Stop making match-up charts!

[malek]

ah ah Belial, your still here. I just have to invoked your name and then you appears !
Good to see you again on the forum.

Your the one who told me that Kingusha is the best in russia with you.
And your the one who told me that Elazul is "godlike".
+ you defeat lot's of Amy players with MITSU.

Why is it so impossible to understand that Cass or Sophi can fight Amy at least at the same level than Mitsu ?
Why is her ground game so powerfull than Cass RO or Sophi punishment game became insignifiant ?

And I remember to wath a vid with a Russian Mitsu who explain how to fight againt Amy. Isn't it possible for all the others charcters in the game to challenge her the same way too ?

Come on Belial. Or at least explain it pls.

+ I think I lost my FT5 to Thuggish because it was 4am ^_^
Cause as far as I remember, he never beats me during any comp (eheh, little taunt)

 

[Belial]

Malek, my friend, its just i've been explaining it for quite some time now and It's a long story.
It has been the same since SC2. Xianhua had 5 moves that were so easy to spam and so effecitve. It took much much more effort to fight her that any other char. SC3 X, now SC4 has amy Imo its almost as annoying as NTSC Xianghua in SC3.

Why? First is b/c she can really beat you regardless of who you play. If people spend some time and learn how to force her wakeup its impossible to get out. Regardless of how good your character is he cannot do anything while he is on the ground. No step, no GI, no evade. So it comes down to 50/50.

Second - b/c with such characters its very very easy to make opponent predictable. Every situation can lead to her mad wake up game. You block something? guess if theres aGI or duck or step etc. You have to play perfectly and react to situation perfectly. Amy can just spam the same stuff everytime it will be just as effective, but solutions you have to come up are very different. And so Amy can be very unpredictable with just 5-6 move set, but she makes opponent very predictable b/c her moves cover so much of what opp can do and are so effective.
When I played some people with Amy during my visit in september I've really been raping people (good players, some of them made it to FR team in the end) using almost nothing but 3B/3BA "mix up". Does it mean I was just that much better to beat top players with just 2 moves? (yes it does xD)
When I played with RTD and Kayane at Evo and RTD said he need amy practice I used amy and they were "wow, u have the best amy I ever played", and I dont even play her. It's b/c when a good player with quick adaptation and some knowledge of the game picks her up he gets a serious advantage compared to when he use another character. And she's super easy to pick up and use.

Now you ban hilde after Dina pick her up and level up instantly. Same happened here with Amy. I've witnessed players who's been struggling to win a match out of 10 from me, suddenly pick her up and start taking 1 out or 3 from me etc.

The most amusing thing to me was how unbelievably lame was community worldwide not spamming the shit out of Amy and Hilde. Tekken players never had problem with abusing T4 Jin, T5 steve etc. It has always been the normal way for competetive games. But in SC4 it is different, I guess that just shows people do not care so much about winning. Maybe that's not a bad thing in general, but it is bad for the game. And maybe thats the real reason why, outside of france (who's devotion and respect for calibur I've always admired) SC4 has died out.
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btw Vincent is the best troll I've ever seen, hats off

 

[ZeroEffect317]

the key factor is that the only way to beat Amy is to take gambles and/or strategize around everything she can do as best you can. This is what makes her a top tier. Not her 6BB, not her 2B+K, not her wakeup, not her safety, not her aGIs, but ALL of these things combined that you, as the opponent, must always keep in mind throughout the fight.

with such characters its very very easy to make opponent predictable. Every situation can lead to her mad wake up game. You block something? guess if theres aGI or duck or step etc. You have to play perfectly and react to situation perfectly. Amy can just spam the same stuff everytime it will be just as effective, but solutions you have to come up are very different. And so Amy can be very unpredictable with just 5-6 move set, but she makes opponent very predictable b/c her moves cover so much of what opp can do and are so effective.

There are parallels in both of these. Belial pretty much said in different words what I was saying in an earlier post concerning why I believe Amy is practically the best of the legal characters in the game overall.

