Yoshimitsu
[09] Warrior
Can someone give me tips on how to use him? I've seen videos on how he is played, but I need advice on him.
Starting To Learn Voldo
- Thread starter Yoshimitsu
- Start date
Fiendchi
[09] Warrior
Well...IMO SC4's Voldo pretty much should playing on standing position，which are Face opponent and Blind stance , MC no longer as powerful as in SC3.
My list :))
Core moves:
2A+B236 series
A+B (TC really fast begin from i9)
6:6B
secondly core:
3B_3BB
66A+B_A+B K
CR A+B
poke:
2K (decent range)
3K (TC ,speed)
236B
Good low:
1A
BS 1A
BS 2BK
CF game：
CR A+B
2A+B
3BB
1A
BS 1A
BS A+B
My list :))
Core moves:
2A+B236 series
A+B (TC really fast begin from i9)
6:6B
secondly core:
3B_3BB
66A+B_A+B K
CR A+B
poke:
2K (decent range)
3K (TC ,speed)
236B
Good low:
1A
BS 1A
BS 2BK
CF game：
CR A+B
2A+B
3BB
1A
BS 1A
BS A+B
- Thread starter
- #3
Yoshimitsu
[09] Warrior
That's what I've been trying to get used to. Mantis Crawl is just plain hard to get used to.
I like 1a which is a low hit,then I imediately do 3a+b from a crouched position (hold a & b til it charges all the way). if it hits it takes away half their energy.6,6a+b,k is also good and has a very long reach.good combo is 3b,ab,1b(hold so you pick them of the ground) from there you can grab if they dont duck or you can do 3b again and it starts all over again.from 1b I do 1a followed by a 3a+b from crouch. or you can do 4a+b. mantis crawl to grab is good when your far.
First off, read my combo thread. I have recently updated it to reflect combos as of patch 1.03, so it is now accurate and up to date.
That said, I mostly agree with what Fiendchi posted. I am going to recap what he said and go into more detail as to why I agree or disagree.
Core moves:
2A+B236 series - Agree. 2A+B will break soul gauge in 10 blocks. His CR moves after 2A+B are uninterruptable, and give him a good mixup game. This move is something best done on wakeup or when your opponent is at a significant frame disadvantage. Weaknesses: opponent can step to their right. Will only track to opponent's left.
A+B (TC really fast begin from i9) - Agree. This is Voldo's fastest TC as far as I can tell. It leads to 55 damage on hit. It's a great move. If you need to tech crouch early, use this move.
6:6B - Agree. This move is Voldo's punisher. Anything that's unsafe on block, this will give you 67 damage. It doesn't really have any weaknesses because you should only be using it as a punisher. If you are going to randomly fish for counterhits, you should use 66B because it leads to more damage than a CH 6:6B.
Additions:
236B - Opponents figure out that after you knock them down, you are going to do 2A+B series. Therefore, they start rolling to the right, causing 2A+B to whiff. Therefore, you need to be doing 236B to punish your opponent for rolling to the right, as 1A will whiff.
3BB - Moved this move up from secondary core in Fiendchi's list. This move also does great soul gauge damage, similar to 2A+B. However, the 2nd hit can be GIed. This means you can't just throw it out there nonstop and not eventually get punished for it. So why is it a core move? Well, because if you know they are going to whiff a GI expecting the 2nd hit, you get great mind games to punish them. Second, it seems to tech crouch. I have had throws go right over Voldo's head and then hit them with 3BB for 54 damage. I don't know explicitly whether this has tech crouch frames, and if it does they're rather late, but I have beaten throws with this move and it has better wakes than A+B.
1K or 1[K] - 46 damage + RO for 1K option. 48 damage + BS wakes for 1[K] option. Tech crouches slower than A+B unfortunately, but has longer range. Also, if 1[K] gets blocked, you have access to BS 1A and BS A+B, for either a very good tech crouch to duck punishment or an auto-GI. Must have in any Voldo player's arsenal.
Secondary core moves:
66A+B - Agree. However I disagree on 66A+BK ever being worthwhile. The K is high. Any good player is going to duck the K 100% of the time and punish you. It's only guaranteed on counterhit, and on counterhit I think Voldo has stronger options such as 2A+B~CR K.
CR A+B - Agree. This move is only useful as a punisher however. Example: Your opponent backdashes. CR A+B. Your opponent whiffs a move. CR A+B. Your opponent is in stance at range. CR A+B. If you are not using it in these situations, your opponent is going to duck it and punish you. It can be useful for soul gauge damage if you can train your opponent to block mid after 2A+B in expectation of a CR K, however. 8 blocks will soul crush. Keep in mind this is only +0 on block however.
Pokes:
2K - Agree. Range on this is pretty good. Doesn't seem to give any advantage on hit though.
