Viola : Current Issues, and what needs to be fixed.

[Synraii]

I swear I'm the only Viola player in the world who thinks she's top 5, lol.
So far as I can tell, the only people who think she's not top are Viola MAINS, not necessarily Viola players...
Deja vu I guess.

That said, Dest makes some fair points, but I can't think of 5 better characters than her.

 

[LP]

That said, Dest makes some fair points, but I can't think of 5 better characters than her.

aPat, Mits, Cervy, Algol, and oPyr or regular Pat.

Don't get me wrong, I think Viola's good, but I can explain my reasoning completely when I get out of class.

 

[LP]

SET 6B+K is seriously overrated. Not in the sense that I don't think the move is awesome (because it clearly is), but Viola has so much more going for her. Even without it she'd still have hella strong combos (albeit fewer set-ups for them), solid close-range pressure, a great throw game, good low pokes...

You know who is one-dimensional, though? Pyrrha Ω. For someone with such a steep learning curve, her fighting strategy ends up being surprisingly simple.

You're crazy! I'd like to challenge you to play me with you using Viola without using 6B+K and see how you do.

 

[Synraii]

and oPyr or regular Pat.

Are you kidding? O Pyrr is the most overrated character in SCV hands down, just an ass version of SCIV Sophitia. As for vanila pat, the only thing he is better for is ranged whiff punishment and block punishment.

 

[Destinizish]

Are you kidding? O Pyrr is the most overrated character in SCV hands down, just an ass version of SCIV Sophitia. As for vanila pat, the only thing he is better for is ranged whiff punishment and block punishment.

No Synraii, no. Opyrrha is really really strong.

I understand Viola is great (as I said, damage nerfs aren't out of order). However, she isn't bullshit tier.

 

[Vini]

SC5 has many very good charaters. Viola has unlimited potential and has a very different gameplay. But is not overpowered, especially when you compare her to characers like Nightmare and Natsu.

It´s very hard to play against her because she is so different (mixups and confuse frame data). She needs some specific atention in trainning mode and a lot of practice against. Trainning is the solution. Very good character. Overpowered, not.

 

[sephalump]

I think the real over powered aspect is this community's ability to never be satisfied playing the game.

 

[Synraii]

Opyrrha is really really strong.

I genuinely feel Pyrrha is better. I think your biased because its a tough matchup for Viola because she cant punish her well and Oprah performs well in her bad range. She's high risk, too high risk in this game.

 

[LP]

I genuinely feel Pyrrha is better. I think your biased because its a tough matchup for Viola because she cant punish her well and Oprah performs well in her bad range. She's high risk, too high risk in this game.

This is a pretty good subject, actually. I also feel Pyrrha is better because she's suited to my style more (along with her having a better step, generally better safety, and a better ground game). Still, the thing is that oPyr outdamages her everywhere, has a wall game, a better soul crush game, and overall better throws. The biggest thing I don't like about oPyr is her 66a.

Still, even though I disagree with you, Ramon feels the same as you.

 

[taffertier]

That said, Dest makes some fair points, but I can't think of 5 better characters than her.

I just got finished playing a Mitsu player who insisted that Mitsurugi is no where near as good as Viola and that he isnt arguably the best character in the game, not even one of the best. He listed, Natsu, Patroklos, Astaroth, Cervantes, and Oprah as all characters better than Mitsu and placed Viola on some untouchable top tier who also just happens to be good against Mitsu on a match up level. Apparently this guy is also a veteran of the series and has been playing since 3, he doesnt play like a slouch.

Personally i would put Viola in the top 5, but towards the bottom of this top 5. She has problems no doubt, and her weaknesses are honestly what keep her from being the best of the best, pretty well balanced actually. The only thing that's OP about her would be her damage in some situations. Which is why i dont think anyone would be against a small damage nerf / adjustment.

It's hard for me to put in order the characters i believe are better than Viola.

 

[AlphaKEG]

I'd place Viola as top 3 not top 5.

 

[Destinizish]

I genuinely feel Pyrrha is better. I think your biased because its a tough matchup for Viola because she cant punish her well and Oprah performs well in her bad range. She's high risk, too high risk in this game.

