The v1.03 Patch Discussion Thread

[Fuzion]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Yoshi's a:B+K 66B combo still hits off 33_99K launcher ;) booyah namco bitches... still got it... lol

66B is techable left in this combo, same as in the 3B combo (I just tested this specifically with the 33K launcher).

 

[Ravariel]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Tripp- sophie doesnt take the leader board online. As a matter of fact I dominate just about most online sophie players and I play sieg so she isnt broke.

Again: Online isn't the determining factor of the power of a character. Talim is amazing online... offline, notsomuch... same with Maxi. Trust me, once you play offline against someone who knows Siggy (or better yet, knows YOUR Siggy), you'll find yourself wondering why you can't do anything against her.

Now, I'm of the opinion that while she's very very good, she is not broken either. Cass, Yoshi, Mits, Cerv, and possibly the Lizard are all on a similar level. Everyone else is only a little behind them in utility... except Yoda, Vader, Apprentice, Rock and Tira, of course... but I digress.

 

[Rico]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Now, I'm of the opinion that while she's very very good, she is not broken either. Cass, Yoshi, Mits, Cerv, and possibly the Lizard are all on a similar level. Everyone else is only a little behind them in utility... except Yoda, Vader, Apprentice, Rock and Tira, of course... but I digress.

Leave Tira out of this.

She's most definitely not low tier. Solid mid character, she is. Everyone just sees that she's complicated and throws her to the wolves without seeing that she actually has PLENTY of good moves from both stances.

 

[sirkibble2]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Leave Tira out of this.

She's most definitely not low tier. Solid mid character, she is. Everyone just sees that she's complicated and throws her to the wolves without seeing that she actually has PLENTY of good moves from both stances.

I don't know... Tira is possibly the low of the middle tier. As observed and told, she thrives off CH. Her ground game and wakeup moves are good but when fighting a Mitsu or one of the sisters, the battle is finding open spots--she barely has any mixup game compared to them at least.

 

[ShinobiBrown]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I don't know... Tira is possibly the low of the middle tier. As observed and told, she thrives off CH. Her ground game and wakeup moves are good but when fighting a Mitsu or one of the sisters, the battle is finding open spots--she barely has any mixup game compared to them at least.

Being a Tira player I agree with this. I've made it a habit to bait moves so I can land CHs on opponents as that's where most of her damage spawns from. I also agree that her mixup options are poor compared to some of the other characters. However, that doesn't stop me from maining her.

I never really cared where people attempt to throw Tira on the tier listing. I've been hearing so many different opinions about her placing that I just stopped caring about it. I play and main her because I like her character and her play style the most out of the entire cast. Setsuka takes second.

Meanwhile, I'm really glad that Ivy's WP 6A+B no longer tracks like a mad man. Made no sense for a move like that to be able to track so well in the first place.

 

[Tiamat]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Raph is probably the worst character in the game now cause his BB has 0 tracking and he doesn't have a good alternative.
nightmare's oki game is now less variety, dull
algol was nerfed in fair fashion, as was ivy, so that is good

fun patch

 

[Ravariel]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Leave Tira out of this.

She's most definitely not low tier. Solid mid character, she is. Everyone just sees that she's complicated and throws her to the wolves without seeing that she actually has PLENTY of good moves from both stances.

Don't get me wrong... I love Tira. She's one of two chars I'm learning right now (only good with Taki and Sophie so far... working on Tira and Yoshi). I really dig her style and everything... but it's an uphill battle with her... because you have to work a LOT harder to get stuff with her... lots of baits and traps... many of which can backfire on a smart opponent. Her punishment out of block is laughable, her mixup, as others have said, is minimal... baiting into CH and B+K is really your best shot, and that's a hard tactic to use.

It's similar to why Setsuka is placed where she normally is: because of difficulty of use (granted the difficulty is for a different reason). Can she win? Absolutely... it just takes a lot more work to do so.

Raph is probably the worst character in the game now cause his BB has 0 tracking and he doesn't have a good alternative.

Was that sarcasm?

 

[Fuzion]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Anyone else finding that sieg's 3B is still pretty hard to escape? I was expecting to be able to block it easily based on reading the patch notes before I patched, but so far this "combo" still seems pretty solid.

 

[kPc]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Again: Online isn't the determining factor of the power of a character. Talim is amazing online... offline, notsomuch... same with Maxi. Trust me, once you play offline against someone who knows Siggy (or better yet, knows YOUR Siggy), you'll find yourself wondering why you can't do anything against her.

