Talim vs. the rest of the SC4 cast

Sounds a bit like you may have been abusing AS a little too much. AS variations are good and all for continuing your assult and countering some mids/lows, but they are very punishable and they usually don't reach far enough anyway. On top of that, it seems like your friends have figured out how to hit her out of her AS.

There's nothing wrong with simply making your way in slowly. Unfortunately, Asta's a tough one, but Mina should be fine... Not much help, I know. lol Just... don't get frustrated over her range.
 
Astaroth can be dealt with, but the main problem is the huge difference in damage. Sometimes the Talim can outplay Asta for the whole match only to lose in like 3 moves. Ducking/Breaking throws is important, as is WCing to Talim's right to avoid his verticals, knee, and bullrush. Online... well that's a different matter entirely.

Ivy? While it's not impossible, I'm of the opinion that there's hardly any weakness to this character that Talim can exploit. You just better pray that you're better than the Ivy player, or can guess right more times than they can. 22K works pretty well up close though.

Online Ivy? She's unbelievable. When slight frame loss causes you to miss high damage punishes on her, it's pretty much over. Ivy can just attack constantly with little fear of lack of safety. They don't even have to be good with her to beat even the best Talims.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Sometimes the Talim can outplay Asta for the whole match only to lose in like 3 moves.

Ivy can just attack constantly with little fear of lack of safety. They don't even have to be good with her to beat even the best Talims.
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My sentiments exactly. It's not like I can't beat Asta, it's just that when what you described up there actually happens, it's so frustrating.

And as for facing Ivy online, I think I've decided RANDOM is better for me than using Talim. It's pretty bad when you think any character is going to be more effective that your main.
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I'd think you would WANT to use Talim when facing off characters who you have trouble with, so you can get some practise off of them.

In terms of the two characters that you've mentioned, I have a much easier time with Ivy than with Asta. It's still a case of "you either get a perfect, or be perfected", but Ivy players tend to abuse whip mode quite a lot when they see a character like Talim. In my experience, that's when you usually get your hits in. Step and walk/AS into her. Sword mode's a little harder imo, but backstep (+WL) usually does the trick.
 
SW 6, SW 8B/CL 8gB, & WP 3A, are probably the 3 biggest problems for Talim. (WP 3A is just good in general...). Also, once you fight Ivy's who can seemlessly transition into stances from the ground, while attacking/being attacked, during blockstun, and during throw animations, it becomes really hard to distinguish what stance she's in and when.

Talim can win against Ivy, but you have to be extremely precise. Even when at advantage, refrain from attacking too much (unless you know the other players habits) because CL 214B is her escape move. You want to catch her using it at disadvantage so you can block it and punish with 236B/4BB. Just watch for setups much like with countering X's 44B.

Same goes for CS and SS. Watch for setups. There's always a brief pause at some point before the throws come out. The best Ivy players are the ones who can mask this buffering period almost completely, but remember she can't chain the throw immediately after attacking.

Rolling on the ground, Using CL A+B and cancelling, Using a single B in SW, or after landing a shakeable stun, are a few examples of intelligently using buffering times. SS is harder to see than CS, because of CS's unique grab animation and the JF flash if they do the JF. But conversely, it's easier to tell when Ivy's in WP stance than in CL/SW transitions. Talim has a lot of TJs, anyway, and her 2A is nice, so you may even avoid these moves unintentionally at times.

If the match turns into a poking contest, (which with higher level players this matchup usually does...) Ivy wins out due to range and damage. That's when you have to be smart about picking your spots. Don't get greedy with +frames, BUT take advantage of every major damage opportunity when you see it.

I personally think Talim has harder matches than Ivy, it's just hard to play Talim like you would against others, because of Ivy's well roundedness.
 
MasudSabr said:
I'd think you would WANT to use Talim when facing off characters who you have trouble with, so you can get some practise off of them.

In terms of the two characters that you've mentioned, I have a much easier time with Ivy than with Asta. It's still a case of "you either get a perfect, or be perfected", but Ivy players tend to abuse whip mode quite a lot when they see a character like Talim. In my experience, that's when you usually get your hits in. Step and walk/AS into her. Sword mode's a little harder imo, but backstep (+WL) usually does the trick.
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Good advice.
I don't know. Ivy seems to prevent me from getting anywhere near her.
I forgot who I was playing that made me realize this, but it was a damn solid Ivy. The problem with evading with the wind leap for me, is I can't attack out of it. Whenever I try, I get stopped every time. WL to high attacks, to low, anything I try get's stopped by her.

