Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

All of the issues with SCVI seem to be budget related which is expected after SCV. The small roster and small amount of stages show this.
All of this was expected as Bamco would be very reluctant to sink any money into the franchise. The devs made the right choice by focusing on the most important aspect of the game which is the gameplay and look of the game.

The game looks great and fun to play, which is what will really sell the game. As long as this does well then we'll get SCVII which will have a bigger budget for the things fans want. For now, I just hope that the game sells very well and that they made good decisions when it comes to the season pass.

EDIT: The Inferno situation is an overcorrection, something that tends to happen when customers seem very against something. The business overcorrects to "fix it". This is the natural result of the anger against mimics.
 
Von_Blackhardt said:
It literally blows my fucking mind that people are complaining about the lack of a mimic - a feature that they were more than willing to drag SCV for (though to be fair I get why 3 mimics is annoying when you have SCV's roster)
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It blows my mind that your mind is blown about it. Its as if you can identify one of the major reasons people dislike SC5 without actually understanding the reason. Several mimics are annoying because they are useless. We dont appreciate the fact that work was done on character models and such for mimics when that time and effort could have been better placed on missing characters or at least unique movesets for them.

While the situation here is definitely not as bad, but it still isnt good and shouldnt happen. We dont need two "Nightmares". If they were going to have Inferno in the game at all, he should be the mimic (only one). That is at least better than a Nightmare clone.

Again, this is all particularly sour if the roster is missing several characters. Its one thing to just tell Cassandra fans to suck it up and deal with the fact that their character is not here but its a little bit different to tell them that when they get to play a Soulcalibur that has two Nightmares.
 
I wish people would stop complaining about such minor issues, it comes off as really entitled. Inferno is a boss character that is relevant to the story and you have access to him.
If his inclusion seems 'lazy' as it took little resources, then it cannot also be a waste of resources as he never consumed the resources a full character would.
Just look at the love that went into the updates for all the returning characters each complete with their special gimmick. Geralt seems just perfect and I look forward to another guest equally well done.
As far as roster size goes it's not small at all, depends on what you are comparing it to, for instance SC II had 24 base characters.
We probably have a few more incoming via DLC so it will be up there, besides which I think there is an upper limit for a roster. Learning 40 characters for a tournament is a lot more work than learning 30.
 
WindupSkeleton said:
Price we don't know but she'll be available as standalone DLC on release date. She's day one DLC, which is half the controversy.
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I thought that the "bonus" for precommanding deluxe edition was the possibility to have her day one, involving (maybe) that she may be available as standalone DLC only later.
I misunderstood, she has been confirmed as day-one standalone DLC?
 
Haruchai said:
I wish people would stop complaining about such minor issues, it comes off as really entitled. Inferno is a boss character that is relevant to the story and you have access to him.
If his inclusion seems 'lazy' as it took little resources, then it cannot also be a waste of resources as he never consumed the resources a full character would.
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That is why he should be a mimic, not a clone.

I dont care how entitled i come off. If i'm paying money for this i will complain if i dont like whatever decision the developers make that doesnt seem to make sense. They are going to charge full price for this game and presumably half that for each season pass. This isnt about different opinions on which direction the developers go and who they cater too. This is just about a bad decision accross the board, to pretty much everybody. A mimic is infinitely more useful than a clone. Period.
 
AMillionHP said:
That is why he should be a mimic, not a clone.

I dont care how entitled i come off. If i'm paying money for this i will complain if i dont like whatever decision the developers make that doesnt seem to make sense. They are going to charge full price for this game and presumably half that for each season pass. This isnt about different opinions on which direction the developers go and who they cater too. This is just about a bad decision accross the board, to pretty much everybody. A mimic is infinitely more useful than a clone. Period.
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You sound more pissed off about a mimic than most people were about Tira when she was revealed as DLC. Relax. They didn't cut anyone for this, it's just a bonus character that could very well not even be playable in the first place.

fjaoaoaoao said:
Maybe Hwang and Lizzie are also unlockable, but they are just slightly altered versions of other characters tehe.
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If that makes it so they don't show up on the season pass so we can get stuff like Setsuka and Hilde, I'm all up for it.
 
Runezord said:
There was 2 Nightmares in SC1 too, just saying. Also 2 Siegfrieds in Soul Edge. And 2 Zasalamels in SC3.
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To be fair, I guess everyone should remember back then that Inferno (originally Soul Edge) was once a Cervantes clone. 2 Siegfrieds? You're not counting his alternate costume that makes him look like Nightmare, right? I thought you mean something like 2 Mitsurugi's cause Hwang was once like that too back in Soul Edge/Blade.
 