Now, I'm of the opinion that while she's very very good, she is not broken either. Cass, Yoshi, Mits, Cerv, and possibly the Lizard are all on a similar level. Everyone else is only a little behind them in utility... except Yoda, Vader, Apprentice, Rock and Tira, of course... but I digress.

lol dude I play offline and participate in tournaments. That last post was to prove what you said about online play, not to boast about my uber online skills =p
And I play good sophies and the only ones that give me trouble are the truly solid players.

fuzion- nah I find it easy as hell now. online its slightly difficult but offline its def easier

 

[Tiamat]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Was that sarcasm?

actually, no it wasn't

Anyone else finding that sieg's 3B is still pretty hard to escape? I was expecting to be able to block it easily based on reading the patch notes before I patched, but so far this "combo" still seems pretty solid.

hold 4G or 6G. holding G wont work. need direction. you will be able to block it every time. like they say, it's easy once you know how...

 

[Rico]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I know this is off topic in this thread but...

I think you guys are relying too much on baits and CHs in Tira's game. The only moves with her that I'm actively baiting for CH (and I don't even do them THAT much) are JS 2A,B and JS 6A,B, both of which are completely CH hit confirmable.

As for Block punishment, she has 44K which is i11, making her one of the few people that can punish moves with that little negative frames. In JS it does decent damage and in GS you get A LOT of free damage for an i11 punisher.

Tira actually has a very good poke game though most people don't even think to play her in that manor. Here are some good pokes (all are safe with the exception of JS 6K and JS 1B which can be punished by Amy's 6B,B and possible one or two other characters).

-JS_GS 6K Mid range tech jump mid that forces crouch.
-JS_GS 1B Fast mid poke that hits grounded and tracks step decently.
-JS_GS 2K Great low tick kick that leads to...
-JS_GS wsK Fast tech jump, tech crouch mid that stuns on CH in GS.
-GS 2A Doesn't whiff anymore (thanks patch!). Above average 2A.

Other moves you should be doing:

-JS_GS 3B -12 on block mid that gives good damage especially in GS
-JS_GS 1A -12 on block low that only Amy and few others can punish. Good damage.
-JS 66_99_33 A,A GREAT tech crouch whiff punisher that rings out well.
-JS_GS 44K One of the fastest punishers in the game and even better in GS.
-JS 2A LOW 2A that leads to a very easily CH confirmable second hit.
-GS 2A+B Long range,safe (I think) whiff punisher with good damage on hit/CH.


She has a bunch more decent moves but these are really the ones that stand out to me.

Stop fishing for CH with her and do some damage!

 

[sirkibble2]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I will agree that her poking game is definitely good. I have witnessed people be frustrated over her poking.

 

[ShinobiBrown]

The Patch Discussion Thread

Yes, I agree her poke game is good. I use many of the moves you mentioned. However, I still see CHs as a big part of her game as they all lead to the best damage she can deal.

I don't think her thriving off CH hinders her simply because of the damage she can deal off them plus her good poke game. The pokes add up and will sometimes cause the opponent to become impatient which will more than likely give you the opportunity to land the CH you wanted. /off-topic

I just noticed that from all the changes discovered so far, the apprentice didn't get a single nerf.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I imagine that Namco's primary focus was to create a fighting game that would have a wide enough appeal to be very profitable. The inclusion of online play is probably the most important element towards meeting that goal. Users can define the primary focus anyway that they see fit but that doesn't mean it parallels the developers intent. On any given day, there are more people playing SCIV online than offline and the import of that speaks for itself. If the technical quality of the game is degraded online (compared to offline) it still is being played by more users than ever before.

I don't think it's so simple b/c there is a difference between approaching entertainment seriously compared to it being considered a quasi-professional sport. I certainly respect how dedicated the best SC players are but at the end of the day, it is not a vocation. Certainly the offline tournament type players are more dedicated and proficient but they're also now part of a larger online community that's doesn't feel it has to apologize for seriously enjoying online competition. How much Namco will defer to the online component (when making patch decisions) I think remains to be seen.

I understand the thinking behind all of that, but it's just not feasible to hold serious competitions online. I just visited a cousin of mine recently who competed in UT2k4 on the PC for a while, and he just kind of laughed when he heard people complaining about lag online. PC players often joke about console players saying "patch the lag!" because they know it's impossible.