I do get what you're saying about WANTING to use Talim against the characters that I have trouble with.
I did just that last night, against Asty. But I'm the opposite of you, I think I have a better chance against Asta than Ivy.

Asty has no bait for me. Ivy reels me in everytime some how..
 
So since the other Soul Arenas are doing this type of matchup chart thing... does anyone have anything to add as far as rankings for matchups? Or does anyone else who knows the matchups disagree with the rankings that were given by either myself, or Jaxel?

Discuss.
 
^^ the reason I didn't contribute to any of that is I don't think it's going to get anywhere.
There's an infinite amount of arguments that can be brought up... and they already have been.

I'm sure you understand. Interesting idea, too bad there's no SCIV GOD that can just tell us the absolute matchup scores.
 
What do you guys think of Talim vs Rock? Not asking for a ranking here specifically, just if there's anyone who has played this matchup a lot, what are your thoughts? Anything in particular to keep an eye out for?
 
Very easy match up in my opinion. Her speed easily interrupts his moves (which are pretty bad already). Only thing to look out for are his chain throws off the ground and in the air.
 
in the air? he can set up chain throws when you're in the air you mean? I'm confused.

I've always felt Talim had an edge in this match, but since I don't play anyone who mains him consistently I couldn't say for sure. If he had an air throw like Astaroth it might be a little bit worse, since most of his throw mixups can be thwarted by any one of her TJ moves.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
in the air? he can set up chain throws when you're in the air you mean? I'm confused.

I've always felt Talim had an edge in this match, but since I don't play anyone who mains him consistently I couldn't say for sure. If he had an air throw like Astaroth it might be a little bit worse, since most of his throw mixups can be thwarted by any one of her TJ moves.
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Yea, i didn't mean any chain throws in the air. Its just the throw from the floor throws you back into the air. Nevertheless, his throw game is his main asset and if you have experience against astaroth then rock shouldn't be a problem.
 
I've been watching Eclair's games with Kong (who plays Rock), and it doesn't seem like he'd give Talim a hard time...

Played a good Talim today. We were both playing recklessly and making the screen spin around non-stop... it was heaps fun. Though at the end for the sake of winning, I had to BB my way through, which killed the fun a bit :T
 
I don't think many people here are all that big into matchup rankings, but I'll list them again just in case for easier reference.

Algol – 1:9
Amy – 4:6
Apprentice – not sure
Astaroth – 4:6
Cassandra – 4:6
Cervantes – 4:6
Darth Vader – not sure (Oofmatic says 6:4 Vader, but neither of us have much experience in the match)
Hilde – 4:6
Ivy – 3:7
Kilik – 3:7
Lizardman – not sure
Maxi – 5:5
Mitsurugi – 4:6
Nightmare – not sure
Raphael – 4:6
Rock – 6:4
Seong Mi-Na – 4:6
Setsuka – 4:6
Siegfried – 4:6
Sophitia – 4:6
Taki – 4:6
Talim – 5:5
Tira – 5:5
Voldo – 3:7
Xianghua – 4:6
Yoda – not sure
Yoshimitsu – 4:6
Yun-Seong – 5:5
Zasalamel – not sure

that's a lot of 4:6s... poor Talim.
 
i say its about 5:5 with vader, just from experience, anyway rock is the only one at disadvantage? damn....
 
She may have something over Yoda as well, I just don't know the matchup. Tira is another story, I put 5:5 as the compromise between my earlier thoughts (6:4 Talim) and the Tira SA people thinking it's 6:4 Tira.

I talked to the people in Rock's SA and they believe that it's also 5:5 for the most part. Most of them believe Rock's spacing and 6K help to give him an edge against her transitions, but after doing a bit of testing I realized that those things end up being gambles depending on which transition she uses. So for now it'll stay as is.

This isn't the finalized thing anyway since Jaxel and whoever else wants to go through them all themselves after numbers are decided.

I feel like 5:5 with Vader as well, but I've faced few of them that knew what they were doing. I played Oof's Vader only twice online. He beat me both times, but it came down to the wire both times, so that's not anything to go off of. Not to mention it was online anyway.

I've also played this guy SkyRaizen online who has a good Apprentice. I think this could be fairly even as well, but I'd need more experience (offline specifically) to truly say.
 
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