AMillionHP said:
It blows my mind that your mind is blown about it. Its as if you can identify one of the major reasons people dislike SC5 without actually understanding the reason. Several mimics are annoying because they are useless. We dont appreciate the fact that work was done on character models and such for mimics when that time and effort could have been better placed on missing characters or at least unique movesets for them.

While the situation here is definitely not as bad, but it still isnt good and shouldnt happen. We dont need two "Nightmares". If they were going to have Inferno in the game at all, he should be the mimic (only one). That is at least better than a Nightmare clone.

Again, this is all particularly sour if the roster is missing several characters. Its one thing to just tell Cassandra fans to suck it up and deal with the fact that their character is not here but its a little bit different to tell them that when they get to play a Soulcalibur that has two Nightmares.
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I don't think you can read very well, because I clearly stated why I can see that *3* mimics are annoying. Also, consider resources and how they are used in a development team. You seem to see copying nightmare's moves (which have already been created and balanced for this game) over to Inferno as equal to basically creating a whole new character, bringing her moves over from previous games and having the team work to not only balance them for SC6, but also ensure that she plays and feels like Cassandra. Quite frankly, that's not how the boat is rowed. End of discussion.

PS: Artists are not generally also coders. The art team is separate. If the team has the time and budget left over, and the art team is done creating assets, having them create additional assets while the rest of the game is being worked on by the coders would cost jack shit.

JohnMcKee said:
Re-used assets in a better way.

If they can manage to "copy and edit" a style, they can copy and edit other things, from previous games for example: instead of a Nightmare clone, they should have made Inferno a mimic, as it requires as much (or even less) work to code him as a random character rather than modifying Nightmare's style to incorporate variations of moves.
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You say that like it's really easy to do. You have to keep in mind, Soul Calibur 6 plays completely different from the last gen games. The tempo of the game has changed - and as such, entire movesets needed to be reworked from the ground up. Just because we're seeing recycled animations doesn't mean that we are seeing recycled frames, hit properties, etc. If it was so easy, Hilde, Hwang, Setsuka and literally anyone else would be in the game, no problem. The smaller-than-usual roster in itself is indicative of the time and care spent making sure each character felt right.

Like, what y'all are saying is "Wow, instead of doing the easiest thing possible with their time and budgets constraints to create Inferno, I wish they did something that was completely different and thereby impossible in regards to aforementioned time and budget constraints."

I mean, I wish Project Soul had a bigger budget too.
 
NeoStrayCat said:
To be fair, I guess everyone should remember back then that Inferno (originally Soul Edge) was once a Cervantes clone. 2 Siegfrieds? You're not counting his alternate costume that makes him look like Nightmare, right? I thought you mean something like 2 Mitsurugi's cause Hwang was once like that too back in Soul Edge/Blade.
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It's been too long since I played Soul Edge, I forgot Siegfried! was an alternate costume, not another character, although like you mentioned Hwang and Mitsu fit the bill anyway.
 
Von_Blackhardt said:
You say that like it's really easy to do. You have to keep in mind, Soul Calibur 6 plays completely different from the last gen games. The tempo of the game has changed - and as such, entire movesets needed to be reworked from the ground up. Just because we're seeing recycled animations doesn't mean that we are seeing recycled frames, hit properties, etc. If it was so easy, Hilde, Hwang, Setsuka and literally anyone else would be in the game, no problem. The smaller-than-usual roster in itself is indicative of the time and care spent making sure each character felt right.

Like, what y'all are saying is "Wow, instead of doing the easiest thing possible with their time and budgets constraints to create Inferno, I wish they did something that was completely different and thereby impossible in regards to aforementioned time and budget constraints."

I mean, I wish Project Soul had a bigger budget too.
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Choosing a mimic is actually simply a random selection of available (aka already reworked) styles. Allowing for that random selection is easier to implement than reworking some moves of a style. We go from "use what's already there" to "let's create new animations, frames, properties, etc." Creation of a mimic is less time and budget consuming than altering a moveset.

As you said, some characters' styles are really unique and would need a lot of rework to be done (since "SCIV to SCV" was full of bugs, it must be the same between SCV and SCVI) and would be harder to implement, a mimic is easier to put in place than a new moveset. So no, the easiest is not to create a clone with an altered moveset, but to allow the random selection of any style without needing any rework.
 