You have to play and strategize entirely differently just to accommodate for this character's outstanding tools for almost every situation. The other top tiers, in my opinion, have tools to create this same effect. (Kilik and Ivy for example).


Which is what I meant by saying...

instead of taking them out of their element, strategically, you are generally taken out of yours from the start.

So yeah, that's ultimately why I think Amy (and for that matter Kilik and Ivy as well) should be at the top of the list.

 

[malek]

As far as I remember X from Soul3 most broken tool was 33B who hit you for half life. All of her other tools were very very strong, but just like other top tier as Sophitia or Setsuka for example. + She was the easiest character to play with (no need for lots of skill to use 33B).

About Amy,
Yes she is easy to play in term of skill. But that's not enough, is it ?
Yes on the ground it is 50/50 but the damage are not that much strong that you'll die if you made the bad choice.
Example, Sophi can punish Amy's 2B+K with FC 2B8BAK and then 4B for pressure.
So, Sophitia guess correct one time whereas Amy has to guess correct 2 time for the same amount of damage.
Then why would Amy has an advantage ? Because she is the one attaking, and Sophitia the one defending ?
+ On the ground characters can wake up with an evade move. Asura for example.

Most strong character only used 5-6 move set (Setsuka, Sophitia, Kilik, Astaroth, ...). Not just Amy.
Setsuka can spam 33B, Ivy can spam CL 1B B+K, Sophi can spam TAS B, ...
These moves also "cover so much of what opp can do and are so effective. "

First, "yes it does".
2nd, to beat someone with only one mix up only show you that your opponent don't know your character at all. Nothing more.
Again, "And she's super easy to pick up and use." Yes this is true. But, that alone, is not enough to say she is top tier.
It can be frustrating yes. To take lots of time to learn you own character, and then loose to someone who just pick a character like Amy or Asta and beats you cause he'll spam the 5-6 moves effective. But that only make the difference between a character easy to use and an other one. That's all.

My opinion on Amy and Hilde, why they are not more used. It's because it's boring to play them.
Hilde can be played in a different way ShenYuan proove it at Cannes, but for Amy ...

 

[Belial]

On the ground characters can wake up with an evade move. Asura for example.

no

Amy tools are top tier, how is it possible not to see this, hmm?
Yes, when you adapt a little, when you have time to get used etc you can actually try to outdamage and outguess her, in, say FT 5 or FT 10 (If your a better player). But in a tournament setting the level of adjustment she has to make compared to what the other character has to do is tremendous.
Quite the contrary Hilde is beatable with tricks in tournament but unbeatable in FT 5.

You are correct that every player usually judges based on his experience. Truth is, France has little to none experience against Amy. Even with some great players who are adept at theory like Maxou you still cant believe that Amy is ridiculous. As far as I remember Maxou agrees with me on this. I really wish I could coach Tresto enough so he would show you Amy power, but sadly he doesnt yet have enough experience like french top players have.

So you can chose to believe -
1) all the french players who miserably lost to Amy at Cannes.
2) Maxou who was the best french player at the moment and knows a lot about the game
3) Me (who's belial anyway...)
4) USA who rocks with amy all over the world.

My opinion on Amy and Hilde, why they are not more used. It's because it's boring to play them.
Hilde can be played in a different way ShenYuan proove it at Cannes, but for Amy ...

I have to stand with Omar on this - this is not about FUN it's about winning. It is fun to win, it's sad to suck. end of story. Some players like myself, chose characters based on retarded reasoning like "this char is hawt" but eventually if you dont work as hard as I do you end up with your mouth full of "fun" Amy players put in there. Its important to balance the game out, so it would be interesting to more and more people so community can grow larger and larger, but basically its not about having a good time its about beating the shit out of the other guy and takin the trophy. And as long as everyone who works hard has a good shot at it - the game is "fun". Not using broken character b/c its "boring" is completely out of my imaginary universe called competetive gaming.

