Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Hope the game did well enough for that season 2...

Its apparently considered a success. Hopefully they start giving us the stuff to compensate for the lacking parts of this game.
Traditional single player modes (survival)
Rest of the cast
Stages (Lots of them)

I doubt they'd do it but I'd kill for a tag team mode with online in it.
I'm obscenely excited for Cassandra to come out so I can worship the idea of Hwang's return.
If they ditched us and left Season 2 abandoned... I'd honestly be pretty upset. Seething.
 
It's kinda like either that or nothing at all. We all know SCVI had a very limited budget & amount of time. Maybe if they see us all support it, they might provide new CaS parts in the future. I personally don't mind paying for the stuff we already got in SCV and SCIV. If you ask me, i'd rather pay and get it than not get it at all, or get it all at once with the game for free and not get any DLC support at all afterwards. Also, just because it's from previous games, doesn't mean it should handed to you all for free. That's like saying i wanna be able to play all SC games by purchasing SCVI alone and not pay an extra cent. That's not how it works. We're all extremely lucky that Okubo is here. He's still trying his best even though it's crystal clear namco wants to end this franchise. But none of you will realize than until the series is actually dead.
 
SoulCalibur VI is the first game to cut things from creation so heavily, though, and I don't really understand why even, aside from just because they could sell the stuff to us later. There were some things lost in translation from SoulCalibur III to SoulCalibur IV, sure, but that made sense, because they made the jump to full HD and a generational leap in graphics. SoulCalibur IV through now, though, are all styled after the same graphics using basically the same models, so there's been a lot of carryover. But more or less, SoulCalibur VI did to creation mode what SoulCalibur V did to the main roster, cutting parts like they cut characters.

Particularly notable are the custom parts that don't even have real polish or care given to them, like the Bridal/Tuxedo stuff. If they really were touching up the things for 4K spec graphics or something, it would be a different matter, and somewhat justifiable, but as it is... not so much. It makes sense to not bring back costumes from previous games (even though they bring them back anyway as DLC, starting with SoulCalibur V, still, that's a different matter), but the generic parts don't have the same equivalency. It really can't be defended in its current state. The new parts are nice, the stuff from Lost Swords is... alright, I guess, but the parts from SoulCalibur V have no reason to be cut, not when they copy-and-pasted the system wholesale, the parts should come with.
 
SoulCalibur VI is the first game to cut things from creation so heavily, though, and I don't really understand why even, aside from just because they could sell the stuff to us later. There were some things lost in translation from SoulCalibur III to SoulCalibur IV, sure, but that made sense, because they made the jump to full HD and a generational leap in graphics. SoulCalibur IV through now, though, are all styled after the same graphics using basically the same models, so there's been a lot of carryover. But more or less, SoulCalibur VI did to creation mode what SoulCalibur V did to the main roster, cutting parts like they cut characters.

Particularly notable are the custom parts that don't even have real polish or care given to them, like the Bridal/Tuxedo stuff. If they really were touching up the things for 4K spec graphics or something, it would be a different matter, and somewhat justifiable, but as it is... not so much. It makes sense to not bring back costumes from previous games (even though they bring them back anyway as DLC, starting with SoulCalibur V, still, that's a different matter), but the generic parts don't have the same equivalency. It really can't be defended in its current state. The new parts are nice, the stuff from Lost Swords is... alright, I guess, but the parts from SoulCalibur V have no reason to be cut, not when they copy-and-pasted the system wholesale, the parts should come with.
I think it has to do something with different engine. I'm no 3d expert but if I understand it correctly it does require some tinkering to transfer items between those engines. Personally I don't think it's much of work since mesh and textures should still be usable without any hiccups but considering budget and time restraints it may as well be one of the reasons (aside from low cost DLC content which can be sold full price of course)
 
Don't diss the cats! Virtua Fighter 5 has a lot of more goofy equipment parts. Be thankful there's no ultra shiny and fluorescent lights in SCVI.

There are several 3D fighters on Switch which are both 60fps and UE4:
  • Dragon Ball FighterZ
  • Mortal Kombat 11

MK11 on PS4 and Xbox is locked on 60fps. On Switch the game reaches 60fps but dips below that on some occasions. Characters look a bit fuzzy. Environments look low-res, with muddy textures and extremely basic lighting effects. That's the trade they had to make to try to make the game looks good on Switch.