ThalionPIR said:
I thought that the "bonus" for precommanding deluxe edition was the possibility to have her day one, involving (maybe) that she may be available as standalone DLC only later.
I misunderstood, she has been confirmed as day-one standalone DLC?
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Yes that was either a miscommunication on their part, or they backpedalled WAY hard, though I'm a believer of the former as the tweet just seemed mis-worded and could be read either way.

Tira is downloadable day one, the end. Simple as that. :)

I also think it's safe to assume all the DLC will be available standalone as SPs are usually a bulk purchase but at a lower price than buying everything separately, which will total up to a higher cost for all parts. Also from a business end it makes more sense, not every consumer wants to buy SPs but they may want 3/4s of it, so allowing them to buy that way means more sales.
 
JohnMcKee said:
Choosing a mimic is actually simply a random selection of available (aka already reworked) styles. Allowing for that random selection is easier to implement than reworking some moves of a style. We go from "use what's already there" to "let's create new animations, frames, properties, etc." Creation of a mimic is less time and budget consuming than altering a moveset.

As you said, some characters' styles are really unique and would need a lot of rework to be done (since "SCIV to SCV" was full of bugs, it must be the same between SCV and SCVI) and would be harder to implement, a mimic is easier to put in place than a new moveset. So no, the easiest is not to create a clone with an altered moveset, but to allow the random selection of any style without needing any rework.
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I don't think it would be easier, but we can agree to disagree there, because neither you or I have the knowledge to carry that conversation forward in a meaningful way

Though, I'm curious as to why you think the entity responsible for Nightmare's existence would be doing Sophitia's or Kilik's moves at random. I'm all for a singular mimic being in the game, but I don't think it makes sense for it to be Inferno.
 
JohnMcKee said:
Choosing a mimic is actually simply a random selection of available (aka already reworked) styles. Allowing for that random selection is easier to implement than reworking some moves of a style. We go from "use what's already there" to "let's create new animations, frames, properties, etc." Creation of a mimic is less time and budget consuming than altering a moveset.

As you said, some characters' styles are really unique and would need a lot of rework to be done (since "SCIV to SCV" was full of bugs, it must be the same between SCV and SCVI) and would be harder to implement, a mimic is easier to put in place than a new moveset. So no, the easiest is not to create a clone with an altered moveset, but to allow the random selection of any style without needing any rework.
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Except that they didn't put resources into making a clone playable. They put resources into making a boss use Nightmare style, which makes sense because Inferno/Soul Edge created Nightmare. That's the main point, then they just flicked the switch to make him playable.

Making him a mimic in the first place wouldn't make sense lorewise for a final boss. Not to mention there's no Soul Edge variations for any other character and it wouldn't make sense for Inferno to wield normal weapons. From a gameplay/balance standpoint we also don't know how much effort it would be because of all the character's gimmicks, soul charges and RE outcomes. It's just not that simple anymore.
 
I'm a little confused with this 'standalone' Tira stuff. Does that mean she's NOT part of the 3 DLC characters + 1 Bonus character for getting the Season Pass? I just always assumed she was one of them and reduced my DLC character expectations from 4 to 3.
 
Crimzin said:
All of the issues with SCVI seem to be budget related which is expected after SCV. The small roster and small amount of stages show this.
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That's the thing, with characters, stages and DLCs the game's budget is always a good and valid excuse, but not for the lack of a mimic. Mimics are basically almost free when it comes to budget. Every CaS character you can create by default supports every combat style in the game, so turning CaS into a mimic should take like 1 line of code. I bet Inferno model is not much different. There is no budget excuse here, they just arbitrary chosen not to add even a single mimic option at all even though it would have cost them basically nothing to do so.
SC6 doesn't really look like the most content-packed SC game to date to me any more...
 
I don’t mind inferno being a stronger version of nightmare. I couldn’t take him seriously in SC2 with some of the weapon styles anyway. Kappa
 
Klimat said:
That's the thing, with characters, stages and DLCs the game's budget is always a good and valid excuse, but not for the lack of a mimic. Mimics are basically almost free when it comes to budget. Every CaS character you can create by default supports every combat style in the game, so turning CaS into a mimic should take like 1 line of code. I bet Inferno model is not much different. There is no budget excuse here, they just arbitrary chose not to add even a single mimic optons at all even though it would have cost them basically nothing to do so.
SC6 doesn't really look like the most content-packed SC game to date to me any more...
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I already said why I think they decided not to make Inferno a mimic.
 
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