Tira Matchups

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
I'm not good at judging this kind of thing but this thread can get discussion going to help Tiamat's matchup project. Remember that a character being better than another doesn't make the matchup.

VS
Algol - 4:6
Amy - 4:6
Astaroth -
Cassandra -
Cervantes -
Darth Vader -
Hilde - 4:6
Ivy - 4:6
Kilik - 4:6
Lizardman -
Maxi - 5:5
Mitsurugi - 4:6
Nightmare - 4:6
Raphael - 4:6
Rock - 5:5
Seong Mi-Na - 5:5
Setsuka -
Siegfried - 4:6
Sophitia - 3:7
Taki -
Talim -
The Apprentice -
Voldo -
Xianghua -
Yoda -
Yoshimitsu -
Yun-Seong -
Zasalamel -
 

ShinobiBrown

[10] Knight
Hooray a match up thread.

I should stop neglecting SCIV so I can help with this D:

EDIT: You are missed in Java Chat nicca.
 

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
Awww thanks Wayne. When I get to GA I'll be back in chat.

That Ivy matchup is what ditto and I agreed on. I wanna bring up Kilik and Hilde. Tira can punish both better than they can her. GS 3kA is spammable against them. -11 kick attack that catches step. Meaning their aGIs won't work on it.

Kilik has the adv at mid/long range but Tira wins up close. Same with Hilde but she's more linear at long range. After Kilik 2A on hit all his WS and FC moves are beaten by 6K except for WS K which you can step and FC 1B (both attacks whiff). Hilde has few good lows iirc so GS B+K is invaluable against her. Still she only needs you to mess up once to win. The matchup isn't bad but I'm unsure of how to rate it.
 

ShinobiBrown

[10] Knight
Kilik has the adv at mid/long range but Tira wins up close. Same with Hilde but she's more linear at long range. After Kilik 2A on hit all his WS and FC moves are beaten by 6K except for WS K which you can step and FC 1B (both attacks whiff).

That's shocking to read. Granted, majority of the people I've played offline who used Kilik were typical Kilik scrubs, so I really don't have any decent experience in that match up.

I foresee most of these match ups ending up being uphill battles though. Specially VS Algol, Amy, and Setsuka :(
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
Tira is actually good vs Hilde.

1A, 11A and 11K are excellent vs her spacing game. It's an even matchup. 5/5 imo
 

Freaky

[09] Warrior
I'm glad other people see Tira as a good matchup for Kilik. GS 22A against lazy Asura setups is so sick!
 

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
So vs Amy.....My main concern is how badly 6BB shuts Tira down and what she can do against 1A on hit mixups. 1A on hit is in Amy's favor against any character but if you anticipate:

1A 6BB - free CH WS B, WS B+K surprisingly
1A 4A - FC A, WS B+K hits partially
1A 3A - FC A
1A TJ attack - WS B AT activates
1A step - JS 6AB, GS 6Aaaaa

With 6BB around proper move application is very important. No such thing as a zoning Amy but man is she annoying.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Hmm took a long time for a matchup thread here I see. XD

Just looking around. gonna have to look at this GS 3kA move. sounds like she's got some good kicks, though I already knew 6K was good with her. hmm. I think wing zero said something about tira being good vs kilik once so you may have some backup from the other side

rant: sucks how most regions don't have anyone who's good with Tira, making it really hard to rank her matchups. I'll let you guys know if ppl talk about someone having matchup vs tira to make sure to get fair input. She's one of those characters everyone thinks sucks, so a lot of people are just gonna be giving their own characters advantage against her even if they haven't played a good one. Right now not a single matchup for her is ranked in the project
 

Tirasoul

[08] Mercenary
That Ivy matchup is what ditto and I agreed on. I wanna bring up Kilik and Hilde. Tira can punish both better than they can her. GS 3kA is spammable against them. -11 kick attack that catches step. Meaning their aGIs won't work on it.

dittO and I were playing a lot together (he's my brother you know ;)) so Ivy vs Tira is very casual between us!
dittO said that Tira is his worst opponet.i dont know if my Tira is his worst opponent but i think that Tira has many "tools" against Ivy in SC IV compare it to SCIII.

as for Hilde and Kilik.i have played the best Kilik in here and i have to say that he didn't win a round!i dont say that to be somebody but i think that Kilik has problems against Tira.
i havent play yet against Hilde because noone here doesnt play Hilde.so i dont have any expeirience with Hilde. :(

i like to add something here though.

i think that worst match ups for Tira is Amy and Taki because a lot of Tira's moves are punished from very fast moves from these 2 characters. (like AA from Taki).and both Amy and Taki are SO safe!
the only advantage Tira have is the range and more low attacks(especially from Taki).but still the pressure from Amy and Taki is a pain in the ass.

