The One True SCV Tier List/Character Discussion Thread

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Infernum said:
On paper
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Not just on paper. aB slide completely wrecks everyone that can't punish. Whiff punishing with iGDR isn't that hard, his aGI's really help him with certain match-ups and 4B BE is one of the most broken stuff in the game IMO.
 
WhYYZ said:
Not just on paper. aB slide completely wrecks everyone that can't punish. Whiff punishing with iGDR isn't that hard, his aGI's really help him with certain match-ups and 4B BE is one of the most broken stuff in the game IMO.
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I still don't know for good Cervy players except Shen Chan.
 
Why is Astaroth not topping tier lists? Not saying he is the best, and I main Raph - so I have warped perceptions, but it seems that his 66K and combo potential allow him to have skewed risk/reward.

I would say my S tier looks something like:

Viola, Astaroth, Cervantes, Gloomy Tira

My reasoning is that not only do these characters rock the Casbah (no matter how little the Shareef don't like it,) but they have something that some weaker characters also have, the ability to just DO stuff. If, for instance you are Ivy;you are a very strong character, but your ability to just plain old throw some stuff out is not as strong as some of the higher tiers.

I think tiers should take into account:

Can a character throw out free moves / mix-ups?
Can a character kill in one guess? (200+ combo. Ivy/aPat/Viola/Asta/Tira/Hilde etc etc)
Can a character enable the players reactions to punish strongly? (aGI/stab)
Can a character use similar looking moves with mix-up properties? (counter the above)
Can a character set up true 50/50s with a reward that beats the punish?

The game is played at top levels by very similar skill-levels, so I think the characters that can, dare I say it, brainlessly throw something out will have the edge. Of course the counter to this is that some matchups give free moves that other characters can punish, but I think this also explains why Pyrrha is so strong - she stops a lot of filler that people are used to.
 
Gloomy Tira is a character? Your S tier is gay.

Stop getting hit by stupid jank like fully charged Bull Rush. There's absolutely no reason he should be hitting you with that other than you let him. It probably wouldn't seem so scary if you didn't get stuck in PREP vs him lol. You can JG that on reaction, anyway.
 
Asta's slow, he has trouble dealing with a character sticking fast moves in his face since he can't really punish. Damage based off throws is inherently not guaranteed.
 
Zanaken said:
Why is Astaroth not topping tier lists? Not saying he is the best, and I main Raph - so I have warped perceptions, but it seems that his 66K and combo potential allow him to have skewed risk/reward.

I would say my S tier looks something like:

Viola, Astaroth, Cervantes, Gloomy Tira

My reasoning is that not only do these characters rock the Casbah (no matter how little the Shareef don't like it,) but they have something that some weaker characters also have, the ability to just DO stuff. If, for instance you are Ivy;you are a very strong character, but your ability to just plain old throw some stuff out is not as strong as some of the higher tiers.

I think tiers should take into account:

Can a character throw out free moves / mix-ups?
Can a character kill in one guess? (200+ combo. Ivy/aPat/Viola/Asta/Tira/Hilde etc etc)
Can a character enable the players reactions to punish strongly? (aGI/stab)
Can a character use similar looking moves with mix-up properties? (counter the above)
Can a character set up true 50/50s with a reward that beats the punish?

The game is played at top levels by very similar skill-levels, so I think the characters that can, dare I say it, brainlessly throw something out will have the edge. Of course the counter to this is that some matchups give free moves that other characters can punish, but I think this also explains why Pyrrha is so strong - she stops a lot of filler that people are used to.
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Viola is Viola.

Astaroth is extremely sluggish and at high level play that starts to really show. He is extremely rock paper scissors as Hates said before so he is typically either raping face or getting raped himself. Most of his massive damage comes from throws which are breakable. Other damage opportunities he has are CH 6B which is linear and i20 and then 22B BE which is extremely slow and hard to hit at neutral if the opponent is wary. He does not fit the third criteria because he cannot really punish, his immediate mix ups exist to open up big damage opportunities on his throws as for good mids he has bullrush and 4B and not much else has the speed or advantage to sustain a constant pressure.

Cervantes has a strong low at his disposal yes but it only really shines when the opponent is doing 20 things at once and sets him up to get CH, otherwise, normal hit 1AB is not too great on the reward. Again, search for what Hates' posted to get a better idea on the character breakdown. He gets great damage but he is not gonna win in one successful guess. He has aB for punishment but thats about it until he can launch, so for low pushback moves aB is phenonomal but when he has to deal with moves that have large pushback that are otherwise unsafe, he starts to struggle with punishment (pyrrha 3B comes to mind.)