3K - Agree. Fast mid kicks are always good.
236B - Disagree. Negative frames on hit. Only good on counterhit, and if you're looking for a counterhit there's better moves you could've done. You're giving up offensive pressure when you hit with this move and it doesn't do enough damage to justify that in my opinion.
Good lows:
1A - Disagree. Blockable on reaction. At least -16 or more on block because Voldo's own 6:6B can punish it for 67 damage so it is very unsafe. Only good to catch someone tech rolling backwards or forwards. Not even good as GI punishment because [B+K] and CR [A+B] are better.
BS 1A - Agree but only because it's safe on block.
BS 2BK - Agree but only because BS 2B tracks both directions.
CF game:
Everything Fiendchi posted is correct so I won't even go into this.
That said, I mostly agree with what Fiendchi posted. I am going to recap what he said and go into more detail as to why I agree or disagree.
Core moves:
2A+B236 series - Agree. 2A+B will break soul gauge in 10 blocks. His CR moves after 2A+B are uninterruptable, and give him a good mixup game. This move is something best done on wakeup or when your opponent is at a significant frame disadvantage. Weaknesses: opponent can step to their right. Will only track to opponent's left.
A+B (TC really fast begin from i9) - Agree. This is Voldo's fastest TC as far as I can tell. It leads to 55 damage on hit. It's a great move. If you need to tech crouch early, use this move.
6:6B - Agree. This move is Voldo's punisher. Anything that's unsafe on block, this will give you 67 damage. It doesn't really have any weaknesses because you should only be using it as a punisher. If you are going to randomly fish for counterhits, you should use 66B because it leads to more damage than a CH 6:6B.
Additions:
236B - Opponents figure out that after you knock them down, you are going to do 2A+B series. Therefore, they start rolling to the right, causing 2A+B to whiff. Therefore, you need to be doing 236B to punish your opponent for rolling to the right, as 1A will whiff.
3BB - Moved this move up from secondary core in Fiendchi's list. This move also does great soul gauge damage, similar to 2A+B. However, the 2nd hit can be GIed. This means you can't just throw it out there nonstop and not eventually get punished for it. So why is it a core move? Well, because if you know they are going to whiff a GI expecting the 2nd hit, you get great mind games to punish them. Second, it seems to tech crouch. I have had throws go right over Voldo's head and then hit them with 3BB for 54 damage. I don't know explicitly whether this has tech crouch frames, and if it does they're rather late, but I have beaten throws with this move and it has better wakes than A+B.
1K or 1[K] - 46 damage + RO for 1K option. 48 damage + BS wakes for 1[K] option. Tech crouches slower than A+B unfortunately, but has longer range. Also, if 1[K] gets blocked, you have access to BS 1A and BS A+B, for either a very good tech crouch to duck punishment or an auto-GI. Must have in any Voldo player's arsenal.
Secondary core moves:
66A+B - Agree. However I disagree on 66A+BK ever being worthwhile. The K is high. Any good player is going to duck the K 100% of the time and punish you. It's only guaranteed on counterhit, and on counterhit I think Voldo has stronger options such as 2A+B~CR K.
CR A+B - Agree. This move is only useful as a punisher however. Example: Your opponent backdashes. CR A+B. Your opponent whiffs a move. CR A+B. Your opponent is in stance at range. CR A+B. If you are not using it in these situations, your opponent is going to duck it and punish you. It can be useful for soul gauge damage if you can train your opponent to block mid after 2A+B in expectation of a CR K, however. 8 blocks will soul crush. Keep in mind this is only +0 on block however.
Pokes:
2K - Agree. Range on this is pretty good. Doesn't seem to give any advantage on hit though.
3K - Agree. Fast mid kicks are always good.
236B - Disagree. Negative frames on hit. Only good on counterhit, and if you're looking for a counterhit there's better moves you could've done. You're giving up offensive pressure when you hit with this move and it doesn't do enough damage to justify that in my opinion.
Good lows:
1A - Disagree. Blockable on reaction. At least -16 or more on block because Voldo's own 6:6B can punish it for 67 damage so it is very unsafe. Only good to catch someone tech rolling backwards or forwards. Not even good as GI punishment because [B+K] and CR [A+B] are better.
BS 1A - Agree but only because it's safe on block.
BS 2BK - Agree but only because BS 2B tracks both directions.
CF game:
Everything Fiendchi posted is correct so I won't even go into this.
Fiendchi
[09] Warrior
Some TC moves data from Japan player--社会の膿
■TC from 5F~
6K…20F、High、20DMG
This move also TJ and safe on Block
■TC from 6F~
4K…16F、High、18DMG
1B…26F、Mid、20DMG
236…
■TC From9F~
2A…14F、S-low、10DMG
3A…17F、Mid、18DMG
A+B…19F、Mid combo
3B I can't remember the exact TC frame but it likes from 11 somthing.