PC players are also often an elitist group of jerks, but in this case they're right. It's pointless to complain about lag, because there isn't any possible way to fully eliminate lag. And with any lag present, a proper competitive environment can't be created. So Namco has done what they've always done with their fighting games, and that's gear the balance towards offline play.

I'm not saying dismiss online play entirely, I'm just stating that it can't be taken seriously as a competitive environment. There isn't any online patch that can fix this, the internet is just not suitable for competitive play.

 

[Nevfx]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I do agree you can't get rid of lag, without removing nearly everything that we like about online play, so you either have to deal with lag, or not hold tournaments etc.

 

[Cirex]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I understand the thinking behind all of that, but it's just not feasible to hold serious competitions online. I just visited a cousin of mine recently who competed in UT2k4 on the PC for a while, and he just kind of laughed when he heard people complaining about lag online. PC players often joke about console players saying "patch the lag!" because they know it's impossible.

PC players are also often an elitist group of jerks, but in this case they're right. It's pointless to complain about lag, because there isn't any possible way to fully eliminate lag. And with any lag present, a proper competitive environment can't be created. So Namco has done what they've always done with their fighting games, and that's gear the balance towards offline play.

I'm not saying dismiss online play entirely, I'm just stating that it can't be taken seriously as a competitive environment. There isn't any online patch that can fix this, the internet is just not suitable for competitive play.

I've read DOA and VF players say that those games are much better online. If the coding allows for a faster sent of information, Namco can actually enhance their system. I'd love to see the exact miliseconds delay, not bars. I also would like to know why I get 4 bars against my real life friend who lives like 3 miles away from me but 5 bars against someone from Italy or UK.

 

[BatousaiNori]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I'm loving this patch so far. Happy they didn't touch Cervy that much:)

 

[whatwhatwhat]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I do agree you can't get rid of lag, without removing nearly everything that we like about online play, so you either have to deal with lag, or not hold tournaments etc.

I played an extensive amount of FPS for PC online, though I have not played any of them in the last year. The mechanics of online play though, has not changed much. The difference with lag for FPS games and fighting games is extremely apparent. With a FPS, it all comes down to how the client handles it. I distinctly remember many games giving people with lag an aiming ADVANTAGE, especially with Quake2.

The lagging person would appear to warp for those who did not lag, and the lagging person would be able to snipe a lot easier since their opponents would often freeze in place from their perspective. The client handled it basically that if your crosshair was over the opponent as far as you knew it, it would register as a hit. Even if in reality your target had just ducked behind a corner before your machine got the packet update for it.

Even on the simpler scale, take your average FPS game. What do you do in REALITY as a result of someone shooting? You move around. That is it. But you were doing that anyway. If they fire something like a sniper rifle or a railgun, all you can do is try to dodge their aim, since you obviously can't dodge the projectile itself.

It is an extremely basic concept, so effectively the people who are the best at these games are those who can think strategically about powerups, the terrain, and picking up on tendencies your opponent has. There really is no reaction to speak of.

Fighting games don't have prediction, they have buffering. More importantly though, the importance of reacting upon what your opponent does is much more prominent than it is in a shooter.


Just some of the many reasons why "pray and spray" games like CoD4 are so popular. Personally, I can't stand them anymore.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I've read DOA and VF players say that those games are much better online. If the coding allows for a faster sent of information, Namco can actually enhance their system. I'd love to see the exact miliseconds delay, not bars. I also would like to know why I get 4 bars against my real life friend who lives like 3 miles away from me but 5 bars against someone from Italy or UK.

VF works out slightly better, but it's more due to the style of game. It's less about reacting to a low/mid mixup, and more about your willingness to sit in your room 8 hours a day and practice inputting 20 commands a second to step, escape throws and guard at x amount of frames disadvantage, etc. In other words, things are done more on prediction than reaction. The buffer window is also MUCH larger to allow for this.

DOA had that HOT garbage for netcode, but because it's system was simplistic and essentially dumbed down to a 50/50 in every possible scenario, lag wasn't as much of an issue. And even then some strings were unblockable/uncounterable online many times, things like Hayate's 1k,k and Jann Lee's 6p,2k are a couple that I remember. Your counter would come out immediately after the 2nd hit landed, since you could counter out of hit stun, lol @ DOA.

You can't "patch" lag. It's never going to be good enough to compete seriously on the internet. I have to drive over an hour for my nearest competition offline, I'd love it if online play was feasible, but it's just not.

 

[Cirex]

The Patch Discussion Thread

I didn't know that, thanks.