You cannot really judge gloomy tira alone based on the fact that there is no way getting around being in Jolly, there are ways to reduce the time spent in it but you are gonna have to deal with it for some time.
 
It is good to note that a throw isn't 1 guess, it is two. You had to guess the opponent will be in a standing state (guess wrong and you get launched) and then you have to guess the opponent's throw break.
 
Alex.J said:
I notice you live in Cali. Wanna battle? My Gamertag is RolandKirk.
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When I get home net again+Live, I'll be sure to take you on(with my scrub-tier Mitsurugi). It'll be fun to see how my skills stack up against live competition!

Rocktopus said:
There is no way Siegfried is better than Cervantes. Nor would he be that low. He only has two bad match ups, which are Pyrrha and Natsu. Maybe a near flawless aPat, but.. aPat is kinda easier to aGI with Cerv.
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I agree that once you get him going, he can be quite a beast, but in my view it's getting him going that's the hard part for the average player. His best move, the Geo Da Ray, leaves him at an immense disadvantage when it's blocked, so he can only really shine when a player has experience, and can work their mindgames enough to make up for the easy to read nature of a lot of his moves
 
Koiyuki said:
I agree that once you get him going, he can be quite a beast, but in my view it's getting him going that's the hard part for the average player. His best move, the Geo Da Ray, leaves him at an immense disadvantage when it's blocked, so he can only really shine when a player has experience, and can work their mindgames enough to make up for the easy to read nature of a lot of his moves
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None of that matters. You don't base a tier list off of players (least of all AVERAGE players), you base them off the characters and what they can do with the tools they have. For example, why would anyone EVER be blocking iGDR? That's not a move you just throw out all willy nilly. That's a character being held back by a player and not the limitations of the character themselves.

I mean it's like saying "twister is really hard to do so that'll bump apat down on the list", but then Woahhzz goes and punish mitsu's 4B with a double twister. They will always find a way to surpass any barrier.
 
Blueboyb said:
Pat is a really good character. However one of his most used moves, 66b+k leaves him at an immense disadvantage when it's blocked, so he can only really shine when a player has experience, and can work their mindgames enough to make up for the easy to read nature of a lot of his moves
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I would be really salty...if that was the right notation for Silver Shadow (44B+K), Silver Shadow wasn't most viable as a Brave Edge, and Just Frame Sakura Twister wasn't Patsuka's best offensive tool
 
Koiyuki said:
I would be really salty...if that was the right notation for Silver Shadow (44B+K), Silver Shadow wasn't most viable as a Brave Edge, and Just Frame Sakura Twister wasn't Patsuka's best offensive tool
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I was referring to vanilla pat's 66b+k which is supposed to be used exclusively as a combo filler and is not supposed to be blocked by the opponent. Kind of like how iGDR should be used as a combo filler or whiff punisher exclusively. If used correctly iGDR is not supposed to be blocked.. which makes it's block frames kind of irrelevant.
 
It's been a while and my opinion on certain characters has changed.

Presenting my new and updated ultra super secret epic top-secret tier list of JUSTICE!:

S: Viola
S-: Alpha Patroklos
A+: Pyrrha, Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Algol, Natsu
A: Patroklos, Yoshimitsu, Maxi
A-: Pyrrha Omega, Nightmare, Astaroth*, Tira*, Aeon
B+ Siegfried, Xiba, Ivy, Hilde, Ezio*, Voldo
B: Leixia
B-: Raphael, Dampierre*
D+: ZWEI

* = Could be raised or lowered by one spot.
- Names are in no particular order
- This tier list incoporates realistic practial exceution barriers

In my opinion, difference between tiers in this game is not all too large. Balance is really good and all characters that are not named ZWEI should not have too much of a hard time time winning against other characters (Barring some of the other lower-tiered charachters of course, they have a couple bad MUs but nowhere near on the level of ZWEI MUS.)
 
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Blueboyb said:
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Everythings good, except for maybe Tira. Honestly, I know I'll get some form of disagreement, but I really think Tira just isn't that good. I know, I know, Shining Decopon came in and beat everyone etc but its been a while since then. Theres so much new information on this game now, and I think players then lost because 1: Obviously he was really good, and most importantly 2: No one knows the match up that well against her. You combine those two, and of course the character will look solid and everyone will say *Shes so strong*. The same thing would happen with ZWEI.

Koiyuki said:
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You know Cervantes has a lot more tools than just that just frame move...like... an unblockable cancel that leads into a BT B+K that can fully combo into 100+ damage right?
 
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