Starting To Learn Voldo

Thanks to all for your input.
Paragon I don't agree on these being "awful moves". What I do agree on is that you mustn't use them often. (well actually, 4A+B, 11K, BS 33BB can be used more often I think). Unknown moves always activate the "WTF" reaction and your opponent will most likely freeze.

I'll be posting some more about my Voldo progress, I feel I have the basic feel for him and now I'll be working of his combos, punishment and a few other things.
 
I've picked up Voldo as a secondary online, just wondering.. What lows/mixups do you guys use when in normal stance and your opponent is just outside of throwing range and is just standing there in guard?

Thanks for the reply..
 
Just outside throwing range, does BS AA still hit at tip? Keep an i11 In mind, because that's Voldo's fastest move by far.
 
syclical said:
I've picked up Voldo as a secondary online, just wondering.. What lows/mixups do you guys use when in normal stance and your opponent is just outside of throwing range and is just standing there in guard?

Thanks for the reply..
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For some mid-range lows, use 236B, and 11_77K. However, with this move being so slow (i27), and severely punishable on block (-16), 1A can be very risky. Personally, I don't use this move much.

Mid-Range mixups to use in conjuction with these really don't matter because of the speed at which they come out. However in my style of play, 66K and 44[K] come in pretty handy. It's really hard to believe that 44K is a High attack, but it is. Your opponent probably will not know this. It also allows MCFT B guaranteed if they get hit by 44[K].
66K is only -9 on block, and +fucking11 on hit. This move gives him the most advantage than any other move in his list. However, with him, and your opponent recovering in FC, BS AA is not possible. On block, you can use BS FC B to counter crouch throw attempts, which can then be followed up with BS 44K to tack on some guaranteed damage. On hit, well, you can do so much that anything is possible, but you will want to consider doing something that can give you advantage if it hits, to keep your momentum. An example would be BS 66G+A. Or BS WR A or BS WR K. Both of these WR attacks give advantage on hit. Also, on block, sometimes I will try to BS G+A_B to get around a vertical attack if I anticipate one.

FC 3B is probably my favorite mid-range move of Voldos.

44 can be useful too.

22_88A

6A

66_99_33B and 6:6B can also be used as they aren't very punishable on block.


BelovedChild said:
Just outside throwing range, does BS AA still hit at tip? Keep an i11 In mind, because that's Voldo's fastest move by far.
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It does, but the 2nd A will most likely whiff.
 
Paragon049 said:
aBBB, BS 33BB, BS 4AB, 11K, 4BA, 4A+B, 22A(BS one is slightly better) 22B(Facing, not BS), and 11BBB are all awful moves.
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Well, it's been like 3 months since I made this post. I've improved a lot since then, and i've developed a fondness for a few of these moves. BS 33BB in particular has found its way into my heart. If the whiffing issues didn't exist, this would be one of my favorite moves with Voldo. 11K is also pretty cool because of its range. 11K on normal hit into 6:6B shouldn't work...but it does. I just wish it tracked a little more.

22A and 4A+B are pretty gimmicky, but 22A is decent at killing step, something front-facing Voldo is extremely weak to. 4A+B is a good distance whiff punisher, but being -9 on NH and CH really sucks.

I have yet to find a good use for 11BBB, and aBBB; though, I really haven't experimented much with them. I will say that 11BBB is useful to use in certain combos, but being negative on hit isn't fun(Can't oki nearly as well after one unless you're fighting a hardcore roller). I also cannot find a good use for 22B. It just seems too slow.

4BA...I really don't know how to feel about 4BA. The second hit is duckable, but its frames and damage is really good. It's also a natural combo on normal hit. I should probably use this more. Mix it up with delays and whatnot.
 
Well one thing you should know is that while voldo has some decent low attacking moves in normal stance, you really open him up to for a low/high combo set when in blind stance. I'd say that from my experience voldo is more unpredictable and dangerous from blindstance.
 
