What do you think about Stuns overall?

Thane

Thane

[09] Warrior
Generally I think Stuns as a whole play a much more prominent role in SC4 then they ever have before. I don't know what to make of it. At times I love it because I allows some great strings (even if they can be broken it still adds pressure) yet at other times it seems like the game ends up revolving around stuns.

I hate seeing my character writhe in agony while there is nothing I can do and get hit again. I've been playing since SC2 and it seems like it is ALOT more frequent in this game.

Not saying they are bad or good, its part of the game so we deal and work with and around it. Just wondering if anyone else noticed this and what their thoughts are on the subject.
 
im in the same boat as loli. i think they are great however cause maxi has a lot of em. But when im on the reciving end it makes me wanna throw controllers across the room!! I still have a hard time shaking them. I especially hate cervantes's stun moves. On of his strings in particular where only the first stun is shakeable and if you dont shake that, your gonna eat a big fatty combo!! so overall the frustrate me more than i like em!!
 
Hot_Rod_Dave said:
im in the same boat as loli. i think they are great however cause maxi has a lot of em. But when im on the reciving end it makes me wanna throw controllers across the room!! I still have a hard time shaking them. I especially hate cervantes's stun moves. On of his strings in particular where only the first stun is shakeable and if you dont shake that, your gonna eat a big fatty combo!! so overall the frustrate me more than i like em!!
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Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.

I fall for that one every single time. <.<
 
I also play DoA4. That was stun hell. Even a standing friggin jab would stun if you were standing in the right place, and those stuns were even more of a pain to shake out of. Sure I could always guess a counter...but if guessing was so much fun we would all love playing online.

In short - it could be worse ;)
 
I don't like them at times because I can't shake out of them most of the time. I can't really complain about them though because I find them useful.
 
Personally, I like stuns and enjoy preforming and watching stun combos. As far as me being on the receiving end, if a stun is shakable, I can shake it. The only stuns I can't shake out of are the stuns that aren't shakable (duh). So I have no problems with the stuns in this game.
 
Another thing about stuns is that it adds a completely new level of mindgame to the enemy's strategy. What if they want you to shake? My brother's Cassandra uses a mean "shake trap" where when he lands a CH 3K (I think that's her knee attack), he'll EITHER crouch throw you, or wait until you shake and do a standing throw instead.

They're like a more infuriating, constricting form of frame traps.
 
Just a side question.... How do you know if a stun is shakable or not?

What do you do to shake a stun? Just mash all the buttons? Or can you just hit guard a lot and that is enough to break it. Thanks.

On topic: I don't mind stuns too much. Unless I play Maxi. Then I hate them.
 
Non diagonal directional inputs = 1 shake... some moves takes 5..some take 10 and some are unshakeable.


Anyways ... stun moves = launchers. Don't know why no one complains about being helpless in the air (for the first hit) .. yet stun combos drive them batshit. This is probably just because it's a newer element to the game.

I mean you dont' expect raphael to launch anyone with his rapier, so his combos are down to his stuns.

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And the worse part I want to bring up is the animation of stuns and hitting your dizzy opponant vs launching them in the air and beating on them. launchers are a lil less realistic, but certainly more entertaining.
 
Yeah, stuns do add another level to the game. Basic example: I use Vader online. His BB combos into a lot of things if they don't know how to shake it. Once they start shaking it I put a fireball in their face.

If you're having problems with shakeable stuns, just look up that thread in the SC4 tactics forum. I think it's like 5 non-diagonal inputs to shake it off, so something like 46464 would work. Just learn to react to it like you would for throw breaking. Go into training mode if you need the extra practice.
 
@ Loli- yeah I have problems shaking them too.

@ hotroddave- I HATE! that Cervy combo and I feel your pain.

I play Nighty alot and I love them for wall combos and whatnot. lol we all like to do em but not recieve em. i figured as much. :)

its a fine line. To be honest I kind like the VC in SC3, you could bascially get out of anything which really gave you a breath of air while you were drowning. Part of me wishes that they wouldn't have taken that "game mechanic" out.
 
Vincent said:
Ban them.

If you don't feel likewise then you're a tool.
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Silence, vile Canuck! Over here, we don't ban things until the majority of people want them banned, even if the majority of that majority is comprised of idiots. It's the American Way!
 
I hate stuns, because I'm not the kind of person who looks at the result. Instead, I look at the path that was used.

If someone wins because he used 5 shakable stuns in a match, he's not necessarily a better player, because his opponent had to work much harder than him.

It disgusts me.
 
first..it depends if we are talking about online or offline. There really is a difference. Shake-in stuns offline ain't no thing.. but online it can get a little harder especially if it isn't a 5 bar match. And in what way does using 5 shakable stuns make someone not better than you? If anything it just shows that part of your own game is very flawed. I get screwed by grapples online cuz i never played sc 3 and I was always use to simply impacting grapples. So its taking a lot of changing on my part. I still suck at grapple breaks but I understand that. Do i get pissed if someone grapples a lot and I lose?? yes. Am I gonna lose 5 out of 5 matches to that? In no way if that is all that they do. My point being that one win is one win...any given sunday and all that crap. Now if they are consistently beating you win shakeable stuns that is your fault...not thiers. Course...all that is talking about offline more than online..cuz latency can make it so grapples and stuns are a much bigger problem. Overall though..naah..stuns are cool.. I don't tend to use shakeable stuns often except with maybe cervantes, but I see nothing flawed with them or anything. Hell, if a character stuns a lot its because that is one of the character's strengths. To say stuns, shakeable or not, are unfair would be like saying fast characters are unfair becuase thier aa comes out too fast...or that astaroth punishes too hard...or lizardman's crawl stance A is bullshit. In any game when you lose..its YOUR fault and nobody elses. Juggles and tech traps are more fun anyway :)
 
If you abuse stuns, all you have to do is one attack whenever you feel like it, and then if it connects, continue with the rest of your memorized combo. Most of the time, the combo is easy to execute.