Anybody here makes videos illustrating the changes for each patch?

 
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I wouldnt be so angry at them recycling old CAS parts if they were recycling the good ones that we actually want. But why are we being given so many jokey/ugly items that can rarely be used with other things or items that are part of a set, but not the other items in the set (eg Bon-Soeng undergarments but not the other items in Mi-na’s sc4 outfit??)

If they could somehow view what items were most used in CAS versus which ones are least used I can guarantee a large chunk of those rare/never used items will be from these dlcs. Because they suck ass.

Idk why they don’t just open some sort of poll and ask us specifically which cas parts from old games we would like, since they seem so set on giving us old ones.
 
the thing that irks me most about the CAS parts is that it's too damn restrictive. you try to mix and match parts, and most of the time there's some conflict with another part.

in addition, a lot of the parts have clipping issues which interfere with certain weapon types. which, if that bothers you, is another form of restriction to your creative ideas.

For example, I've been trying to create a "noble/aristocratic" female CAS with Ivy's fighting style. But with the way Ivy's sword is held so low and close to the body, that creates clipping issues with a lot of the dresses that "stick out" too much. I was excited for 2B cuz of her Black dress, but that clips with Ivy's sword style. Then, it was Amy's dress, which would otherwise be perfect for me, but that too clips.
 
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would you really be immersed by soulcalibur anyway? i dont think it’s supposed to be immersive

for me, it breaks "immersion" when you are trying to create a realistic CAS who would fit in, as best as possible, with the rest of the main roster. only to suffer from floaty clothing parts and clipping issues and the like.
 
for me, it breaks "immersion" when you are trying to create a realistic CAS who would fit in, as best as possible, with the rest of the main roster. only to suffer from floaty clothing parts and clipping issues and the like.
i understand lol, we see immersion as different things i guess
 
I mean, they could make ten capes for every body type in the game, and then more variations for different chest and shoulder equipment.

Or they could make one floaty cape.

(insert tired excuse about small budget here)
 
I've seen so much worst in T7 when it comes to customization that it didn't even shock me what CaS 2 contains, i'm just starting to understand that there are some "designers" at Bamco that are really too much into this (i guess?), i actually wonder if those designers played the first games and what mean those franchises for them (if it even means something for them? Sorry this may seem harsh but seriously some stuffs are too weird imo lol), but i'm glad to see many of you guys not into over the top silly stuffs like this, i'm all with you on this.

But hey outside of that, this is still a super great update, new moves for many characters, the 140 hitbox fixes and new defaults colors really brought new fresh and super welcome air to the game. And even tho i'm not that much into those animal head and cie still some CaS pieces looks still pretty interesting, from what i've seen at least. (didn't go to create yet since CaS2)
 
idk how you could call manipulating fans to pay for dlc that contains 90% old items that were base game in the last two instalments going back up to 10 years ago anything other than anti-consumer tbh
But in what remote way did someone "manipulate" you into buying the DLC? They told you in very abstract, vague terms what you were going to get, but did tell you exactly how much content there would be, and you chose to buy on those terms. As far as I am concerned, that is 100% on you. You entered into a contract for an amount of content, without specifications as to its style or whether it would be to your taste, and then Namco delivered not just that amount of content to you, but also additional bonuses they never mentioned when initially selling the season pass (something that most of those complaining about the offerings consistently fail to mention). If the exact nature and quality of the items was something that was that important to you to be worth your twenty bucks, there was absolutely nothing preventing you from just waiting to see what the packs would include and then deciding to buy or not at that point.

It's not like they pulled a bait and switch on you, promising one selection of pieces and then saying "Oh sorry, we couldn't do that, here's this instead." That would certainly be manipulative (actually, it would be fraudulent), but what happened here is that you (like almost all of us here, I am sure) chose to take a leap before you looked and now you've got some buyer's remorse. But no one in that chain of transactions was deceptive or misleading--you got what you were promised as a consumer/contractual matter--it just wasn't as satisfying as you would have hoped. Nor were there any kind of pressure sale tactics here: the same deals that were available to you day one on all of the relevant marketplaces are still available to you today. So I'm still not seeing the "manipulation". They never promised you brand new armor sets that had never appeared in the franchise before: they promised you an amount of content only (that they not only have met, but indeed then surpassed).

