Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

[LisaK]

Elfs

Scheherazade CaS konfirmed

 

[DanteSC3]

Crazy wild theory time:

What if Wolfkrone was part of another realm, possibly connected to the one in Chronicles of the Sword, and somehow the swords have inter dimensional properties that connect the SC Earth through Astral Chaos and called forth that entire realm, complete with the native elf race?

I don't think we need that extra level of complexity. Mayyyybe if one of the nations in Chronicles of the Sword was already Wolfkrone, like people look at that Algol chapter in the Weapon Master Mode for SoulCalibur II, but I really would be shocked if we ever got any more things from that continuityverse.

Scheherazade

Do not want.

 

[LisaK]

Do not want.

Dynasty leaked her new design

Spoiler

[1]

 

[kyrt]

Setsuka is obviously going to be revealed to be the lesbian barbarian.

 

[Nyte]

I wouldn't classify myself as a "target", no. Every time you go out of your way to attack me, you get ridiculed for it by the folks who actually read my posts instead of just riding the hate train just because my opinions don't line up perfectly. But you're right, it's all fair to "sling shit" at each other, but it's preferable and more enjoyable when we're all doing it while having a laugh, not acting with actual malice as seems to be the case with you when you get riled up about things. And we are, like it or not, going to have at least shades of SoulCalibur V again. SoulCalibur VI already practically confirmed this. That is, of course, unless the next game is taken in a completely different direction, like an actual reboot, instead of this soft "reboot" that isn't really a reboot at all.


He would be born off-screen, since we've gotten to 1590. We saw Cassandra mulling over Pyrrha's name, who was born first, in 1588, but Patroklos was born the next year in 1589. Maybe the babies will make a small cameo in an upcoming Soul Chronicle?

"Ridiculed" by people I don't give a shit about? Mind = blown.

 

[Nyte]

And I am sick and tired of you trying to pretend about SCVI not being a reboot, all over one, and I mean ONE vague comment that Okubo made in an interview. Why don't you take a look at the actual facts:

• Okubo said the entire game was a reboot soon after the reveal.
• There are multiple changes in the timeline, many of them small (which should be enough), but look at the two whoppers below.
• Zasalamel receives a vision, likely from the OT, of the glorious future that awaits, and thus NEVER becomes a death seeker. This alters the course the story.
• Cassandra meets the Original Timeline counterpart of herself, who then tells her the information needed to save Sophitia and prevent the SCV timeline from happening. You're gonna tell me this happened originally?!

Oh, here's something to think about: If the SCV era was so worth keeping like you say, then why did they abandon it? Why did they immediately revert back to the original era the moment they had the chance? If SCV was a status quo worth having, they would've stuck to it. But they didn't, because that would be fucking stupid. They knew the best way would be to abandon course and go back to the series everyone knew, and everyone (barring outliers like you) were relieved it happened. Don't pretend that you're not biased and you probably have a warped view of this, because all the times you praise SCV show that what I'm saying is correct. Everyone knows it's a reboot, and at this point, I think you're the ONLY one trying to say otherwise.

I'm sick of dealing with you.

 

[Foot]

what a pointless thing to be upset about once again.

 

[kyrt]

For the record I do believe there may have been a chance that they were considering at one point to add a female barbarian character...very well could have been the new samurai showdown character since she had a unique weapon and probably would have fit in the game. Perhaps there were discussions with SNK specifically about it to try and promote the new character and the new game and somewhere along the way they decided to go with Haohmaru. I think the similarities between the speculated character and Dagger are simply too coincidental but perhaps they were.

I do not believe SCVI is a reboot as it is not really backing away from V but using V to enhance the story going forward. We know what happens in the future story wise and now with a wild card in the game things could potentially change. It's obvious that this is a split timeline as is evident by Astral Cass showing up. I also think this means all of the characters in SCV are perfectly legitimate with maybe a few exceptions since they won't (potentially) end up the same way they did before. The whole reveal with Amy is good evidence that they are definitely bringing back those characters to the story a little at a time but they may not all be in the same place.

Now that is not to say that SCVI is not a return to a time in the series that most people liked better nor does this mean that everything will continue the way it went before. Even if it does though more information and the world is getting fleshed out as well at least in the story mode.

As for the Wolfkrone cameo I think it could be any number of characters and although Le Bello is a likely contender I think there is a chance that it could also be a younger Zwei, Ein, Gerhilde, or even Cassandra (due to the Soul Calibur Dojo comic and the interactions in Broken Destiny).