 

[KingAce]

Malek

I thought I was done with this thread, but let me argue against that post. You just posted nothing but theory. What you're saying exists on some other plain of thought that is completely subjective and represents no practicality.

Amy's mids are far worse than her lows, easy to spam, do considerable juggle damage, and can ringout. Because she has fast lows, most players get irritated. She gets through your defense very quick and efficiently, so unless you can rush her down, without eating an auto gi in the face or getting caught by one of her nasty evades, you eventually breakdown defensively.
This is what makes amy strong. Stuff like 6B being i11 for a large number of the cast, she can interrupt their stuff, attack at disadvantage, and completely switch the pressure back in her favor. In tekken 6, Pros don't always go for high damaging juggles, they can poke you to death or until you wear down and make a mistake to lose 60% of your life.

Amy's comebacks can only be rivaled by Hilde's.

A large part of our skill is defense, but fighting Amy, defending is your enemy. You always want to be in control of pressure. Defend less, attack more, stopping Amy from mind fucking you. So it's imperative to always be on the offensive, thing is Amy has the tools to switch pressure back into her favor.

Now imagine if Amy players generally had great defense? You think characters like Sophie, Setsuka and Ivy would stand a chance.

Amy's is easier to learm, and easier to win with...she's better. You're writing strategies to beat her, Amy players are just perfecting the same exact setups with minor tweaks.

 

[Nemesis-Kanden]

Amy's is easier to learm, and easier to win with...she's better. You're writing strategies to beat her, Amy players are just perfecting the same exact setups with minor tweaks.

This right here kinda sounds like what aris said about fighting hilde in a random thread a loooong time ago, and to me it sounds like what belial is saying about amy too.

Random online player posting, dont mind me.

EDIT: LOL @ tags.

 

[Foxbot]

Seems like this Amy debate is pretty hot and I won't try to get into it.

I do want to say that "ease of playing" is really important though. In the heat of battle (between two players on the same level), you may have to think about a lot of things (spacing, adaptation, matchup tools, etc) and if your character is simple to play, your brain can better focus on these items above instead having to worry about JF executions, stance transitions, and reaction-based defense. I have two examples:

1) Theoretically it's possible to TAS B block punish a lot of moves but the execution in practice is pretty hard and I don't see people do it at all; in fact punishing 2K with 236B is rare enough. Setsuka can punish Asta's 6K with 44B+K or iUmbrella, but I don't see people do it at all. On that note, punishing 2K with crouch throws and punish 6K with AA are much easier.

2) Sometimes Asta players can win against much better players because Asta is simple to play (and if you guess the right throws a lot). 80% of the time bullrush/command throw is a true 50/50 and they compliment each others' weaknesses pretty well. At the end of the day, I would prefer to have simple but effective, multi-purpose bullrush over Setsuka's B+K combo even though B+K combo does 3x the damage and it looks like her 2A+B a bit.

So yeah it does matter that Hilde and Amy are so strong AND easy to play.

One last thing, KingAce, silence is gold. Every fact you want to mention is already known to these top players, and every argument you want to start, these top players can come up with a much better one ...

 

[malek]

Silence is not gold. In my opinion the more xp, the best it is.

Belial
So i'll choose to believe Belial:

as for amy-mitsu, first - Amy "steppability" is highly overrated, second - you need to make her atack exactly at the time you step, third - she has throws, which are good, b/c it KD.
Both characters have good wake up, both have good tools against each other, thats why I give advantage to mitsu in the end. However Amy is much better character (broken).
I actually am tempted to agree with rza, I feel matchup is closer to 5/5, also b/c when people cant agree on matchup in 2 years the game is out it means advantage (if any) is insignificant.

Your right about Amy and Hilde in competition. I agree.
How ever, competition is not match up.

But this: "France has little to none experience against Amy" is true.
Then, once again it's time to ask for help.