And honestly, why would new pieces be so much more desirable anyway? Actually, if anything, returning pieces have one advantage over new items in that those players who wish to recreate old designs can do so a bit more easily. Nor, for that matter, is all the content old--it's a mix of old ad new. Which plenty of their consumers are actually plenty satisfied with, for the pricepoint. Delivering a product that less than 100% of the buyers are totally satisfied with is not "anti-consumer", it's just the nature of reality, particularly with this sort of product, where the value of what is delivered is quasi-subjective, based on taste.

I think it has to do something with different engine. I'm no 3d expert but if I understand it correctly it does require some tinkering to transfer items between those engines. Personally I don't think it's much of work since mesh and textures should still be usable without any hiccups but considering budget and time restraints it may as well be one of the reasons (aside from low cost DLC content which can be sold full price of course)
Absolutely correct--with respect to Dante, we've been down this road on this very thread more than once before. It is by no means a matter of simply cutting and pasting files across versions. Every item added, legacy or novel, requires man hours. It may require a little less in the case of legacy items from more recent games, but the amount of cost in man hours needed to port them is nowhere near zero--especially when the CaS fans expect those items to work perfectly within a complex modeler and front-end editor, and you need look no further than this very page of this very thread to see examples of people expressing such expectations.

In general, I think game industry consumers in general, and fans of this franchise in particular, maybe, do not understand what this process looks like from the developers end, or appreciate what a delicate balancing act it is financially. The cost of making a game has gone up astronomically over the last twenty-five years, but for that same period of time, the cost per unit sold has remained more or less frozen in almost all markets. The only reason developers and publishers have been able to compensate for this and stay afloat is that at the same time, the market-size has increased, so you can sell more units (though of course there is also a lot more competition for those consumer dollars among a larger number of companies). However, in recent years, the popularity of fighters has declined as a proportional matter, meaning that cost-benefit analysis of developing these games has changed, as the companies who develop these sorts of games can't count on the number of sales to always offset the cost of development to keep the profit margin where they would like it. Especially in a company like Namco, where multiple internal studio and teams are competing for a budget, a lot of content, as others have noted above in this thread, just would never be greenlit, except as DLC.
 
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I said they manipulated us into buying dlc that was old content from past games, not that they manipulated us into buying dlc full stop. The manipulation lies in the lack of communication that PS has with its customers, probably due to the fact that they predicted we would be outraged if we knew they would be asking us to pay for crappy, low quality, old cas items with barely (if at all) improved textures that we dont even want. Also, I’m an adult, I have the freedom to choose what I buy with my money. I also have the freedom to discuss my issues with other people if what I buy is unsatisfactory. Neither of those things warrant scrutiny.


I would kinda like to see a poll done on whether the users of 8wayrun are content with the CAS pack we just received, it would be nice to see whether ‘plenty of fans’ are actually satisfied with it.
 
I said they manipulated us into buying dlc that was old content from past games, not that they manipulated us into buying dlc full stop.
I don't see how you've made out even a remotely legitimate argument for how you were "manipulated" into buying anything, old content or no. You entered into a contractual relationship where they promised only a certain amount of items. At no point that I can recall did they ever promise any of us that the items would be new (and I still don't understand why you consider old items as inferior value, for that matter). You decided to purchase under those terms, knowing that the items could be anything. Again, that's on you. No one manipulated you to make that choice instead of waiting to see what the content would look like, if it was so important to you to make that purchase worthwhile--which you easily could have done. Now you have buyer's remorse. Which is understandable, if the items aren't to your taste, but no one put a gun to your head and made you take that gamble. You acted impulsively--no one "manipulated" you.

The manipulation lies in the lack of communication that PS has with its customers, probably due to the fact that they predicted we would be outraged if we knew they would be asking us to pay for crappy, low quality, old cas items with barely (if at all) improved textures that we dont even want.
Sorry, but I just don't buy into your theory of Okubo and a nefarious collection of executives at Namco planning all along to sell you content they know you wouldn't like. They didn't "communicate" what the content if the packs would look like a year and half ago when the DLC first went on pre-order sale because they almost certainly did not know what would be in them. Also, like almost all DLC, no one promised you'd have communication on what was upcoming at any point, beyond what was in the marketplace description, which you based your choice to purchase upon nevertheless.

