The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4. . .

Artilust

[10] Knight
Out of all the things that could be negatively said about Calibur 4, if Calibur 4.1 was released tomorrow that improved upon everything (hypothetically speaking) what would the general opinion be about the BIGGEST DOWNFALL regarding Soul Calibur 4?


I would say because of the new Soul Gauge the idea of defensive playing and turtling has been killed. Soul Calibur 4 rewards mindless bulldogging and aggression that takes a bit of the tactical edge away from the structure. Agree to disagree but I am whole-heatedly convinced.


So some, this is a good thing. To others, who are comfortable playing like that, and to a greater extent, characters who are lesser equipped for high-level gameplay. . ie .. particularly unsafe, this is bad news.


Often times I find myself playing the game, and before I know it I'm eating a critical finish. Not because I stood stoic holding G, but because in the process of whittling down my opponents life to the point where a standing A would end the match, my near full life gauge is dismissed at the hands of a well placed meaty attack that sends my armor flying and costing me the match.

I heard this a lot in the beginning days, but it all seemed to quickly die down. I have reason to believe this is still very much relevant tho, looking at the various "soul crush study" threads littered in the character forums. Not to say the entire game is now about getting a win any way you can, but I do believe that Soul Calibur (and not ONLY Soul Calibur but fighters in general) is/are doing away with the traditional "KO" in favor of flashier or more dramatic and interesting ways to finish the match.

This is why im slowly gravitating toward 2d gaming. No destructible environments that cause damage. No multi-tiered arenas . .etc. Im still warming up to the idea of ringing out, and Virtual Fighter came out HOW many years ago?


Im not flat out "hating" on critical finishers here, but what I am do is thinking deeper into how the critical finishers really affect the game. And the way the game is now played. Have you FELT your opponent TRYING to break your soul gauge in desperation? I dont like that. What happened to footsies? Calibur has even gone the route of being "combo-based" which rubs me the wrong way as well.


Some say that the pace of SC2 and 3 could get a bit dry with two equally skilled players causing time outs and draws, however, is SC2 still not toted as the best in the series?


The idea of having a variety of ways to go about playing a fighting game was an enticing element not too long ago, and now days it seems as if the new thing is to pullout all the stops just to win. You used to have your characters with heavy mindgame mixups, very stance oriented, rushdown/pressure, turtling, spacing. . now much of that takes second fiddle because of the new system, or plays in sync with the system instead of being #1. A system implemented into a game that REWARDS an aggressive player who eats many a counter hits and rushes to hit the opponent only to get knocked right back . .and a system that takes all that good guarding and anticipation, subliminally wearing down on the opponents tactics because no damage is being inflicted in vain, when they lose a match full with health because they did what you are SUPPOSED to do . .guard is something that makes me weary of what they may come up with next in games.


Or have I gone over the deep end?
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Blocking and turtling still works. You just have to do it less mindlessly. See what I did there?
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

I like the new system, turtles are boring. It's a lot more fun when people are offensive, it makes it more fast paced. Have you ever seen videos of two turtles going at it towards the end of the SC2 days.... freakin lame. Look at Guilty Gear, that game is extremely offensively oriented, and it's AWESOME.

I also think that by rewarding aggression, it kinda covers up some of the character imbalances. I think its becoming pretty clear that this is one of the most balanced Soul Calibur's since SC1.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

biggest downfall? weakass banhappy community

As for what you're talking about though, I actually somewhat feel it is the opposite. Due to (nearly) everyone's god awful frame data in this game and SEVERELY weakened damage and mixups across the board, I'd argue that this game is much more turtly than SC3. CF is a rarity ever since the patch, if you get CFed it's your own fault for not spacing better and knowing how to punish the opponent character.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

CF's are definitely the most noticeable change in SCIV and the biggest gameplay change to the series. Guard break and guard damage are not new to fighting games. In fact blocking can be very dangerous in Capcom games and various other 2D games since you mentioned 2D. Since 1.03 it's no longer possible to mindlessly get CF's since guard damage has been toned down or removed on most moves. I feel that when it does comes up, it comes at a time that makes sense.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

biggest downfall? weakass banhappy community

As for what you're talking about though, I actually somewhat feel it is the opposite. Due to (nearly) everyone's god awful frame data in this game and SEVERELY weakened damage and mixups across the board, I'd argue that this game is much more turtly than SC3. CF is a rarity ever since the patch, if you get CFed it's your own fault for not spacing better and knowing how to punish the opponent character.

Have you played Oof's Talim? ROTFL.

Thats my whole point. Spacing and "knowing how to punish" is a moot point when Sophitia can close the gap with 66B and then her 4B+K tech's high, does insane soul damage and is safe. These are instances when you have to anticipate a move to GI or else play defensively . . only you waiting for them to screw up can cost you the match.