Astaroth - 5
Cassandra - 6
Cervantes - 6
Hilde - 3
Ivy - 5
Kilik - 5
Lizardman - 5
Maxi - 7
Mina - 8
Mitsu - 5
Night - 7
Raph - 7
Rock - 7
Setsu - 4
Sieg - 6
Sophi - 5
Taki - 6
Talim - 7
Tira - 5
Voldo - 4
Xiang - 5
Yoshi - 5
Yun - 6
Zasa - 7

So, what's wrong and why ?
I personnaly don't agree with Tira's match up.
But the one who help to decide in the end was ELAZUL men !
ELAZUL IS GOD LIKE ah ah ah

You know the place, we're waiting for you.


Ps:
I personnally wanna thx Vincent, cause thx to him our matchup chart lives once again.
This topic was really usefull to revive some French players. You're the best. Thx.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

btw Vincent is the best troll I've ever seen, hats off

I personnally wanna thx Vincent, cause thx to him our matchup chart lives once again.

Thanks, and you're welcome.

Go team!

 

[Belial]

Malek awwww, your PM is full!!!
I dont want to think/discuss to much about calibur but I cant ignore your post as well

Astaroth - 5
Cassandra - 6
Cervantes - 6
Hilde - 3
Ivy - 5
Kilik - 5
Lizardman - 5
Maxi - 7
Mina - 8
Mitsu - 5
Night - 7
Raph - 7
Rock - 7
Setsu - 4
Sieg - 6
Sophi - 5
Taki - 6
Talim - 7
Tira - 5
Voldo - 4
Xiang - 5
Yoshi - 5
Yun - 6
Zasa - 7

I wont go into details but I think Match vs Taki, Asta, Setsu, hilde, Lizardman is better by 1
MAtch vs Tira and Voldo is better by 2

Taki just cant win vs Amy at ALL, cant punish anythign. she has good step thats all. Amy great TC, aGI overall power too much for take

Asta is too slow, 3BA, 66BA all problem for astaroth. Amy gets much advantage in mindgames against such a slow char. Asta cant space Amy. Cant step punish etc. Cant punish 2B+K but with a throw ... thats not enough! Throws are troublesome for amy, but asta has no good mid to make reward good enough against amy. so she gets more than enough KD easily every round. and getting out from KD for asta is impossible.

Setsu - if she had better step it would be favorable. Amy can both step and pressure better. I feel this match is equal but Setsu has the drawback of executing. In real game, where its already tight one execution mistake adds more confusion where its already hard to withstand amy pressure. And more pressure lead to more execution mistakes.

Amy perfectly fit to play vs hilde. She can react with aGI same way as Kilik does (its hard but possible) great at spacing, great at pressuring hilde. (She cant C2A off the ground). If there are characters that are not terrible against Hilde its Amy (and those who dont get doom comboed like asta)

Lizardman - why is it 5???? cant punish anything, terrible at everything. Lizard is crap!!! Amy beats him at everything at any range!!!

Tira
Dunno about tira, actually, but what makes this 5??? Tira has all that weaknesses most low tiers have. Except range of her basic moves everyting else is not good. Yes she has that GS aGI but there are not many moments to use that. So I think she should just quicky suck and make way for real gothic girl.

Voldo - cant punish at all (im sure its impossible to punish 2B+K with 6:6B outside of practice mode), cant step etc etc. Amy can even punish his 6:6B.... she steps everything, he cant even force her to duck, she can freely mix him up and has more range. So how is voldo supposed to win???

 

[thugish_pond]

I agree with voldo having a disadvantage, but he can punish 2b+k with FC 3B.

 

[Nukleurfire]

How is Amy still top tier after Belial's amazing anti-Amy guide? :3

Aren't all the Amys too busy crying to prevent other players from winning world cup?

 

[dittO]

I've been reading your discussion here and it's quite interesting.
I think, as malek said, this french matchup chart is based apparently on the french players' character choices.
Since there are no notable french Amy players (I don't want to offend any french Amy player, but this is what I've been reading so far) it's understandable that they may not have a 100% idea of what this character is fully capable of.

