Top 3 characters by Keev, Akire, Daishi, Hyrul, and RTD from World Finals

Windstar said:
There's no real bottom tier.

Hard to say if there's any real consensus about Tira, Raphael, or Aeon yet. Seems there's simply too much focus on very specific stances, and moves and the lack of any real depth into the character right now.

Here's a good example of why players might be missing the big picture with some characters: Cervantes' aB is terrible. It's i11 on the first hit and i14 on the second hit. It hits high and mid, the first hit barely has any range and the second hit can be stepped. On hit - counter or not - its -4 and -18 on block. Hitting with this move means you can't follow up with anything. If you do, you'll eat 236Bs all day long. Cervantes' other moves are terribly slow and punishable on hit or block. Or he can't pressure or follow up with anything if he's safe. His Dread Charge options telegraph too much and aside from one high attack option, they're all steppable.
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Aside the fact you are almost insulting all raph players that still decided to study the character......
You could be surprised if you read raph data in the appropriate section..its not that raph is a new character....and due to all his weaknesses in every chapter, players are accustomed to learn and test EVERY single move (and i would say that almost any of them have been nerfed hugely from scIV).


Said that if aB is terrible you are playing a different game....

If you step aB you get hit by A, if you block it, pushback prevents you to punish appropriately, but the ability of punishing i11 for 45 is something absurd...

It can interrupt most string that almost anybody in the cast can.
Its a universal tool that wins matches alone in the hands of a good player....


Your definition of terrible is really superficial you do not take applications of the move in account and define it bad as "offensive tool".

Not every move is made for pressure, some are for defense.
you seems to lack a huge part of the game...

Some characters are made for pressing other are made for punishing.


He can poke you all day long and punish from any distance

On the other side if you want to be taken seriously you should show raph players the "big picture" they are missing.....
 
kAb said:
the point.....you missed it.
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i don t think so...
i think old characters are not underexplored at all.....

Maybe new characters or those having huge changes...
But raph and others aside nerfs/buffs have the same moves.

Despite requiring different strategies, most work is already done...with the tool's knowledge, adapting should be fast expecially since we have to adapt our strategy (not only rah players) continuosly to matchups....
 
You still missed the point. I believe the point was that aB is a terrible move on paper but applied properly it is an essential tool to Cervantes game plan.
 
Does anyone actually play their character because THEY LIKE THEIR CHARACTER??? Lol it cracks me up to think someone would actually main a character based on some tier list that nobody can or will agree on. I main Nightmare cause dude looks badass and holds that big ass sword with one hand lol. He's really fun to play and that's all I'm trying to do is have fun. After all it is game.
 
in competition people want to give themselves the best chance to win. i play characters i like, but there is a cutoff point for how shitty a character i'll play before i switch. which is why i dropped SC3 talim after week 2.
 
Neuroth said:
"If you know your enemy and you know yourself , you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles. If you do not know your enemies but you know yourself, you will win one and lose one. If you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Sun Tzu was talking about Tier lists in the 6th century BC. :P
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That sounds like a good signature, Neuroth. May I add that phrase to my own, please? ^_^
 
Mavericks42O said:
Does anyone actually play their character because THEY LIKE THEIR CHARACTER??? Lol it cracks me up to think someone would actually main a character based on some tier list that nobody can or will agree on. I main Nightmare cause dude looks badass and holds that big ass sword with one hand lol. He's really fun to play and that's all I'm trying to do is have fun. After all it is game.
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I play raphael because he is top tier.... ._.
I used to play mitsu and i still like him but he is boooooring now to play.

But you can understand that it sucks losing to worse players...
And with the actual damage paired with huge balance issues tiers does matter a lot.

Before you say you never lose to bad players, i'll tell you i saw known tournament players losing rounds and even a match to bad players lol (on the ft5 they won obviously).
 
Instead of thinking:

"Ugh, my supposed low tier character's cheap stuff isn't as good as this high tier's stuff."

...may I recommend stumbling into Training mode, and figuring out how to actively defend against said problematic character's moves and setups. This way, the only way you will not do well is if you are the worse player. Now, I didn't say win - I said "do well". The fact that you even do well with a supposed low tier character is enough reason to continue playing them. You will only improve with them, and you may just flesh out some things that nobody has ever seen before. Suddenly, you may have the edge. Who knows. It's a new game guys, keep an open mind. You're not going to have as much fun winning 8/10 fights with a top tier you don't care about as you do winning 6/10 with the character you love.

Case-in-point: Hawkeye
 
As time goes on I reckon that Pyrrha is going to end up sliding down the tiers. No lower than mid, mind (she still has excellent block punisher, solid step killers etc.), but now that the game's been out for a few months it's clear she has some obvious flaws (since post-patch Pyrrha is scarcely any different from pre-patch). Among other things:

* Her BEs are terrible. All of them outside of 66B BE are a joke, and even that one can be easily JG'd, thus limiting its use to whiff punishment.

* Her only decent low, 1K, requires her to be practically touching her opponent, and unlike Omega her guard pressure isn't really strong enough to make up for it.

* In general she needs to be up-close to be effective - characters that are good at zoning thus become difficult to deal with.
 
66B BE catches rollers so there is that.

If people around here still believe that Pyrrha is anywhere near high tier, then the community here is laughable.
Much of her stuff is not supposed to work.

In my head, Pyrrha and Omega are the same character with two versions. You have entry-grade Pyrrha which is easy to play but quite lacking against strong competition, and then you have high-grade Omega which demands much more work and offers more solid tools.

I have a theory that Pyrrha needs to use B+K often and have a good eye for the counter hit stab, but if you can use B+K properly, you might as well switch to Omega who is stronger in that domain.
 
what more do you need aside from BB, 1K, AA, 6B+K, 236 B, 3B, spend meter on CE.

pyrrah is annoying to deal with, she forces you to stand and guess on 50/50s because so many of her moves hit grounded, throws leave great wakeup position. it can be hard to crack a turtle pyrrah.
 
CarteBlanche said:
If people around here still believe that Pyrrha is anywhere near high tier, then the community here is laughable.
Much of her stuff is not supposed to work.
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Funny how i said kind of similar things earlier and got called a scrub with no idea what he's talking about.

But that's all in the past and this thread is a lot slower so whatever. I do agree however, i think Pyrhha is on the upper end of mid tier, maybe a little higher. Now that her 236B is more punishable (Especially by my character), she just feels a lot easier to fight against. Before that stab ruined everything cause she could throw it out whenever and Viola could only get like an AA punish. And yeah, 66B BE isnt as big of a problem if you keep cool and JG, or even GI.
 
236B being more punishable is a non issue. at low and mid level where people tossed it out everywhere, then sure its a big help in the matchup. against a player who knows where to get their guaranteed -14 punish damage then being more unsafe doesnt mean anything.
 
kAb said:
236B being more punishable is a non issue. at low and mid level where people tossed it out everywhere, then sure its a big help in the matchup. against a player who knows where to get their guaranteed -14 punish damage then being more unsafe doesnt mean anything.
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It still deters players who liked using it on guesses, rather than guaranteed block punishes. I played several good pyrrhas who liked doing it pre-emptively after an attack in anticipation of a counter. They cant really do it anymore without a big risk. It could be really abused before, at all levels. Not so much now.
 
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