 

[DanteSC3]

And I am sick and tired of you trying to pretend about SCVI not being a reboot, all over one, and I mean ONE vague comment that Okubo made in an interview.

I'm not pretending. I fully believe in what I say, else I wouldn't say it. I've answered all of what you're about to say before, in various places, but I'll do it again, in a vain hope that you'll actually read what I have to say and not just brush it off as you're apt to do. The "sick and tired" aspect, I feel, is you taking my beliefs way too personally, and I really think it's not healthy to have such a negative obsession over them. If you don't agree, you don't agree, and that's fine, I'm fine with it, you should be fine with it too, but for unknown reasons you're not.

The "vague comment" was a second-guessing of the word reboot, and, if you'll notice, they stopped using the term after that interview as well. And it's not "all" over that one comment, it's just a piece of the whole puzzle.

Why don't you take a look at the actual facts:

Okay.

Okubo said the entire game was a reboot soon after the reveal.

To be more precise, he said that the idea of the game was "reboot", as he wanted the series to return to its roots in order to rebuild, which even I am in agreement is something that needed to happen for the series to get back to its previous successes. It seems like it's well on its way to doing that, too, for which I, of course, am quite happy about. As any long-term fan of the series should be.

But, again, while that was the word he used to describe it, it was meant to frame it in a general light, that more or less, basically, we are doing a "reboot" in that we are retreading the previous ground. Then, he later said that "reboot" wasn't the right word to use, and then since that, stopped using the term to describe the series. I wish he would have taken the correction further and been more detailed, but he didn't, so it is what it is, and here we are. It is more than clear to me, though, that the proper term would be "retelling", since it is, for the most part, retreading the same history, but with characters who were introduced later in the series (which isn't retcon, because they were given written stories that are being seen in-game for the first time). But I'm bleeding into your next bullet point, so...

There are multiple changes in the timeline, many of them small (which should be enough), but look at the two whoppers below.

The smaller changes, so excluding the two whoppers, are, in almost if not every case, gameplay or mechanics related, which is used to differentiate movesets to make the characters more unique, one of the core values of SoulCalibur VI. Like Yoshimitsu having his second sword (that only Yoshimitsu the Second got originally), Nightmare holding the sword with one hand, that sort of thing. It's quite simply nitpicking to say that these are real changes.

There is and always was some ambiguity in what was or wasn't canon in every game from SoulBlade all the way through even SoulCalibur V, though to a far lesser degree, but certainly also including SoulCalibur IV, due to the story structure being focused on individual character fantasy what-if pockets instead of one solid canon narrative as is now the case. So some minor liberties had to be taken to make it all work, and I commend them for being able to produce such a product, as a lorehound of this series. I love how the stories are presented and how everything is canon in SoulCalibur VI, which makes every character important to the whole. But anyway, on to the two whoppers:

Zasalamel receives a vision, likely from the OT, of the glorious future that awaits, and thus NEVER becomes a death seeker. This alters the course the story.

Your phrase, "likely from the OT", is just as much an unknown as any other distinct possibility. If it was, in fact, from the original timeline, which I don't even believe exists as a concept, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that (as has been made abundantly clear by our history), then that would be solid proof of this being a reboot. However, among the possibilities is also that this did originally occur, but we weren't privy to it. The whole "hidden truths" line of the narrative of SoulCalibur VI, most pointedly the Aval Organization, Azwel, and Grøh, also very much can and very arguably does apply to gaps in knowledge of previous character stories.

Zasalamel suffers from an unfortunate case of the Setsuka where, after his initial appearance in SoulCalibur IV, he really doesn't do a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. He is an immortal time lord, that is and always has been his thing. He acts in secret, however, and he has no reason to divulge the details of his plans to anyone, so he keeps his motivations close to his chest as everything else, I'd believe. We also have to keep in mind that the current story only goes up to the beginning of SoulCalibur II. Which means we still have the events of SoulCalibur II that will take place before Zasalamel springs to action.

So, in the single timeline model, the one I'm following, I don't find it especially unreasonable that Zasalamel can find a way to send messages to the past (or even to the future), and he would likely use himself as a test subject, because see again: secrecy. It is possible that he did send this message to himself, and yet something about the next conflict involving the swords changes his mind, or perhaps even causes him to doubt himself, since history literally repeats itself and Siegfried falls again and must be defeated, and then Raphael gets malfested, so he sees it as pointless, and goes back to wanting to die. Hey, it's even possible that he's waffled over dying or living his entire existence, and yet hasn't found a way to actually die, or has many failed attempts.