■TC from 5F~
6K…20F、High、20DMG
This move also TJ and safe on Block
■TC from 6F~
4K…16F、High、18DMG
1B…26F、Mid、20DMG
236…
■TC From9F~
2A…14F、S-low、10DMG
3A…17F、Mid、18DMG
A+B…19F、Mid combo
3B I can't remember the exact TC frame but it likes from 11 somthing.
- Thread starter
- #8
Yoshimitsu
[09] Warrior
Which Mantis Crawl moves should I use?
Mantis crawl sucks in this installment. You should not be trying to use mantis crawl as a staple of your gameplay. Both your previous posts ask about mantis crawl...don't get hung up on mantis crawl. The risk is not worth the reward in this installment.
Now, if you do get into mantis crawl, you should be using either MCFT 6A+K, MCFT A+B, MCHT 66, MCHT 6A+K, or MCHT K. Or rolling into landfish.
Now, if you do get into mantis crawl, you should be using either MCFT 6A+K, MCFT A+B, MCHT 66, MCHT 6A+K, or MCHT K. Or rolling into landfish.
Xenomorph
[08] Mercenary
Landfish is very useful in my opinion. Even though very good players can interrupt it, some people have no idea how to break its attacks. Mixing up your A and B attacks in landfish can also play mind games with people because many attempt to lowblock the attack. Voldo is best utilized as a mind fuck. I disagree that 236B can't be used as an attack in itself(But it can be unsafe) because once someone auto ducks for a block you can mix it up with a 236K or 66K, the same goes for 1B when people learn to low block it. Mantis is not useful as a stance itself, so use the moves Nadaez suggests. A+B, 3B is one of my favorite moves to pull out and you get free hits from it. I also use 2B as a poke to mix it up between 2K. 236 G+B is an extremely useful attack that can be a great follow up move to confuse your enemies and leaves you in BS. It also is good to get in range of your enemy. Because voldo has so little lows, you need to confuse your enemies so they have to guess if your going to use a high or a low.
Also a move I didn't see on this list that I use sometimes is 22_88 K and BS 22_88 KK. While not a core move, 22_88 K has good range and BS 22_88 KK is a good confusing move that can ring out if utilized (such as following up with BB). Be aware that BS 22_88 KK is a slower move so use caution. And I disagree with 66A+B K because even though good players will learn to duck it, it catches people off guard more often than not.
If your going to utilize something, practice Callisto rush attacks not mantis crawl. (Especially in unison with 2A+B).
Also a move I didn't see on this list that I use sometimes is 22_88 K and BS 22_88 KK. While not a core move, 22_88 K has good range and BS 22_88 KK is a good confusing move that can ring out if utilized (such as following up with BB). Be aware that BS 22_88 KK is a slower move so use caution. And I disagree with 66A+B K because even though good players will learn to duck it, it catches people off guard more often than not.
If your going to utilize something, practice Callisto rush attacks not mantis crawl. (Especially in unison with 2A+B).
ando1184
[09] Warrior
quote: 236 G+B is an extremely useful attack that can be a great follow up move to confuse your enemies.
i think u meant 236 G+A, bc G+B puts u in mantis crawl and is risky bc sumtimes it leads to u ROing urself.
Quote: 22_88 K has good range and BS 22_88 KK is a good confusing move that can ring out if utilized (such as following up with BB).
yes i agree with this but, this move is way too easily broadcasted. once a person learns it's low/mid, u shouldnt try it anymore.
i think u meant 236 G+A, bc G+B puts u in mantis crawl and is risky bc sumtimes it leads to u ROing urself.
Quote: 22_88 K has good range and BS 22_88 KK is a good confusing move that can ring out if utilized (such as following up with BB).
yes i agree with this but, this move is way too easily broadcasted. once a person learns it's low/mid, u shouldnt try it anymore.
I disagree. People I play regularly online can block LF A and LF B on reaction. If they can block it online on reaction, offline you're even more screwed. LF A+K jumps 2A's but it doesn't beat 2K's and the people I'm playing are using 2K now. I've found its best to use LF and MC like DINO uses them, and flip stances a couple of times before attacking. Most of the time that LF works for me is when I get it to land on counterhit because people underestimate the speed, tracking and range of LF B.
236B is unsafe on block. You will get punished, and punished fairly heavily, on block. 236B is disadvantage on hit. You are giving your opponent a free mixup between a WR or FC mid and a throw when you hit with it. I really hate giving my opponent a free throw mixup on hit. I would rather do 236K and have it blocked every single time than do 236B, unless 236B is going to ring out. I can get up from 236K with a sidestepping throw. I can get up from 236K with BS WR B. I can get up from 236K with BS 4KA. Once my opponent is in the habit of guarding mid for 236K, I can do 236A+B for 15% soul gauge damage. I'll take 15% soul gauge damage over the measly 26 or so 236B gives me followed by a free mixup game for my opponent.