A+B all the time, it's towards the end of the mid speed spectrum but it's safe, TC's and sets up for his staple combos (A+B, 66B, 6:6B, 44, MCHT 66, etc...) 3BB is SCD, FC 3B is a good way into BS, safe~ish with good range and pushback, walking away or jumping away is a good option after this on block... 44 is a good move but it can easily be seen and reacted to by good opponents, BS 2B+K is a bit better in that sense but it is slow as beans, using it on wake-up is good... After 4A (on grd) at close range I like to do 2A to keep the opponent in check, you could also use BS A+B to auto-GI some interrupts, BS A+B also has good SCD and is way safer than 3BB... In MCHT most of his attacks can be interrupted by a simple 2A or 2K, so it becomes a guessing game between MCHT a+bG or MCHT 6A+K, keep in mind that Voldo is easily interruptable after MC B+K, MC 6A+K, MC 2*8~LF... In landfish after LF B, LF A, LF A+K is blocked Voldo is also interrubtable, getting LF A to hit is key to his LF mixup game, if the opponent blocks low LF B takes over and can honestly win games, LF A just gets them to block low, and remeber after 3 consecutive LF attacks like LF BBB, Voldo becomes very punishable so watch out for that, ending with LFHT B+K is good for stopping interrupts and exiting LF, it's the fastest option he has in LF... BS 2A+BG is a good way to enter MCHT, I think DINO mentioned this... BS 1A is another game winner, i22 Low with super~TC property meaning it can evade some mid horizontals, + sets up for techtraps and good ground damage, if they stay down BS 22B is recommended, if they get up BS 66A works as a techtrap, BS WR B also works great in this situation... Doesn't seem like it but BCR K is a good BS poke, I like to use it from time to time, it TC's and TJ's too... Depending on which attacks hit you from certain characters while in Blind Stance BS AA will interrupt followups even if the opponent has advantage, ex: Rock does K, 4K (now i12), Voldo gets hit by K responds with BS AA (i11), Voldo interrupts and is left with advantage... BS A is also OK at catching close ranged step, but BS 22*88A is the only move catching 100% of step with Voldo, BS 22A is safe~ish (about -13 on grd) and is a mid-ranged attack with a good TC... While facing foward I've really grown to like 4K alot, its safe, has a super~TC property, good range, pushback on grd and hit, and can transition into LFHT if held... I usually never go into LFHT with 4K, on hit it's better to see how the opponent responds or back away into Voldo's spacing game, but on CH Voldo gets a 6:6B tech trap catching Foward, Backward, and Ground, and it catches all ground rolls, or Voldo gets his wakeup game... On CH 4K I like to followup with 2A+B~etc, but really you could do anything up to 4A~BS and space them... Near walls 1K is a must, it's a safe launcher leading into Voldo's good wall combos like 1K, W!, 2A+B236A+K, BCR B, BS 1[K], BS 2B+K, MCHT K or 1K, W!, 2A+B236B+K, MCFT 6A+K, W!, MCFT B+K, MCFT A+K, MCFT B...
 
Hey,

I am trying to pick up Voldo. I main Amy, and also some Yoshi. I liked Yoshi's stance play, but eventually gave up because I couldn't do iMCF consistently and I feel like not having the move hurts him quite a bit. So Voldo seems nice, no super hard moves. I've read some of the older threads on this topic, but I thought I'd spark some new discussion. My current approach is to learn normal stance and BS first, and mostly leave CR, MC, and LF for later. I understand this will leave holes in my game for now, but it's too much to take in all at once.

I thought I'd lay out sort of what my game plan and most used moves are right now, and have posters correct me or fill in gaps as they see fit. As I see it, getting to BS is critical. Voldo doesn't have a ton of powerful stuff in normal stance. Grabs are pretty average, no good knockdown low, his mid launchers are so-so. Voldo also has nothing faster than i14 in normal. You can work the gauge pretty well, but beyond that, doesn't seem to be too much to do. In BS, its completely different. So the top priority for me in normal stance is always to try to get to BS. This to me is also tricky; if you block in BS then you are back to square one so you need to get there on the offensive. Note I haven't started using the auto evades either yet; info on them would be very helpful. Once in blind stance, I am looking to do very aggressive mixups.

Normal stance:
- BB, AA for interrupting, etc
- 3BB, when their gauge is hurting, or if they're ducking. If I use a power mid in normal this is it.
- WRA, safe, good advantage on hit, excellent advantage on CH
- 4A, my preferred transition into BS because of its amazing frames on block. Cutting step (somewhat?) is a bonus.
- 4BA, nice for catching them crouching and is NC, but have to be careful, second hit is duckable, and - frames on guard means if you don't hit you will probably be forced to block in BS. It does work the gauge hard though.
- 6BB, use mostly against very aggressive players as this move is very fast, but is only NCC so if you land it on normal hit you are at disadvantage into BS.
- 1K, another good mid transition, stuns on normal hit.
- WRK, yet another good mid transition, only -4 on block so you could consider trying BS AA after.

Basically then, in normal stance my goal is: if they aren't too aggressive, 4A into BS immediately. If they are, either calm them down with normal moves first and then use 4A, or just use one of the other transitions to hit them directly.

in BS, Voldo's move list just seems incredibly powerful.