Oprah isn't that high risk.

And TBH, I don't just play Viola. I don't know what gave you that impression. I also don't know what gave you the impression I base my opinions on the tiers based completely on my matchups with them.

She's really strong, and as LP said, she's better in a ton of places. People may be overrating her, but she's still top 5 IMO. And certainly, if we're going to base this on risk/reward, as you're saying Oprah is high risk, we can say Viola has the same problem, but worse. Viola is super high risk/high reward. Oprah is far less risky, with pretty good reward herself.

I think what people don't understand, is that high risk/high reward characters WILL look ridiculously bullshit when people guess wrong consistently, or just don't understand the risks they are taking. When people guess right, or punish consistently, suddenly the character looks like they're awful. This is just how these characters work. Yes, my tools do things that can lead to bullshit damage. Yes, my wall game can devastate you. Yes, I can ringout from really far away with meter. However, every time I do all of these things, I'm being risky as fuck, and if you guessed correctly, I eat 100 damage for it in a lot of cases.

Sure, there's characters that can't punish her too hard for the risks she takes, and might only eat a 50 damage punish thus making the risk far more worth it, but everyone has bad matchups. Viola's no exception. If your matchup with Viola is like this, call the matchup bullshit, not the character. You don't have the tools to mess Viola's game up, and thus it's a harder battle for you. This doesn't make Viola the ultimate top tier character. You would just be looking at it in a vacuum, as you were claiming I do with oprah.

I'd place Viola as top 3 not top 5.

And you'd be just as wrong as the others with the whine. She's high tier, and that's why I'm perfectly fine with nerfs if they come. Ideally, I'd like all characters to be close to the mid tier characters' range.

But Viola is by no means outclassing people as hard as many others. And her bad matchups? They're all against characters that sit in that top 5.

 

[taffertier]

Viola is super high risk/high reward.

Good luck getting other people to believe this.

I'm sure if i think about it some more it'll make sense though. But i might just be over thinking it.

 

[Solo]

^I believe it to a degree. I can see where she has to take a risk. I just freeze up every time I fight her.

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

I call it B.S. if anyone can consistently react to SET6B+K know why? can't react to it. And i have yet to see anyone try to outhit her while she's doing it. Im sure at MLG most people had their anti viola up to par and they all just stood there and took the 50/50 mixups. If this char is so dependent on that 1 move while if it was changed than she'll be bad every else then to me thats a really bad design. Btw about the top 5...if she isn't top 5 then she is mighty close to it...and imo that matchup with her and cervantes is dead even...and im even gonna give viola a slight advantage in that matchup. Only matchups I see that are bad for her are with Astaroth, Nightmare, Omega, Alpha, and rugi.

 

[Destinizish]

I call it B.S. if anyone can consistently react to SET6B+K know why? can't react to it. And i have yet to see anyone try to outhit her while she's doing it. Im sure at MLG most people had their anti viola up to par and they all just stood there and took the 50/50 mixups. If this char is so dependent on that 1 move while if it was changed than she'll be bad every else then to me thats a really bad design. Btw about the top 5...if she isn't top 5 then she is mighty close to it...and imo that matchup with her and cervantes is dead even...and im even gonna give viola a slight advantage in that matchup. Only matchups I see that are bad for her are with Astaroth, Nightmare, Omega, Alpha, and rugi.

That's... A REALLY bad way to look at it. Set 6B+K is a 50/50 mixup if you let her get it off. Watch closely when you see it used in tourney play. Largely when she gets it for "free" it's because the other guy used an unsafe move that got blocked. Viola has the frames there to 6B+K for free. If she uses it at random, or in a blockstring, she gets hit out of it or is forced to block. If she doesn't, they played wrong.

And no, it's not bad design. They designed her to be a pressure character in a 3D game. Her pressure may hinge around one move, but at the same time, it works, and well.

And no, she loses the matchup against Cervy. I can give several places where it's not a good matchup. I'll bet LP can too. Asty isn't a bad matchup for her IMO.

You want to know her bad matchups?

aPat, Pyrrha, Oprah, Algol, Rugi, NM, Cerv and to an extent Patroklos.