The only reason they should have been expecting outrage is because, frankly, those invested in games as their primary form of entertainment have become perhaps the most self-entitled group of consumers in history, and will pretty much always find something to bitch about. Ironically this started because publishers were promoting a bevy of super bullshit sales and marketing tactics, without foresight of the fact that their consumers were tech- and social media-savvy people who could easily aggregate their disgust with these practices and express their collective power to respond to them, and that they were creating an unstoppable beast. Now we've flipped the script--game consumers don't just complain about legitimate grievances in the way games are developed and distributed, they also increasingly like to claim they've been cheated any time they are dissatisfied with what they got, even though being unhappy with the final product and being cheated are two very much different things. And I'm sorry, I don't say this just to be mean or contrarian, but in my view your 'outrage' here is a pretty archetypal example of this trend.

Also, I’m an adult, I have the freedom to choose what I buy with my money.
Which is exactly what you did and exactly why I think your claim of being "manipulated" is super hyperbolic. Now, if you said "I don't think this CaS content was worth what I paid--if I'd known what I know now, I would not have bought it.", that would be a completely understandable position. But you did indeed buy it before knowing exactly what you'd get, and that was your call--your gamble, which you were free to take or not.

I also have the freedom to discuss my issues with other people if what I buy is unsatisfactory. Neither of those things warrant scrutiny.
Of course you have that freedom, just as the rest of us here have the right to express our own opinions on the transaction and whether it was fair and reasonable with regard to the conduct of the seller. You're the one who entered into an ongoing discussion about that topic--whether you like it or not, your claims of being mistreated by Namco are very much fair game for scrutiny and criticism if you make such an assertion (especially since most of us are in the exact same boat as you and may have different opinions about the fairness factor), just as you criticized a position yourself when you entered the discussion. Freedom of expression is not a one-way street.

I would kinda like to see a poll done on whether the users of 8wayrun are content with the CAS pack we just received, it would be nice to see whether ‘plenty of fans’ are actually satisfied with it.
By all means--it's as simple as opening a thread. But bear in mind that if you added up all of the people who have ever posted on 8WR over the years, you still wouldn't have one fourth of one percent of the people who bought the most recent game, so. And in reality you're not going to get more than three dozen people voting on that pols with the current traffic here. So as a measure of how many people are satisfied with the product overall, it's about four powers of ten lower than the number of people you would need for statistical reliability. Your methodology would also introduce two biases: 1) we here at this forum are not the usual consumer, but rather a super-engaged and invested sub-portion of the consumer base with heightened expectations, and 2) there is a well known axiom in market research that people are much more willing to complain about a product they found lacking than to make a point of noting that they found a product satisfying.

Lastly, and by far most importantly, any such results to polling do not impact upon the question of whether you were manipulated. Even if we had results from a professional statistical analysis that showed that 95% of people were dissatisfied with what they got in the CaS packs and we had a five-sigma level of confidence in those figures, it still wouldn't change the fact that you got exactly what you bargained for (and then plenty of extra content to boot) when you bought the season pass. You contracted for X amount of items. You got X+ amount of items. You simply entered into an arrangement that was too vague, if the exact form of those items was so important to you. But that's a failure on your part to exercise due caution as a consumer, if your needs were so specific. It's not a failure or manipulation on Namco's part as the seller. Nor anyone else's.
@Rusted Blade
I kinda imagine that team soul right now consists of two underplayed Japanese employees where one is programmer and second one may have some graphic design/social plus Okubo as a team leader

Yeah, and I know you're exaggerating slightly for humour, but I doubt it's a huge exaggeration. I'd be surprised if the team is much larger than a dozen people a this point, marketing and management staff included, and most of them would be focused on the characters (announced and unannounced). Maybe more if they are already deep into work on season two. That's speculation, of course, but a reasonable guestimate based upon what we know about the size of the internal Namco team for this game at the height of production and the rate at which content has dropped since.
 
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