Street Fighter 4!

eltoshan said:
Gief should be higher, he's pretty dominant against non-shotos.
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Shotos aren't even the problem for him. It's that he only outright beats a few of the top and upper mid characters...Sim, Rufus, Gouken, Bison, and that's about it. Gief vs. Sagat and Seth are two of the most lopsided matchups in the whole game. And from what I hear, the Japanese now think Boxer beats him and Viper goes even.

Really, I wouldn't trust a lot of the matchup charts out there in general. Viper is widely considered top-tier now, but you wouldn't know from looking at eventhubs. The console chart is especially problematic because:

1. Japan doesn't play console seriously. This is also why gootecks and his fans are full of shit when they say Seth and Gouken are banned there...they don't run console tournaments in the first place, so it's not like this issue would ever come up.

2. It's taken from a wiki.

Anyway, Sim is sort of the opposite in this regard. He doesn't look as good in a matchup chart, but he beats Sagat and Seth and has no extremely bad matches. And one of the matches he does lose is to a character almost nobody plays...Fuerte. You have a better chance of winning a tournament with Sim alone than with Gief alone, basically.

And speaking of Fuerte, I have him in mid here because he beats Sim and Seth and also has no major counter characters.

In short, all matchups are not equal, and that's what I'm trying to reflect here. Beating Sagat 5.5/4.5 is more important in a tournament than beating Abel 8/2.
 
rashreflection said:
Shotos aren't even the problem for him. It's that he only outright beats a few of the top and upper mid characters...Sim, Rufus, Gouken, Bison, and that's about it. Gief vs. Sagat and Seth are two of the most lopsided matchups in the whole game. And from what I hear, the Japanese now think Boxer beats him and Viper goes even.
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this is the 1st SF that i've played since '95 so i am not very good but i main geif and the sagat is MEGA tough. tiger shot is too fast
 
are there any other fight pads out there other than the MadCatz one?

i heard it doesnt' work most of the time...

i need reviews from you guys on the fight pad... thanks
 
lol...main geif...lol...

but rash.. TECHNICALLY seth is even a shoto though.... so it IS shotos that beat on geif.
but yea... look at viper.. part of the reason she's moved up so much is because of her match-up with sagat. The tiers are based in part on WHO the match-up is against. Completely agree with ya.

BUT... you should mention it as a "tourney list" so ppl understand it better from your point of view....

but even then I don't agree with fuerte. If it IS a tourny list... nobody uses him.. so he gets to stay in his "piece of gimmicky trash" tier. Sim goes down a tier... I don't care that he won one tourney a while ago and that he does well against sagat. He doesn't deserve a top tier "position." I'm iffy if gouken should drop a tier..if so he'd be the best in that other tier though. ken should move up a tier. abel is NOT that low.... but the top 12 (really fewer though....) are the only ones that matter anyway though for tier list.. That and make sure to throw dan in "super loser" spot lol.
 
rashreflection said:
Shotos aren't even the problem for him. It's that he only outright beats a few of the top and upper mid characters...Sim, Rufus, Gouken, Bison, and that's about it. Gief vs. Sagat and Seth are two of the most lopsided matchups in the whole game. And from what I hear, the Japanese now think Boxer beats him and Viper goes even.
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The Gief vs Viper match is even 5/5 , then it becomes a painful 7/3 Gief match. Hence, why Viper's role in that match is to not let Gief in and stay the fuck away.

All in all, I honestly don't know what tier list to pay attention to. All I know is, I really don't think Viper is top contrary to what Tougeki's Feb tier list suggested. Yes she does well against Sagat (by well I mean it's an even match up) but Dictator, Honda, and Gief can rape her bad. Blanka was believed to be a bad matchup for her as well (though I don't really agree considering she can punish all of Blanka's shit).

Arcadia's June issue listed her B tier (from a list which ranged from S ~ E tier), which I think is more sensible.
 
Most of us use sticks, because they're undoubtedly better than pads. If you can't afford a decent stick, then you're better off using a PS3/360 pad and saving up for one over wasting money on a fight pad. I've heard complaints binding issues before, so don't use those if you do get one.
 
i agree 100% with ^^^ . While a fight pad is all good and nice.. what are they.. like.. 40 dollars or so? Add 30-40 dolalrs and you can get a stick of some kind..which will be much better than teh pad. For the price you should just save those 40-50 dollars you'd be spending on a overpriced fighting game controller and use your current xbox controller or ps3 controller. They aren't THAT BAD... its jsut the stick is THAT GOOD..lol. I currently play on a xbxo controller cuz I'm a hobo because rent is 700, food is 300 a month, and paying to keep the hookers i call "girlfriends" happy it costs.. WHO KNOWS how much..lol. With being a full time student that doesn't leave a lot of room for alcohol (thats not in food money...) and videogames.