- AA, incredibly fast
- 1A, this is what i look to set up a lot. Good damage, range, hard to read. Great mixup.
- 3B, the other half of the mixup for me. Relatively safe, great damage, hurts the gauge.
- 4A, a little slower than AA but the frames are just ridiculous, -1 on block -> tech trap, +10 on hit
- 66A+G_B+G, very powerful command grabs
- 2BK and its variants, just don't overuse as the low is a bit slow
- A+B, great GI although I have to figure out what it doesn't work on more carefully, safe, crushes gauge, great move. Can use it after a disadvantaged transition into BS.

Right now, this is basically my game: get to blind stance quickly, and then 1A/3B them until they cry. I also occasionally use FC 3A+B (although I input it as 236A+B, i.e. through CR, not listed but seems to work). So I'm left with two questions: 1) What parts of what I've written are wrong? and 2) What should I work on next? I know I have to incorporate BS 2A+B as everyone seems to get excited about that. Any other particular moves? Which setups, combos, etc are a good starting point to start getting into the other stances?
 
Normal stance 2A+B -> CR -> any attack or cancel = really good. And CR is the easiest of his stances to learn, besides BS.

1[K] and WR[K] - brackets mean Hold
 
a few tools to incorporate first and then Ill explain CR because you need 2A+B

3A - really useful and few people really punish it

A+B Great in close and has large TC window, easy combo with 66B, 2A+B236B_K

FC3B - This is my goto move after I duck a high or block a low. Sets up into BS KD on hit just forget it exists against sisters unless you know its free.

236B - Ring Out

236A+B - whiff punish from full screen

Also your going to want to get used to his moves that work both ways... A,A, B,B 2A, 3K and the like will help you feel things out if you ever get confused on what answer to use given you just changed stances. Oh and always hold the kick for 1K unless you have 66:B down and you are going for RO combo.


In BS you want to start using sidestep right and normal throw if you think someone is going to do something linear. In general if someone does something that moves them forward and you sidestep it like this you get a back throw and thats big damage and good NS wakes.

BS 44A - if you ever backstep something use this move... its got range for days and even tracks step at the right spacing but doesnt hit in close... So its an ideal whiff punisher except that its high. Combo with 3B, 3B, ender of choice so if you end up in NS youll just do 3B,B and that still works

BS 3A - This is my favorite poke from BS at midrange. CH is shake stun and block is only -5 so you can use all his evasive stuff and face at max effectiveness

2B,K - this is actually one of his best jumping moves from BS. Use it alot but for that reason



And now 2A+B236 is next and this is a beast. It does massive SG damage and you get massive block advantage from it so all your CR options are uninterruptable and you can even cancel to good blocking frames. You have 4 primary options after this from CR.


CR K - Safe on block and on hit sets up in BS with you on the ground. However with this move if you buffer in your next option you will do a BS standing attack. So you can use your standing arsenal or guard to stand and use WS attacks. This hits Mid

CR A+B - Dive is amazing Small disadvantage but once you learn how to space it so it might crossup and it might not suddenly you can use your whole arsenal of evasive nonsense all after one move. Like NS A+B to stop an A,A and then next time BS 2B,K can stop 2A or standing guard. The combination of 2A+B,236A+B in series breaks in like 4-5 so when you learn to use this and then keep pressure on block you can crush someone really fast. This move is high and hits grounded at max range It is also delayable to unblockable... but all your doing by charging is giving them more time to duck so dont charge it unless you rally think someone wants to GI

CR B - This is your only low from CR and it RO's on normal hit but also gives the opponent a throw mixup on hit and on block is -20+ so I like to use dive instead and just attack the SG instead of using something that only gives a good reward as a killshot, RO or CH. CH sets up into BS wakes and Im pretty sure if they want to tech WS B and 66A should keep them down.


Cancel - This can be done with G and youll cancel to the appropriate side crouching or A+B+K~G works as well but the cancel to crouch doesnt involve a taunt and is therefore harder to read so I usually use that except when I want to combo because standing attacks are ideal for combos and it lowers the difficulty of completion
 
Just something minor i'd like to bring up, but Voldo's standing K and FC 2A in facing are both i13.

Some other tips:
-BS 3K is very good. Probably one of his best medium/close range options. i15, safe on block, +6 on hit and counter hit. It's just an all around good move.

-BCR or BS WR A is another surprisingly good move. Decent speed, good range, safe and pushes back on block, tracks step completely in both directions, gives PLUS EIGHT on hit and counter hit. You're also tech crouching throughout the entire animation.