Personally, I think (as most people from what I read), that Amy is the second best character in the game after Hilde. Amy can take full advantage of some of the most basic mechanics of the game very easy and with minor risks.

- Stepping against Amy is always a nice strategy. However, even this appears to be risky because her 33B (If I remember correctly) covers her weak side. Her 33B has amazing properties as we all know.
- Her WR moves are not very good. BUT while crouching she can still use her 6BB or 66B, whenever they are needed to punish something of course.
- Her "invisible" low moves, may be punishable, but I'd NEVER suggest to anyone to duck against Amy.
- In terms of damage she's ok, but with this mixup game she would be completely broken If she had more damage. However, she has many ways to actually LAND damage on any opponent.
- Her CF game is definitely above average.
- She may be somewhat a bit susceptible to throws. Some characters with good stepping abilities AND good throw range may cause her some problems. However, I don't think you can take her down just by grabbing her.

Finally, I should add that Amy is very effective when played simple and with basic mixups. But she can also be played with a bit more risks and be even deadlier. A+B, B+K, A+K are some of her moves that may be a bit riskier, but with correct use can payback well.

 

[malek]

Ok.

This subject had land to lots of discution that I want to share here, in order to be more accurate
(cause it looks like it's not the case right now)

We planned to change some match up like Setsuka vs Ivy for example, Or Sophitia vs Nightmare but I'm going to talk about that here. Only Amy. So, based on Belial proposition:

Amy vs:

Taki 7-3
Right now. No one talked about this one. Taki players are not very present on our forums...
So, this is probably going to change this way. No one seems to be able to argue for or against for this match up.

Asta 6-4
We are just waiting for Saitoh agreement, cause most agree.

Setsuka 5-5
No answer from Maxou yet. But most disagree right now. So this is not going to change from the current 4-6.
Amy cannot deal with Setsuka's range. Setsuka's damage are so much stronger than Amy's one.
She has some tools like 4A, A+K A or A+K B who beats most of Amy move. So she cannot pressure without high risk.
She can punish everything, and she can punish very well. Amy's ground game is her only chance to win.
How ever it is strong and effective, and Setsuka can just guess in order to avoid it.

Hilde 4-6
I'm the only one who answer on this point (no one care about this character now that she is banned)
I don't agree at all.
Amy can react with aGi but the difference come from the fact that Kilik's Asura is a mid. So if Kilik made the wrong choice, a mid will still come.
Hilde will not be able to punish, or at least she has to guess if it's Asura 1 hit ou Asura 2 hit + timing with or without delay. Against Amy, if she do B+K when Hilde don't C3A or C3B (and this is going to happen) she will die and there is anything to do to avoid this.
She cannot pressure Hilde AT ALL. 6BB, throw, 3B, 33B, 66B will all loose to C3A and 1A, throw, 2B+K will loose to 7K.
So C3A or 7K + whiff punish, That's all Hilde has to do to win.
Ok on the ground, Hilde is in the same trouble as any other character. But there is on point very different with all the others, if Hilde make the roight choice on wake up, she'll instant kill Amy. Amy HAS TO made the right choice for ever, cause she only has to miss one to loose the round. Wake up 8G, or wake up + step. Hilde only need one guess, Amy needs more.
Of course, it's a different story on closed map. That's my opinion.

Lizardman 6-4
Lot's of different opinion about Lizardman...
It's difficult to choose with all this different proposition...

Tira 7-3
Same here. But I think the same than Belial about Amy vs Tira.
How ever, other players thinks she can deal with her, espescially in GS.
GS 2A beats most of Amy's mid range options. 6K is the move to abuse against Amy cause it beats lows, high and throws.
+ she can punish + she has some good TJ move + GS 666K beats most of Amy's mid range move too.
Personnaly I don't really agree except about 6K cause her punishment are weak, her TJ beats most of Amy's move but deal so weak damage that she's not gonna win with this + if she is not in GS but in JS (which is going to happen 50% of the time) she looses most of her usefull tool. And 6K don't deal with Amy's 33B, so she can't escape Amy's ground game.
I agree that Tira is strong enough to deal (stronger than most people think) with many character, but not with Amy.
But that's just my opinion.