If I'm gonna buy a stick its gonna be a 200 dollar one... maybe I'll get one for a b-day present... who knows..lol. I'm pretty lucky about getting good presents from GF's so maybe I'll get one..lol. Point is... pads aren't worth it compared to a stick. And I heard the madcats pad has had some issues with it, where once it was thought to be uber good.
 
40-50 bucks for a shiny looking Genesis controller? To me thats overpriced. But I also find the reg controllers insanely overpriced anyway ... so it might just be simple bias on that part..lol.
 
eh... thanks for the input guys but i think im going with a pad anyways...

I never liked the feeling of sticks and never will... plus i heard the D-pad on there is ALOT better than PS3's D-pad.
 
PANDA510 said:
eh... thanks for the input guys but i think im going with a pad anyways...

I never liked the feeling of sticks and never will... plus i heard the D-pad on there is ALOT better than PS3's D-pad.
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I just use the analog stick, seems to be better than a pad, and (for me) better than a stick.
 
If you use pad in SF4, you're just gonna have to learn to live with fucking up your commands. Overlapping in the inputs and a loose buffer window, combined with the D-Pad's tendency to kind of mush inputs together, is going to give you constant EX SRK's instead of ultras, SRK instead of fireball, etc etc.

If you use pad in SF4 you're just gimping yourself, plain and simple. You can get away with it in 3d games, but not here. If you hate stick so much that you're willing to put up with that, then go for it. Just know that no amount of practice is ever gonna fix these input errors.
 
Protip: Don't rely on binds in SF4. Even if you're stuck with a 360 pad, go and turn them off like I do. Then you Seth players should be able to relax about always doing teleport instead of EX Shoryuken...
 
This was one of the reasons i hated this game... i don't like sticks at all. But, for some reason this game is so touchy on the inputs. In SC i'm like 99% accuracy on inputs. SF4, i couldn't get shit off that i wanted or when i wanted to(like 70%). I got that "mushing" effect from the PS pad, and it just doesn't affect my SC4 inputs, so... wtf.
 
That's because SC inputs =/= SF inputs.

The majority of SC inputs are far more simpler than SF and they mostly revolve around holding a single direction while hitting a button. SF inputs revolve around doing direction motions while hitting a button. Hence why SC is a hell of a lot easier to play on pad than SF and why SF is best played on an arcade stick.
 
ShinobiBrown said:
That's because SC inputs =/= SF inputs.

The majority of SC inputs are far more simpler than SF and they mostly revolve around holding a single direction while hitting a button. SF inputs revolve around doing direction motions while hitting a button. Hence why SC is a hell of a lot easier to play on pad than SF and why SF is best played on an arcade stick.
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I'm going to have to disagree a little bit there. I main sophie, and that is "direction motion" and hitting buttons, or think of Ivy's command throw, Killiks stances, and so on. Not to mention all of SF's inputs are like 236, 236236, or 214 and so on. I just think the sensitivity is much higher or something.
 
Psylocide said:
I'm going to have to disagree a little bit there. I main sophie, and that is "direction motion" and hitting buttons, or think of Ivy's command throw, Killiks stances, and so on. Not to mention all of SF's inputs are like 236, 236236, or 214 and so on. I just think the sensitivity is much higher or something.
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Of course, there are few exceptions (Angel Step, Twilight/Dawn Haze, ect). However, the majority of the SC's move list revolves around what I stated. The move lists in the game for every character pretty much proves it.

You're doing qcf, qcb, 360s, and TK motions far more frequent in SF than you are in SC.
 
ShinobiBrown said:
Of course, there are few exceptions (Angel Step, Twilight/Dawn Haze, ect). However, the majority of the SC's move list revolves around what I stated. The move lists in the game for every character pretty much proves it.

You're doing qcf, qcb, 360s, and TK motions far more frequent in SF than you are in SC.
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Yes i definately agree that in SF you are doing those motions all the time... that's all there is. But, i still think that there is something different about the sensitivity of the inputs. It just seems like any little pad twitch or anything registers in SF where SC is a little more forgiving? I mean, it was very noticable for me. That may be because my pad is getting mashed up though.
 
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