For the sake of argument, too, his experiment fails, obviously, and we have blurred lines on whether Abyss or Night Terror is really canon to the events of SoulCalibur III, which is something I look forward to getting a resolution for in SoulCalibur VII. It could be his wavering faith between wanting to live, wanting to die, that hampers his convictions, and that's why he goes on to live in SoulCalibur IV regardless of which events ended up being canon. But yeah, the long and short of the Zasalamel case is that we just simply don't have enough concrete evidence to know, one way or the other. It's possible it signifies a divergence, but it could just be a coy reference to the retelling of the past, as a point of self-mockery, all the same. Time will tell.

Cassandra meets the Original Timeline counterpart of herself, who then tells her the information needed to save Sophitia and prevent the SCV timeline from happening. You're gonna tell me this happened originally?!

Yes, absolutely, it's possible. As with the case of Zasalamel, this very well could be a self-defeating time loop in the same timeline. It is said that Cassandra keeps this information to herself, acting in secrecy, much like Zasalamel, in SoulCalibur VI itself. Meaning it is within the realm of possibility that she knew, knows, always has known, but always fails, due to an unknown machination of fate, to save Sophitia from her death. Besides that, Sophitia's death is far from the catalyst that allows SoulCalibur V to happen. It's one piece of the whole, but it's not the entire thing. But more on that in a bit.

The Cassandra of the future is very much a worn-out and beaten down version of herself, perhaps racked with the frustration of so many failures. A bit dark, sure, as has been noted by others, I believe Rusted Blade, in the past, but it's not anything that hasn't been done before. If you're aware of Steins;Gate, that's where I'm coming from with regards to this. There is a very similar thing that occurs there that demonstrates the futility of fighting fate, even when you have the seemingly infinite power that is time travel and manipulation. Zasalamel is a master of time, while Cassandra just gets swept up in a current of Astral Chaos and somehow (again, we don't know, unfortunately, the specifics), manages to literally travel back in time like Edge Master was able to send Patroklos back in time to correct his mistakes. Hopefully we will find out more eventually.

But back to Sophitia dying and SoulCalibur V. Sophitia succumbing to Soul Edge, more than her dying, is more to blame than anything else. She loses at that point, even if she lives, because Tira has already abducted Pyrrha by then (end of SoulCalibur III), and Patroklos ends up being adopted by Setsuka, which might very well could still happen even if Sophitia lived, if her taint was so severe, like Raphael, where it corrupted her world views and life. Her dying just cements that she can't be redeemed, but it may be fate for her to die, no matter how no one wants it to be. Again, we shall see.

Oh, here's something to think about: If the SCV era was so worth keeping like you say, then why did they abandon it? Why did they immediately revert back to the original era the moment they had the chance? If SCV was a status quo worth having, they would've stuck to it. But they didn't, because that would be fucking stupid. They knew the best way would be to abandon course and go back to the series everyone knew, and everyone (barring outliers like you) were relieved it happened.

Okubo did indeed realize that the aftermath of SoulCalibur V was nothing short of a trainwreck, and there honestly wasn't much that could be done to save it, aside from rereleasing SoulCalibur V: Complete Edition, but after so long, it would be practically PR suicide to deliver that, considering the hate that has been garnered for SoulCalibur V, and the argument that is that SoulCalibur V is solely responsible for the downturn of the series (another point on which we disagree, as it was already failing with SoulCalibur IV, in my opinion, but I digress). There simply was no other option, so Okubo's vision to save the series was "reboot", to get us, quite literally, to the golden era of the series, which was SoulCalibur I-II.

But, here again, saving the notion that we are on a new timeline, we are destined/fated to return to where we once were. SoulCalibur VI itself foreshadows several elements of SoulCalibur V, particularly around Raphael and Amy, and perhaps, indirectly, Grøh, but definitely is using Azwel as a plot device to explain the previous unknowns. It is Azwel who provided the ability of Raphael to survive his encounter with Soul Edge. It is Azwel who put the curse on Amy with the crystal ball which will lead her to become Viola. It is Azwel who pushes Grøh so far as to hate him, potentially putting him as an ally against him, teaming up with Raphael and Amy, who will (understandably) come to hate him during the next sequence of events.