Voldo 6-4
Thuggish + Belial said the same thing. Which is hard to said the contrary..
But, I'll try cause that's the result of our discutions. We currently talked about 4-6 or 5-5 but no less...
-On the ground, Amy is smaller than most of the cast, so Voldo can pressure with some specific pressure game (Landfish B AND/OR 2A+B cancel 2A+B which is an all side tech trap, ). So, against Amy Voldo ground game can be as powerfull as Amy's one.
-Amy's 3BA can be punished with 44[K]B + in case Amy only use 3B it's not over, she still has to guess right
-2B+K can be punished with 6:6B. When the Voldo player decide to duck, the only reason for this is to block a low or avoid a high and then punish with 6:6B. So he can prepare himself for this move the moment he decide to duck. It is possible.
+ FC 3B can also punish (as said thuggish) in case it's enough to kill Amy.
-Voldo's range game is much better than Amy's one. Same with throw range. In order to throw Amy's has to be very close, which is not the case for Voldo. Voldo cannot really step well Amy's 33B or 66A+B, but he also has some great move with range, and lots of damage.
-In order to punish Voldo's 1A (both 1A and BS 1A), Amy has to punish thoose -16 moves with 6:6B which is i16.
In order to punish Amy's 2B+K which is -18, Voldo has to use 6:6B which is i16.
It's more easy for Voldo than for Amy.

That's all.
If some one can give his opinion about his or that. I appreciate.
If you think they are more things to talk about / explain, I'll be happy to do so.
THX

 

[AMillionHP]

I've met this matchup chart recently and from the moment i seen her i was hooked. I had no idea she was outrageous till i asked her she looks so dam outrageous like 8-2 matchups all over the place with Cassandra being better than Amy. I have no idea how to approach matchup chart i really lucked up one night we were alone at work breaking down matchups in general and she told me she was divorced and single and turns out she's into younger guys not too mention i'm good looking.

So long story short we exchanged numbers and i invited her and her son over for BBQ. Things are starting to heat up but i find myself messing up at times because of the age difference.

Lol hilarious. Hope things work out for you and that match-up chart. But you forgot to say it's 39 years old.

 

[Belial]

ok a short answer
maybe I'll rec a video responce if i buy tv tuner sometime later
but now.
About hilde - your point make sense, but I disagree b/c most characters are MUCH worse than Amy (almost all of them) against hilde. In fact, she is best outside of kilik and chars that doom doesnt combo on. But she still gets 3-7 just like most other characters. Thats not right imo. I think Cassandra, sophitia, talim, yun are all worse than amy. If I had a choice I wouldnt doubt of picking Amy instead any of those not for a second. So thats my problem with ranking. Either change it for others or improve for amy. It doesnt work other way. And Hilde is the kind of character 9-1 is actually REAL.

Voldo. Ahriman made many points in his post. I dont really understand whats the big deal with 2A+B since its mostly used on wakeup. If you try to spam it cancel on guard, this can be GI'ed with anticipation. Theres many stuff you can try do about it. its not big deal if char cant roll it, at least not that big to make it a major factor or matchup deciding.
If you can punish with 6:6B consistantly - OKAY. But unless you do this on someone like Thuggish I wont believe it. Its easy to do this technical stuff on tresto when he's predictable, but good amy will move around change timings etc put lots of pressure on you. It is theoretically possible to punish with 11BA with mitsu, thats much better than FC 1B , but I dont do it- why? BC ITS IMPOSSIBLE for me. If you can do it okay means you're better than me against amy no doubt.
edit: I just want to clarify this. To me any punishment that requires you not reacting to animation of move+blockstun is not reliable. To do 66B you need anticipation and mashing punisher when you block "something", not 2B+K. This kind of concentration is possible as a last ditch effort when you need to turn the game around with big dmg, but not reliable/deterrent otherwise.