-66K is another very useful move. Safe on block AND whiff seemingly, good damage, transitions to BS, a massive +11 on hit, knocks down on counter hit and sets up his awesome tech trap game in BS(Or you could just hound them with BS 2K until they get up). EDIT: Tested earlier, and 66K is pretty bad on whiff, unfortunately. At least -32. The weird thing is, not once have I ever been whiff punished for whiffing this move. Even the AI doesn't attempt a BB or something.

-6:6B is Voldo's best punishing option. Learn to love it, and the free 60+ damage you can get out of it. Unfortunately outside of punishing, this move isn't particularly good.

-BS 22_88B does great damage, great gauge damage, isn't THAT slow, and is safe. Doing 90 damage to someone just because you were stepping is almost unfair.

-BS 22_88A kills the hell out of step, isn't very punishable beyond an AA, gives +7 on hit, and leads to a guaranteed combo on stun. CH BS 22A, BS 3B.
 
So, my update. I have been moving along a lot, and have learned a lot of what I wrote before was nonsense :-). In particular, my view of NS/BS has changed a lot. I have started whoring out A+B and 2A+B like no tomorrow; I now basically see these as his best mids overall. So his best mids are in NS, but his best lows/grabs are in BS. Against very aggressive opponents I don't try extremely hard to get to BS anymore. Honestly, I have beaten people using almost exclusively A+B, 66B, 6:6B, 1B -> A+B/grab mixup. A lot of people online also twitch duck, and hence block the beginning of A+B and eat the end. If they give me a little more time then I'll use 2A+B. I also use 2A+B a ton on grounded, so now I generally prefer NS to BS for oki. I also use his 2A a lot, its basically a must against some faster characters to interrupt their strings. If they are actually respecting frames, i.e. they just block after getting block, I'll usually look for a 4A into BS. Here are some things I'm still working on:

- I am trying to use BS A+B, sometimes it works great. But there's two issues. First some characters like Asta and nightmare just always kick me out of it, this are not parried from what I understand. E.g. if I know for sure that Asta will knee me after a blocked 1[K], are there any good evasion options or should I just block?Second sometimes it doesn't block attacks I would expect it too. It says on the wiki that it misses certain "stab attacks" but doesn't specify, any good examples or list somewhere?

- Catching step: mostly use 4A or AA's for this (or grab), what else is good?

- I learned Voldo to a large degree through random forum posts and looking on the wiki trying random moves with decent frame date. However I guess I'm probably missing some moves with poor frame data that have good properties otherwise, i.e. long range, catch step, push out, etc. In particular I haven't tried a lot of 8WR moves cause there are so many. Any suggestion? Going to start playing with BS 44A, NS 66A, NS 66K, already use BS 22B and NS 66K but to be honest not much else. Especially need more dynamic options for approaching a character in BS; I often use A+B right now and it's not always a good choice due to the linear high.

- BS 2A+B, no idea on using this, does weird random things. I see there's a low in there, thought maybe it could be used as a mixup. Worth learning?

- BS B+K, 2B+K same as above, I know 2B+K is used a lot in combos but that's it. Do you have advantage after stance transition from 2B+K (will you get punished on block)? I'm curious what other mid options there are in BS; right now I mostly use 3B as my faster one and 22B as my slower but safer one.

- I barely use landfish or mantis crawl, what are some of the best transitions or setups? NS 66A or, or BS 2B+K, or BS 6...

- Evades: don't use them at all right now. Suggestions when to use and how, or even how exactly they work? I've heard you should use 2_8A+K to replace step in many situations. However having timing issues.

- As an addendum to the above, is there anything Voldo can do with Sophie's 11AA_[A] mixup? This is infuriating me online. I played people who usually do the unblockable, but not always. I almost always freeze. I know the first 11A shouldn't hit me, but it's online and it does sometime. Still though even on hit I shouldn't have to eat the unblockable. I was thinking maybe you could use an evade in between the two attacks? Although I thought someone said that A+K's don't work vs unblockables (which is annoying if true).
 
Nirf said:
- Catching step: mostly use 4A or AA's for this (or grab), what else is good?

- BS 2A+B, no idea on using this, does weird random things. I see there's a low in there, thought maybe it could be used as a mixup. Worth learning?

- BS B+K, 2B+K same as above, I know 2B+K is used a lot in combos but that's it. Do you have advantage after stance transition from 2B+K (will you get punished on block)? I'm curious what other mid options there are in BS; right now I mostly use 3B as my faster one and 22B as my slower but safer one.