Also i think Nightmare is match up for Tira.especially when Tira is in Jolly side.
after his grim stride Nightmare has a lot of mix ups.Tira in JS has not a good 2A to interrupt him.So the best thing is to Tira crouch instantly to interuppt him with a 2K or 2A because the effect changes when Tira is crouch.but then again is very frustrating.
Furthemore NM has more range than Tira and more damage.and ofcourse his awsome RO game.witch i think after Hilde's is the best in the game.many choices for RO.
i dont know about you but sometimes i really have difficult times against him.
the best thing i have for NM is to do mix up moves with Tira especially her JS 44_11_77B GS 11_77B because she is safe on block and on hit take the advantage.(and other moves ofcourse)
in Gloomy i have no problem because she has many tools to work!

i want to see your suggestions about these characters.maybe youll give me some thoughts!
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
just so you know, tira + kilik is going into the ranking chart as a 5-5 later, talked with wing zero. seems a good agreement with the stuff I've read here

NM vs Tira: never played it
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
Tira vs Amy is 6:4 in Amy's favor.

Amy's 6BB is quite troublesome. It punishes attacks that Tira tends to be reliant on. JS 6K, 11K, 1B i think. She also doesn't have great TCs to deal with it until she gets to JS. So the adv here is really Amy's speed and ability to punish her basics. They both do comparable damage until Tira goes to GS

Tira vs NM 6-4 in Nm's favor
As mentioned by Tira soul, not having a 2A in JS hurts vs his GS game. NM can also gamble his highs more often vs her in JS cuz of her lack of solid TCs. She needs to duck in order to get her best TCs. (WS B+K and WS B). NM's spacing game with B+K also is troublesome for her, cuz she has no fast enough antistep at that range.

Tira vs Kilik 6-4 in Tira's favor
Her 11K is very gangsta attack vs Asura, not to mention all her kicks 6K, 33K etc are all sold vs K. Her 6B surprisingly works well vs his WS B spacing game. The opportunities for Kilik just don't arise often vs her. He can't punish her well at all, and he can't make her hesitate with Asura cuz of 11K and 6K usage and he can't zone her all that well either due to 6B, 1A and 11A. When in GS, he B+K is very troublesome for him as well. She gets good reward for defeating his back parry mixups. On one hand 6K/9K CH on the other B+K reversal.


Tira vs Maxi 5/5
In JS, maxi has the upper hand vs her due to her lack of speed and a solid interrupt or anything very damaging...however in JS.....Tira's 6aaaa and B+K and 3kA become forces from the dark dark creepy depths of hell. She becomes extremely hard to lockdown or step G. She can afford to make more gambles when in this stance due to her increased damage output. Her 44K is a force to be reckoned with where punishment and speed are concerned.
 

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
Tirasoul: ditt0's ur bro? That's awesome. Make sure to share your anti-Ivy sometime.

Tiamat: Yea since lack of Tira knowledge is common I don't trust how any1 ranks her but hotnikkelz. Hopefully people get to play her more to make better judgments than "she sucks."

hotnikkelz: I added all the ranks that sounded right to me to the top post. I hesitate to give Tira any adv matchups tbh. Handling Asura isn't enough imo but she does it well. With mood change the potential risk/reward makes Asura unfavorable which evens the matchup. I used to feel comfortable using JS 66AA against him until I saw he can 3kB for 35. How can you zone with 11A? It doesn't have much range.
 

Tirasoul

[08] Mercenary
Tirasoul: ditt0's ur bro? That's awesome. Make sure to share your anti-Ivy sometime.

yeah man....no sweat!ill gather any information in one post and i will post it here!

Tira vs NM 6-4 in Nm's favor
As mentioned by Tira soul, not having a 2A in JS hurts vs his GS game. NM can also gamble his highs more often vs her in JS cuz of her lack of solid TCs. She needs to duck in order to get her best TCs. (WS B+K and WS B). NM's spacing game with B+K also is troublesome for her, cuz she has no fast enough antistep at that range.

correct man.but i think you want to write Tira vs NM 4-6 Nm's favor...right?i know it was a mistake! ;)

Tira vs Maxi.....hmmm i really dont know.
i have played vs Maxi once and i win but i dont know if troubles Tira.
Maxi has many unsafe moves in SCIV.and not very quick moves to interuppt Tira.So i think that Maxi has some trouble than Tira.but honestly i dont know for sure.i have to play again with a Maxi.

