogue was a lot better in 3.

As for out fits I’m not sure SC3 had the bulk of the good ones but 4&5 had some decent ones too.

____________________________

I’m anxious to see what Cassandra is gonna be like though some of the changes in SC4 from SC3 I really didn’t like.
Like her 4AB from 3 got butchered in 4 that was such an aggressive tool for me.

Bah! Namco always have to drag shit out. :/

EDIT: As for Setsuka voice set 3 was miles better, she had real grit in her debut.


Disagree. SCIV Setsuka (Tara Plat, Mizuru in Persona 3) has the best voice. When she yells "NOW IT ENDS!" she sounds like a fierce warrior. SCIII Setsuka (Kari Wahlgren) sounds like someone reading a romance novel.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
SCVI is the third game with most participants so far at EVO Japan




KIT pools and top 8. Make sure to like the videos so they know SC brings in the traffic



That wall combo leading into the finisher in the Bibulus v. Astaroth match-up was a thing of beauty. That would have been a slick move under any circumstances...but against somebody who blew through his earlier round with Ivy cheese and then tried to switch it up to Groh in the 11th hour to try to leverage both of the two most top tier characters...