Don't pretend that you're not biased and you probably have a warped view of this, because all the times you praise SCV show that what I'm saying is correct. Everyone knows it's a reboot, and at this point, I think you're the ONLY one trying to say otherwise.

Oh, sure, I'm as biased as I'm sure everyone else is, yourself included. Every human is. We all have our own reasons to believe whatever it is to believe what we do, and I've chosen my path, as has everyone else. My view isn't "warped" just because it doesn't align with your own. I praise the good parts of SoulCalibur V, just as I also admonish the bad parts of SoulCalibur V. The same is true of SoulCalibur VI or any other game in the series, or anything else that I do/experience in my life. "Everyone knows it's a reboot" is projection to the nth degree, and is simply nonsensical to believe that it is a true statement. I am not the only one, even on this small corner of the internet, who believes that it is not.

The reality, if anything, is that the vast majority simply do not care. There are people who play the game from all walks of life, for a host of different reasons. It is very much a minority of the players at large who even begin to care about the story as much as I do, which is evidenced by the many "new" story elements not actually being new, that people say are new, simply because it is the first time they are presented in-game actively and seriously canon. This is a fighting game, of course, so the majority will be here for the fighting, the moves, the mechanics, and everything else inbetween. The folks who care about the story are people such as myself who are also huge fans of role-playing games, and enjoy the world-building and characterization elements behind the fighters they use in these games.

I'm sick of dealing with you.

Which is, quite honestly, your right. The block button exists. You're free to ignore my posts. I'm not going to do it to you, however, because I harbor you no ill will. I understand that we likely will never truly see eye-to-eye on this, but I respectfully agree to disagree, and will defend my views if they are challenged. That's not me going after you, it's just anyone or any situation that calls for it.


tl;dr for Nyte: This is likely the last time that I will be engaging you with such depth, unless you change your behavior. I understand that this post is quite long, and may be quite the bother to read, which is why I am including this tl;dr as a courtesy. You are free to believe what you will want to believe, as is everyone else who visits these boards. That doesn't mean you have to get up in arms and start throwing punches. We are very much capable of civil discussion, and that should be, I think, everyone's goal here, to enjoy each others' company.

I have addressed your points, and I would appreciate it if you read them and understood them, as it appears that you have not done so in the past, blinded by your own disdain for me due to my beliefs. I am not a SoulCalibur V zealot, I do not even begin to pretend that it doesn't have problems, but I am also willing to give SoulCalibur V a second chance, as well it deserves, this time given love and attention, and hopefully not stricken down by natural disaster. If you are convinced that there is no way that we can get along, then that's your decision to make, and I can't force you, I am only extending the olive branch.[/QUOTE]

 

[Nyte]

The main problem is that I have to see you spewing this every single time, which annoys me like you wouldn't believe. I shouldn't even have to debate this at this point. SCV doesn't deserve a second chance, and there will be scorn if they try. Okubo knows that, I imagine he does considering he freely admitted SCV nearly killed the series.

But yeah, let's end it here. I'm tired of this.

 

[DanteSC3]

You choose your battles. If you don't want to debate, don't engage. I am going to respond if you do, however. so anything you have, you bring it upon yourself. It is very known to probably all the regulars by now how everyone feels on the matter. The ironic part, though, is that you are speaking "SoulCalibur V doesn't deserve a second chance" as if it is a fact, when it is actually not. Okubo knew that it would be a fool's errand to try and pick up where SoulCalibur V left off, but his inclusion of SoulCalibur V elements in SoulCalibur VI also shows that he is not dismissing it entirely. That's all there is to it.

 

[Nyte]

The only SCV elements are:

• Critical Edge -- every fighter has a super move at this point.
• The Viola teaser -- which she can easily be rebooted in the NT.
• Lord Dumas -- that can just be an easter egg or something to the altered timeline.

And the artworks and OSTs, but that doesn't mean much of anything. Overall, I'd say this should prove the timeline is different:

Fact is, they have earned the good will of the audience with SCVI once again. I don't see them taking the risk of throwing it all away, just to give SCV another chance. Also, SCV was only made by Daishi, and clearly no one else held his views considering how different his tenure as leader was, and how they went back the moment he quit.

 

[DanteSC3]

You left out Just Guard (albeit heavily nerfed) and the newly returning metered Guard Impact that will be able to repel unblockables. The new Soul Attacks bear similarities as a hybrid of Brave Edge with SoulCalibur VI’s Soul Charge system. And then there’s Geralt and Yoshimitsu who basically have Brave Edge attacks in their arsenal.