You get me?


I must be the only person who'd rather have this game without them. They are like fatalities. Yuck!
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

the idea of defensive playing and turtling has been killed. Soul Calibur 4 rewards mindless bulldogging and aggression that takes a bit of the tactical edge away from the structure.

I don't get it. From my experience, its mindlessly bulldogging that will get you killed. Are you saying you'd just rather be able to block without fear getting CFed? It's still very possible to play defensively. Block, Step, GI. It's all there, you just have to be more precise instead of standing there absorbing hits forever.

I think the soulgauge was a great addition. Keeps things moving. If someone is gunning for a CF, that's strategy and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

This is pretty much the equivalent of saying that throws are cheap in street fighter. It mindboggles me how people think it is somehow an absolute truth that you should be able to block everything, and somehow being able to press the guard button makes you good at the game.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

I dont want to get pigeonholed into this notion that I just dont like CF because I cant guard forever. Im saying the likelihood of turtling as a method of playstyle is slightly overshadowed by the themes of pure aggression. Come on . .the signs are all there .. I mean every character int he cast has multiple just frame "fastest inputs".


As I look at these SC2 Finals from several years ago. . I couldnt imagine this in SC4. Cervantes vs Ivy at SC4 finals? PUH LEEASE. Its gonna be so much GI-ing and CFs. . .
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Thing's change. wowzomg! Deal with it. Defence is more about spacing, 8wr, and punishing than just blocking. If you're blocking and not getting any attacks in, then you'll get CF'd. If you're blocking and then punishing they'll stop doing the same moves or you'll win.

The only thing I'd like to change so hard is the armour breaks. Their impact is negligible, they ruin counter hits, and they make using custom characters and costumes pointless since after a couple rounds both players are often running around naked. Either get rid of them, or keep them in, change the cosmetics, and fix the counter hits.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

I'm not trying to argue with this, but I feel it should be stated: The developers literally intended to emphasize aggression over turtling with the CF system. That said, certain characters are horrible at it compared to others (Just compare Voldo to Nightmare, lol), making it almost a non-factor to their offensive game.

Edit: I second what Page said about custom characters. People never mention this when they talk about the games integrity, lol.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

This is pretty much the equivalent of saying that throws are cheap in street fighter. It mindboggles me how people think it is somehow an absolute truth that you should be able to block everything, and somehow being able to press the guard button makes you good at the game.

This is pretty much the equivalent to you not being able to read and comprehend.

Once again, directly quote me, dont make interpretations of what you think I mean. Guard breaking is for excessibe blocking, unblockables are for deers in headlights. .

Critical Finishers are for... not falling for six running A+B's????



PUH-LEEEEEEEEEASE
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Hai! Guess what? If you block six 66A+Bs and then punish them you're going to win the round before they get a CF. Hurfadurfa, let's be retarded more.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

I'm not trying to argue with this, but I feel it should be stated: The developers literally intended to emphasize aggression over turtling with the CF system. That said, certain characters are horrible at it compared to others (Just compare Voldo to Nightmare, lol), making it almost a non-factor to their offensive game.

Edit: I second what Page said about custom characters. People never mention this when they talk about the games integrity, lol.


EGGGGGZACTLY


This reminds me of Marvel 2. When everyone played with the capcom characters at first because they thought the cast was beasty(lol Ken, Sakura, Morrigan), until they realized their incredibly low stamina made them USELESS.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

This is pretty much the equivalent to you not being able to read and comprehend.

Once again, directly quote me, dont make interpretations of what you think I mean. Guard breaking is for excessibe blocking, unblockables are for deers in headlights. .

Critical Finishers are for... not falling for six running A+B's????



PUH-LEEEEEEEEEASE

Umm...and that contradicts my statement how? guard crush and unblockables are in general terrible tools against turtles anyways.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Hai! Guess what? If you block six 66A+Bs and then punish them you're going to win the round before they get a CF. Hurfadurfa, let's be retarded more.

Ill lock this thread if you tell me how you punish a safe guard crush!
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

Ill lock this thread if you tell me how you punish a safe guard crush!

Who's 66A+B are we talking about? Because I'll eat a pile of threads if you show me one that's safe on block, impossible to to see coming, and covers step.
 
The single BIGGEST downfall of Soul Calibur 4.

66A+B was just a notation. Do you want me to list guard crushes that pound on the soul gauge and are safe?


I believe it would be pretty pointless if thats what you want me to do. Seeing as you would say something to the effect of "that move is ___ frames" or "stepable on reaction" when in actuality Im only talking about the idea of rushdown discouraging turtling among some players. A well placed guard crush and thats your ass, guard it or get hit by it.


I didnt intend on people trying to prove my opinion wrong.

Step, interrupt, guard impact, spacing.

How clever.
 
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