Agree here.
Disagree. My opponents can trivially duck CR throws on reaction and punish. The only time CR throws are useful is if my opponent is grounded and thinks they are out of range of Voldo's wakeup game and techs up immediately rather than siderolling. That's the only time my CR throws hit anymore. Every other situation, again, my opponents duck on reaction. Also, I don't think high/low mixups are what you meant, because high/low mixups are easily beatable by crouching. Low/mid mixups are what you need, and what Voldo generally lacks since most of his lows can be blocked on reaction and are unsafe.
That's because it's blockable on reaction and unsafe on block. Try using this move on Lobo, you eat Cassandra's shield bash. The only time I can get it to hit against good players offline is when I watch for the exact frame they stand up from prone and do it while they're getting up guarding mid. As just a generic move out of blind stance, it sucks. It loses you rounds.
Good players will learn to duck it? No. Good players HAVE been ducking it since SC1-SC2 days. This move is so slow, it's not going to catch ANYONE off guard who has any anti-Voldo experience at all. DC_Lawless punishes me 100% of the time with Cervy's WR moves online. Lobo punishes me 100% of the time with Cassie's WR launch move into shield bashes offline. It's useless except on counterhit, and even then you could do CH 66[A+B], 2A+B~CR K for better wakes.
Agree.
Manta
[10] Knight
SC4 is the first Calibur where Voldo's 66A+B,K is mid, high.
But agreed, after ducking, any decent player will have plenty of time to pretty much destroy you.
All good points =)
-Manta-
Really? I could've sworn it was mid/high in SC2. Admittedly I never played SC3 much, I thought it was a terrible game and didn't invest much time in it. Oh well. I know the 2nd hit could be GIed in SC2 at least, and can still be GIed in SC4. Personally I think Voldo is best played as a soul gauge damage character in SC4. I may lose the first round, maybe even the second round, because I'm not doing any actual damage to my opponent, but I can win the next 3. Once my opponent's gauge is red, they can't block or they lose the round. If they get CFed, their soul gauge is only at 75% starting the next round, it takes only like 2-3 blocked moves to put them back in dark red and a couple more after that to put it blinking again.
What does all this mean? Well, I've had opponents eat the hit because they don't want to get critical finished. This gives you wakeup games afterwards. I have opponents try to GI. This gives you [B+K] for 70 damage if you know they're going to GI. I've had opponents start attacking at a frame disadvantage because they fear the CF. They start attacking from grounded giving you a CH 2A+B~BCR B, 1[K], BS 2B+K, MCHT K combo. I don't think you need lows like 1A and 236B. I'd rather do a mid and have it blocked and be at good spacing with soul gauge advantage.
What does all this mean? Well, I've had opponents eat the hit because they don't want to get critical finished. This gives you wakeup games afterwards. I have opponents try to GI. This gives you [B+K] for 70 damage if you know they're going to GI. I've had opponents start attacking at a frame disadvantage because they fear the CF. They start attacking from grounded giving you a CH 2A+B~BCR B, 1[K], BS 2B+K, MCHT K combo. I don't think you need lows like 1A and 236B. I'd rather do a mid and have it blocked and be at good spacing with soul gauge advantage.
- Thread starter
- #15
Yoshimitsu
[09] Warrior
I've been trying what you've all been saying. It's been a real help. But, could someone post some good Voldo versus videos? I need to see how other people use Voldo.
Fiendchi
[09] Warrior
There 're bunch of videos on VOLDO arena.
Check the Voldo match video thread
Check the Voldo match video thread
Xenomorph
[08] Mercenary
Thats why I said it's good as a follow up move. Also, this guide is for general pointers not how to go pro with voldo. He's learning voldo, he needs to know what moves can work against enemies and then evolve his own style. CR throws are very useful and work wonderfully with MOST of the enemies you'll fight. Where are you fighting? I catch people with CR throws all the time. It can be a great move if your enemy doesn't realize it's range like you said. Landfish is also very easy to get out of, so if it doesn't work on your enemy then just escape. I think your trying to name off whats not safe and forgetting what CAN be effective.
Shadius
[08] Mercenary
As the title said i've been trying to learn Voldo. I've been picking him alot lately because I like his unique ways to play (reminds me of X XD) and I wanted to know some tips to start with.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
spam 1[K] unless they are sidestepping it often. same goes for 2A+B because you go into mixups off that on block. when in BS (bullshit) mode, mixup BS 1A and BS 1K (or BS 3B)