3BA punishment. blah blah. not happening again. I just dont want to start on this. Once again - even if you do it (which is harder than yoshi pogo punish which also aint happening) it is also unsafe, amy has mindgame advantage on offence (any char has) if you hope to outguess her - okay. In my book - thats just giving her extra KD opportunity.

More facts

Voldo step sucks.
Voldo is hevaily steppable with amy.
Voldo is not better at range (who did come up with this?)
Amy throws are not weak. Actually they are REALLY good b/c they KD and create wake up. If you think otherwise, you're wrong. Also doesnt voldo spend a lot of time in BT so doesnt that means disadvantage (even if slight) compared to other characters vs Amy?
Voldo "powerful" throws are steppable. Too bad, any char whose throws are steppable is not good vs amy in my book, b/c simple 33B step 33B turns out into a nightmare to deal with.

I wanted to write much more but I hope I get to make a vid sometime soon. if not ,maybe I'll post more detail later.

 

[LP]

I just want to thank you all for starting this discussion up again. I really, quite honestly, do like reading stuff like this.

 

[babalook]

this is actually one of the better threads to be on 8wayrun in a while

 

[malek]

Cannot answer about Voldo right now cause I'm not the only one to talk about that.
All I can say is 6:6B is theoritically possible. Because no one use it don't means it's not possible.
Before to see Kura's Talim or Omega's Zasalamel noone could believe the strength of these characters.
But it was there.



About Hilde,
If your only problem is comparison with Talim, Cassy, Sophi then I'll explain.
About Yunsung, I dont agree with this 7-3 too. But I'm not alone to decide.

Talim cannot be DOOMed combo that easily than all the other characters.
Why ? Because most of her usefull move against Hilde are jump move, wich not allow hilde to use her C3B DOOM combo.
She can still use C3A DOOM combo but that's all.
+ Talim has some good kick, low or mid which are strong againt step.
So she can jump to avoid C3B and kick to avoid C3A.
She also has fast enough move, do deal with Hilde + some RO option from jump move.
But that alone is not enough for 7-3.
The true point is, Hilde cannot create range against Talim because of her forward jump which always puts her at close range.
And at close range, DOOM combo will whiff from time to time on small character (Taki, Amy and Talim).
+ When Hilde step one of Talim jump, her C3A or C3B will hit Talim from one side or from her back.
No DOOM COMBO in these case on Talim. Of course, whiff = death. But not if Talim jump.

Cassandra
On Open Map, Cassandra can play the same game than Hilde. She can just move on the map waiting for a whiffed charge or a whiffed throw and then use her own doom combo with 236 236 ...
Cassandra is also the only character in the game who can punish FC C3BBA with 6B wich is very good.
She has FC 1B + 1A who are both fast enough and TC enough to avoid C3A.
Hilde cannot jump these move without high risk cause 236 will catch her during jump for Cassy Doom Combo.
And Hilde cannot really punish 236 (of course she can, but not punish by DOOM).
Still, it's Hilde. 236 can be stepped, FC 1B too, 1A can be jumped, etc...
Hilde will have many more opportunity to kill Cassandra with one move, but Cassandra can have some too.

Sophitia
TAS goes under C3A and punish it for half life + it cannot be auto Gied (same for 236B).
Sophitia auto-Gi is stronger than Amy's one (but weaker than Asura) cause she can deal plenty of damage and pressure Hilde on wake up with 4B (the only way to pressure Hilde without risk) or she can RO her with it.
Whiff moved or ducked throw against Hilde = death. Same against Sophi = half life.
Hilde's step is the key here, cause she can basically step everymove of Sophitia.

Yunsung
I have no idea at all...
I remember some one talked about his stance ah ah
No really, I can't remember why it's only 7-3 against Yunsung.