If you get stunned, you have to react, and then do 46464 (compared to, say, 3B, this input is ridiculously difficult.) soon enough, and quickly enough.


I guess that another thing that disgusts me is people who believe that shaking stuns is as easy as giving them.
 
of course they are not as easy... but that is the difference between a good player and a player that needs work. And you tell me one chracter that can just say "you know... I'm gonna just auto-dodge this attack or break his guard or hit through his parry and simply stun this guy..then blast him for 100 damage." Its not like that at all. I guess I should ask this first before I bother saying any more..but.. do you think that ringouts are unfair? Because if you do then I understand how stuns would be unfair too. But if you don't think ringouts are unfair then how could a stun be unfair? Also, most shakeable stun moves are very punishable if blocked, so its not like they are just getting to hit you and you can't hit them back if they are are "throwing" it out. Is juggling unfair too? What about hitting someone while they are on the ground or teching? And of course wall stuns can't possibly be unfair..because if that wall was not there... they would have already lost from a ringout. Also, I havn't said anything about you...and yet you say I disgust you because I said that you just need to work on your stun shaking? Hell...I said I personally have a problem with grapple breaking, so its not like I'm all high and mighty on myself. And of course nobody breaks a stun EVERY time. If that were the case then there would be no grapples/stuns/juggles because every time someone did something the other person would automatically make it do NOTHING. Then we'd be playing Streets of rage 1 vs 1 with just pressing punch quickly and hoping one person hits more and not a fighting game. You are just too easily disgusted I guess. And don't get me wrong...I understand it can be a pain, especially online, when someone uses the same string again and again..but then again...that is what high lvl play of ANY game is. Why did germany go through neutral belgium in WWI and again in WWII??? becuase it worked. So why would you expect someone to just decide to not ring you out or not stun you if it keeps working? Nobody is perfect and you are of course entitled to your opinion... I just said that I don't find shaking a problem and they really do give you enough time to do it after most shakeable stuns. Take that as you want and say "no no.. you are wrong..they are hard" becuase okay..they are for you..just like grapple breaks are hard for me. But please don't take personal offense or take shots just becasue we disagree. Just keep it peaceful bro. And as a side note...stuns make long chains which makes the game more fun to watch. SC without any chains (juggle or stun) would be like tekken without 20 year long juggles or SF(newer) without special moves or SFII without combos. Actually... have you ever played tekken? Its much worse for having to watch your character flail about without being able to do anything.
 
My remark about people who disgust me wasn't aimed only at you, a lot of people seem to think it's completely fair.

As for ring outs, ...uh. No it's not fair, but I don't complain anymore. In general it's 50/50 easy to perform/avoid, but you can still luck out. In my opinion, it's an unnecessary luck factor.

But stuns... I never said that I had problems shaking them. (I do, but I would still complain if I had no problem with it.)


Put Mitsurugi versus Setsuka. Who has to work the most? Setsuka.
Mitsurugi won. Who had to work the most? Setsuka.
Setsuka won. Who had to work the most? Setsuka.


Cervantes abuses the stun combo repeatedly, against Rock.
Rock didn't manage to shake them on time but tried. Who worked the most? Rock.
Rock shook them on time and won. Who worked the most? Rock.


As I said, I don't care about results, I care about how it happened behind the scenes.
But most people only care about results, so I'm not really trying to prove anything...
 
aahh.. okay.. ty for the clarifications. No problem with ringouts myself but its also not as if the majority of fighters have the feature or anything so I don't mind if ppl don't like it. Personally I find it more fun..as well as it makes you feel better..to do a 19-21 hit wall combo with yoshi than to simply press aB+K and get a ringout..and it requires a lot more skill. But I guess we sorta agree on ringouts then (other than the not being fair part)..its unNECESSARY..but if the game has it then MHEE. And I guess to some degree i'd rather there be fewer shake-stuns with some being removes and others being turned into non-shakeable stuns (because its not like its FUN to shake a stun..I'd much rather do a parry or some sort of counter from DOA or tekken). Also, rock really is a laughable example because he is the MOST dependent of ANY character in the game on the CONCEPT of stuns. What I mean is.. his entire ground game..which kinda IS his game..is based off 50/50 with the opponent doing a LOT more work than the rock player to just not be thrown infinitely on the ground. Every time I play rock I say to myself "here we go again...time go start pounding buttons." I mean.. do you seriously play set without using ANY stuns? Maxi is all ABOUT stuns and strings. And rock..as I just mentioned... HAS to use stuns and throws or he is toast. I mean.. I guess its just its part of the game and really i personally find no pride or fun in changing a game to suit what is best for me personally. Its a lot more gratifying to have problems with something and then master it. I just think too many ppl..like with the ban algol and what not...just want an easy way out of having to deal with something. But i do have another question.. what do you mean "what happened behind the scenes?" I mean.. i know what you are SAYING.. I just kinda wonder what would indicate someone being "just a spammer" or being "good."
 
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