Viola and Raphmare in our future is kind of a big deal. Pyrrha and Patroklos are going to exist, too, so there’s framework for their futures. They definitely made the point to retain Sophitia’s embedded shards so Pyrrha will undoubtedly inherit the taint. The telling point would be how the SoulCalibur II events unfold in SoulCalibur VII. Until then, it’s up in the air.

But of course the past Cassandra is never going to know about the future Cassandra. That’s literally how time travel works, and the burden is always on the time traveler to sell themselves as legitimate. There’s nothing in and of itself about their encounter that is telling. The future will be our guide, but for now it’s murky.

They can keep the good will and also continue reusing story beats up to and including SoulCalibur V. The mistake of cutting the roster and replacing them with subpar successors will definitely not be repeated, but that doesn’t also mean that the future inevitably won’t happen either. If done well, which they’ve shown they’re capable of doing, we can enter 1607 with a fresh set of eyes, complete this time, backstoried and justified this time, without losing any characters in the transfer, except maybe Sophitia, who literally dies and doesn’t have a revival option. But Pyrrha is among the least offensive replacements, from a mechanical standpoint. So that might not be a dealbreaker, in and of itself. Or if it would be, then maybe they will find a way to revive her. It’s possible.

But as I said before, let’s say this is the last Cassandra, who finally breaks the loop somehow and saves Sophitia. That, in and of itself, won’t really prevent the events of SoulCalibur V from occurring, so she could live and we could still do the rest just with her actually saving her children instead of Edge Master. Or Astral Chaos Cassandra will actually participate in the SoulCalibur V story, as well may have been the original intention anyway.

 

[Nyte]

Minor gameplay mechanics don't mean much considering they changed more than they kept. Also, they can easily reboot Viola in if they choose -- that's how reboots work, they're not beholden to the original material that they can't change anything.

Oh, and we need to stop with this argument of "Well, if we knew more about the SCV kids, they wouldn't be so hated!". We knew everything we needed to know about Patroklos and he's the most hated character in the series for good reason. I'm not even sure if Okubo even met Daishi, and from his perspective I don't see why he would think SCV's era is worth keeping around.

 

[DanteSC3]

You’re not wrong that that’s how reboots work, but they went so far above and beyond to adhere to the original material, even in the smaller side stories that didn’t make it into Soul Chronicle but only appear in Libra of Soul, that it is legitimately shocking to me that they would suddenly stop doing it any time soon. The new Soul Chronicles continue to preserve history, as I’m sure we’ll continue seeing throughout season two. The theoretical future diverging point becomes harder to pin down when it will occur when they continue remaining loyal to the original story. It makes it hard for me to believe it is a true reboot, with all that in mind.

Maybe Patroklos is just doomed to be hated. Dampierre is too, as well as Azwel. But there are people who use such characters as a mental game to induce salt before the battle even begins. It’s not something unique to SoulCalibur V. But the fact of the matter is, we really don’t know enough about Natsu, Xiba, or Leixia to make fair judgments upon them beyond the surface, which is most of that point’s premise. Not knowing is worse than knowing and yet hating them.

 

[Nyte]

but they went so far above and beyond to adhere to the original material, even in the smaller side stories that didn’t make it into Soul Chronicle but only appear in Libra of Soul, that it is legitimately shocking to me that they would suddenly stop doing it any time soon.

What? There are plenty of deviations, many subtle, but the two whoppers of course being Zas and Cass. They have deviated, and the reason it's not as prominent as what I said elsewhere -- SCI is considered the golden age, and they knew not to mess with it. What comes later is what will be deviated from.

Maybe Patroklos is just doomed to be hated. Dampierre is too, as well as Azwel.

Azwel?! He's like the biggest hit newcomer in forever. How is he anywhere near Patroklos?

 

[I_Love_Aogami]

I'm reading all this while taking a dump in the restroom BTW.

 

[Foot]

people love pat. he is glorious

 

[Spanky]

I'm reading all this while taking a dump in the restroom BTW.

That's because Nyte has filled this thread and others with plenty of his enraged shitposts aimed at Dante. Taking a dump is the perfect thing to do while perusing this thread.

 

[sytus]

I'm reading all this while taking a dump in the restroom BTW.

And now that you've posted this you can say you're literally shitposting. XD