just so you know, tira + kilik is going into the ranking chart as a 5-5 later, talked with wing zero. seems a good agreement with the stuff I've read here

to be honest Tiamat i have played against Kilik twice!and with a very good Kilik user.
the most frustrating thing was his guaranteed RO move after the GB which is unblockable move after that.
but i can deal with this.i played with this Kilik and i won twice.
but if the chart is 5-5 then i guess is probably right.i have to play more Kilik.
saddly i cant play Online because i hate it with SO much lag.so i hope to meet some people here to play!
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
hotnikkelz: I added all the ranks that sounded right to me to the top post. I hesitate to give Tira any adv matchups tbh. Handling Asura isn't enough imo but she does it well. With mood change the potential risk/reward makes Asura unfavorable which evens the matchup. I used to feel comfortable using JS 66AA against him until I saw he can 3kB for 35. How can you zone with 11A? It doesn't have much range.


Hmm maybe 6/4 is a bit of a stretch vs Kilik but i don't like .5 ratings. Probably settle it as 5/5 for now to keep the peace :)
JS 66AA is dangerous. I don't think she needs it much though. Zoning with 11A as with all attacks depends on the range at which u choose to use of course. It is faster than 1A, but has shorter range, and cuts step well. Kilik will NOT be at ideal range all the time.

Tira vs Maxi
Maxi having many unsafe moves in SC4 is a misconception. Everyone has unsafe moves, it depends on how you play. He takes more RISKS...but Tira doesn't have the tools to capitalise on these risks until she reaches GS. Also, him and Tira are same speed. Only her 44K is faster, but lacks range. He does much more damage as well. I'll stick with 5/5 for now
 

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts

Is zoning different from spacing? My bad then. With Kilik I always try to stay close since it feels pointless otherwise. And you know my deal with Maxi. So whatever you say goes mon :)

BTW ur Maxi was impressive in its simplicity. I was surprised by the lack of loop shenanigans. Best I've seen.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
i dunno i encompass zoning and spacing into one group to avoid complications hahaha.
Thanks...
Loop shenanigans only work well when used in moderation, intelligently and against characters whose response doesn't give massive rewards for guessing right. Sets for eg.
 

Tirasoul

[08] Mercenary
to clarify that=>(Tira vs Maxi)
i was saying that Maxi is anytime open to attacks during his stances.thats what i was saying.sorry for my english guys.(its not on the same level as my brother's )

to Tira vs Ivy now.
i will make a post here after i discuss some things with him.
but for one conversation we have we thinking that maybe Tira vs Ivy is 5-5 or 4-6.we dont know yet.
my brother sais that i played the best Tira in Greece so i dont know if that matters?
i dont want to be somebody with Tira but the only person here who challenge him most is me.(thats what he said).a reason is that we know the one the other how we play.
so ill tell you what.
im gonna upload some videos with me and my brother to see us yourself!
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
to clarify that=>(Tira vs Maxi)
i was saying that Maxi is anytime open to attacks during his stances.thats what i was saying.sorry for my english guys.(its not on the same level as my brother's )

That is also a misconception, if the maxi knows what he's doing he's hardly ever left open. He gambles, and the opponent gambles. It's up to the Maxi player to make that gamble worth it. He has many defensive weapons in his stances. It's hard to explain it on paper, i can only show what i mean if you played me.
 

Tirasoul

[08] Mercenary
That is also a misconception, if the maxi knows what he's doing he's hardly ever left open. He gambles, and the opponent gambles. It's up to the Maxi player to make that gamble worth it. He has many defensive weapons in his stances. It's hard to explain it on paper, i can only show what i mean if you played me.

i agree with you man!i dont want to argue with you.
and ofcourse i dont have play enough matches against Maxi.
but for what youve said that a Maxi player can make his moves safe or to gamble that is the same for the opponent.if the opponent knows well how to play against Maxi he can react to every move or better in almost every move.but ok that is for every character.
but dont forget that Maxi doesnt have the best abuse moves that he has in SCIII.
some good moves can be execute during his stances.

anyway....i agree with you especially in the last part.its so difficult to explain something on the paper!

p.s: something irrelevant!Mikosu nice cats! :)
 

mikosu

Goderator of pink hearts
Why thank you Tirasoul. They're my babies. But you can butter me up better by uploading those vids you mentioned. Get to it!

Anyone have advanced insight into the Siegfried matchup? I just know he has better moves at range so I'm not comfortable unless close.