- Evades: don't use them at all right now. Suggestions when to use and how, or even how exactly they work? I've heard you should use 2_8A+K to replace step in many situations. However having timing issues.

- As an addendum to the above, is there anything Voldo can do with Sophie's 11AA_[A] mixup? This is infuriating me online. I played people who usually do the unblockable, but not always. I almost always freeze. I know the first 11A shouldn't hit me, but it's online and it does sometime. Still though even on hit I shouldn't have to eat the unblockable. I was thinking maybe you could use an evade in between the two attacks? Although I thought someone said that A+K's don't work vs unblockables (which is annoying if true).
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For catching people that step, you can use 3A(Decent at catching people stepping to Voldo's right), 2A+B~236, CR K, 1K(Occasionally catches right step), 236 B+K, B+K, 4A+B(I don't really recommend this, though), 66K(Has a weird hitbox and will occasionally hit right steppers), 22K, and CR AA(Second hit). AA is still his best anti-step tool in facing.

BS 2A+B is decent as you can go into MCHT by canceling it, go into the bomb part, or don't do anything. If you decide to go into mantis crawl, you can do either MCHT 6A+K or MCHT 66. It's up to you. I guess you could try using MCHT 2_8, but you seem to get hit a ton even while doing those.

BS B+K is okay to throw out once in a while as long as you don't get too predictable with it. It leads to so much damage on counter hit that that alone makes it worth using. I do not think BS 2B+K is safe on block, but I could be wrong. It's so slow and its range is so short that I only use it at far range if I want to get into mantis crawl for some reason. Other decent mids in BS are: BB, 3K, 22A, BCR/WR A, BCR/WR B(Sort of slow), 1K, 33BB(Try not to use this too much. The second part has a nasty habit of whiffing), 3A, 6B(I don't use this too often for some reason), 66B, and 66A(Careful with this, though. You can be punished).

2_8A+K can be used as a sort of super step, but you don't really have many options after it unless you do BS 2_8[A+K], in which case you can use his stuff from MCHT. I don't find 4A+K too useful as the options after the held version are predictable if you know Voldo's range on his CR attacks, and it just doesn't retreat back that far. A simple 7G covers about the same distance.

I don't think there's much you can do about that "mix-up" online. Sorry.
 
I'm picking up Voldo as well. Amy and Sophie are getting a little boring... so here goes.

I was surprised to see that there are no "Top Ten Voldo moves" threads or anything like that around here. I am focusing on his basic moves and stance transitions atm, and would like to know the best way to go about learning this goofball. Right now, I am playing a super hard turtle Voldo and am punishing with 6:6B, BS AA, BB, and going into very simple mix-ups. Am I starting in the right place? Are there any tricks or advice someone can give me that would lead to me learning him faster? What would be the most important aspect to keep in mind while learning Voldo?

Thanks for the help.
 
If you want to learn him naturally (i.e. through experience, which may take longer), I think learning to play Voldo should take you through these steps in roughly this order

-Master the very simple. BB, AA, A+B, 1A, and especially 2A+B~CR K/B.

-Next, focus on blindstance transitions and incorporate them into your game to the point where they're fluid and natural. If they're awkward and forced in there, it's going to be harder to naturally flow into blindstance offense. This isn't necessarily restricted to just the moves that directly lead you into blindstance like 4A, 1K hold, cr~A+K, etc.

Learn all the *situations* that end with you in blindstance as well. Learn the angles that CR~B will, on hit, cross your opponent up and leave your back turned them. Learn where CR~A+B crosses tehm up in a similar manner, etc.

Learning how to fluidly transition from blindstance to frontstance and vice versa without it interrupting your flow is just about the most important thing you will learn about Voldo.

Once blindstance is natural, focus on improving your simple combos. 1{K}, 2B+K, K. A+B, 66B, 2A+B~CR K/B, and BS 44A, 3B, 3B, 3B/1{B}/22_88B, etc.


Things like the auto evades, mantis crawl/land fish shenanigans, those should be the very last thing you incorporate into your game, after Voldo feels natural and intuitive for you in other respects.


to simplify, I think the process to learning Voldo is essentially

1. Learn pokes

2. Learn transitions into and out of blindstance

3. Learn and master your staple combos (they're not very difficult)

4. Learn the situations in which you get most of your offense, and think of ways to mix it up. (example, I'm in blind stance. I just 1A, 2K'd him. I BS Cr crawl backwards. Am I gonna guard cancel 1A, or am I giong to do while rising B into combo?)

5. Learn ringouts, make them natural

6. Once every other aspect of your game is mastered, that's when you should spend time thinking how to incorporate evades or shenanigans into your game
 
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