Holy hell, the amount of silliness that comes from you guys. I feel like every single tournament player with exception to two I have talked to all call Viola Good/Decent, never top 5 or OP. I only hear this from randoms :/

 

[taffertier]

I feel like every single tournament player with exception to two I have talked to all call Viola Good/Decent, never top 5 or OP. I only hear this from randoms :/

I could have sworn i heard differently. That might be because it was from a little while ago, like last i heard Keev said Viola is one of the best characters in the game. And RTD called Viola OP in his interview, not sure if he was serious there or not though.

 

[MntT77]

You're crazy! I'd like to challenge you to play me with you using Viola without using 6B+K and see how you do.

I don't suppose ORB 6B+K would still be allowed, would it? :P

 

[LP]

Sure

I think what people don't understand, is that high risk/high reward characters WILL look ridiculously bullshit when people guess wrong consistently, or just don't understand the risks they are taking. When people guess right, or punish consistently, suddenly the character looks like they're awful. This is just how these characters work. Yes, my tools do things that can lead to bullshit damage. Yes, my wall game can devastate you. Yes, I can ringout from really far away with meter. However, every time I do all of these things, I'm being risky as fuck, and if you guessed correctly, I eat 100 damage for it in a lot of cases.

Holy hell, I was saying that exact same thing last night! Basically, Viola looks stupid broken when she's hitting you with everything she throws out. But, what people fail to realize is that, in addition to having no punishment, not being the fastest of characters, and only having technically long range, her hitbox and hurtbox are one and the same.

Don't get me wrong, I think she has the best pressure game in the game (and you all can go back months ago where I said her RO game is stupid), but it's not like you just pick Viola and win...no, you need meter for 44A BE first!

But, seriously, I think she's decently balanced. She has holes in her game like everyone else. With that said, she has some of the worst matchups in the game. Still, it's whatever, love this lil' lady.

 

[Ikuwayo]

Slow startup+low damage+not a good use of meter in a combo+ useless against someone who can Just Guard=Failure CE.
Honestly no one has Just Guarded when I did it, but I guarantee it'll happen eventually.
If it's start up weren't slow, then I suppose it's useful.
CE~BB~3B would be a good startup if the CE were faster, but it isn't, therefore it isn't very useful as other CEs.

There's so much wrong with this....

Her CE has much range. The best thing is she doesn't have to be close to hit with her CE, it's all about the orb! If the orb is close and you're at a safe distance, the start-up will be perfectly safe too. If the move were as fast as i12, it would be absolutely broken. Adding to that she does a step back before starting her CE, just to make it slightly harder to hit her. Her CE sucks the opponent in, so even if the orb isn't placed perfectly, you will still be forgiven.

Her CE's has many set-ups. Recalls, 6B+K, 4A+B, 2A+B, 6A+B, basically everything that sets the orb close to the opponent is a good set-up. You can also start the orb after knocking the opponent down, after for example 8A+B or 66B 66A+BB (dash to them and CE). If they get hit during their wake-up, they are eating damage.

On block, her CE forces a 50/50 mix-up (if you're close, it can force two! yaaay :D ). B and 1K are probably your best bets. If they hit they can not only lead to great damage by lauching with 3B, but also to more meter gain! Viola's CE is probably the CE that actually allows to gain a bar of meter back if the CE has succesfully connected.

If your mix-ups failed, the orb can still save you (and even still leave you at an advantage). That is, if you don't overdo it and if you don't spam 3Bs after your mix-ups have just failed. The CE is also a perfect set-up for a throw or for a 6B+K/4A+B/2B+K/2[A+B]/whatever other move you have planned to put pressure.

Her CE is not BROKEN though, but it's one of the best, if not the best. It may require more work than a regular CE, you will have to do more than 236236A+B+K and watch your character do circus tricks. It also has a slow start-up, but instead it has multiple good and reliable set-ups, amazing rewards and it's perfectly safe. I don't know to what extend JG messes with her CE, but other than fucking up her unblockable, I can't imagine JG being too much of a pain. If I'm wrong, feel free to enlighten me so we can watch out and adjust to it.