Why does Algol get alot of crap?

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BelovedChild

BelovedChild

[09] Warrior
This isn't a ban/complaint thread, and I'm only mentioning her name(HIIIILLLLDDDDEEEEEEEE) because I want to say this has NOTHING to do with her.

I've played quite a few Hilde's but I've NEVER come across a good Algol player. What's Algol have that is driving people mad? Bubble spamming Algol's are not that hard to deal with, and I'm just an okay player, so I know that's not the problem.

Do experts have problems facing Algol's of slightly lesser or equal skill level? Isn't he very unsafe? His sidestep is terrible, etc

I'm just curious as to what kind of gameplay makes this guy so dangerous o_o...

Ruiner
 
innovation tends to come with a price

pros:
best BB
best backdash
bubbles
high damage normal hit combos
fast 2A interrupt and FC punish
huge range on pokes, including lows
good tracking options
can be played safely while still doing good damage
generally good at preventing comebacks
beats down a lot of characters badly

cons:
throw range is crap
no fast lows with advantage or knockdown on normal hit
oki is lame
sidestep is worst in the game by far
generally bad at making comebacks
run sucks, dash is short (this affects comeback ability)
can only really RO to the front (his bad sidestep is a factor here too)
wallcombo ability sucks



I came up with more cons than expected. Oh well he's still top tier anyway, just doesn't dominate for free.
 
I see o_o....this is all good information, but it's still not telling me WHY people are talking about him almost the same way they talk about Hilde.

Hilde has the "doom combo", what's Algol got? Don't say "bubbles", because it doesn't compare.

Ruiner
 
BelovedChild said:
I see o_o....this is all good information, but it's still not telling me WHY people are talking about him almost the same way they talk about Hilde.

Hilde has the "doom combo", what's Algol got? Don't say "bubbles", because it doesn't compare.

Ruiner
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um...just curious but isn't that all Hilde has?Or have have I been mistaken in my defense of it?)0.0(I thought that was her only good move/combo)
 
I previously thought that in theory it's impossible for Yoda to defeat a bubble spamming Algol.

I put that theory to the test yesterday in an offline match, I used Yoda and I fought an Algol player who was spamming bubbles. It wasn't as hard or impossible as I previously thought. If Yoda can beat him, then so can anyone else. People need to stop complaining and spend some time in training mode.
 
Well versus most chars 4(A+B) spam can be a pain in the ass especially when the clock is running down but I dont see that as a reason to ban him.
 
OOFMATIC said:
I previously thought that in theory it's impossible for Yoda to defeat a bubble spamming Algol.

I put that theory to the test yesterday in an offline match, I used Yoda and I fought an Algol player who was spamming bubbles. It wasn't as hard or impossible as I previously thought. If Yoda can beat him, then so can anyone else. People need to stop complaining and spend some time in training mode.
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Was he using the teleport as well ?
 
Hilde has a really good sidestep, other solid RO options outside of her charges, great range....

It's not her other stuff that makes her so hated, it's just the Doom Combo. I'm not going into Hilde anymore then this because I don't want this to turn into a Hilde debate.

Ruiner
 
It isn't bubble spam by itself that's problematic. If someone just fires bubbles all game long there's plenty of ways to counter it. Bubble spam used in a way that it covers other moves or bounces off of walls, or juggles you for 15 minutes, is kinda a bunch of crap.

That and projectiles in SC4 just don't belong. It's like making a SF4 character that can sidestep.

That said, I don't support banning him or anyone else. I just wouldn't have made him that way, and I'd take the bubbles away for SC5 if I was designing it.
 
Reason Algol is hated, is the same reason Hilde is hated. The gameplay is "boring"
Doom combo is boring because it's an easy win, no "skill" involved.
Algol is boring because bubble spam makes most matches longer than "LONGCAT"
 
Tiamat said:
cons:
throw range is crap
no fast lows with advantage or knockdown on normal hit
generally bad at making comebacks
I came up with more cons than expected. Oh well he's still top tier anyway, just doesn't dominate for free.
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his throw range really doesn't play a factor.
he doesn't need lows with those properties, that'd just make him more broke than he already is.
bad at making comebacks? hell no!, he's like the best character for that shit, besides Hilde of course.

OOFMATIC said:
I previously thought that in theory it's impossible for Yoda to defeat a bubble spamming Algol.

I put that theory to the test yesterday in an offline match, I used Yoda and I fought an Algol player who was spamming bubbles. It wasn't as hard or impossible as I previously thought. If Yoda can beat him, then so can anyone else. People need to stop complaining and spend some time in training mode.
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Come on Oof. You have to keep in mind how good this Algol player was, how good he was at using Algol, and how well he knows how to play against Yoda.

And Hilde is broke not only cause she has the "doom combo", but cause she can do the "doom combo" out of a few different starting moves, and about all of those moves either give her advantage or push you back far enough to where she can backstep and try to do the shit again, and if you attempt to grab her, she can do the "doom combo". If you attack her, she can do the "doom combo" with the auto-GI one. Don't even think about whiffing or getting anything stepped (she has the fastest step in the game).

So Algol is broke cause he can space and be the best long range character, and at the same time be one of the best if not the best close range character. Algol is hard to touch, and Hilde's every hit is the touch of death.
 
The reason why Algol is hated is because some characters have nearly zero chance to approach a bubble spamming Algol.
If you start getting closer, he can stop you with 1A and you're back to where you started.
Obviously, characters with either huge range, or quick attacks with long range, or useful special movement can deal with Algol more easily than others, which is why opinions differ. People don't realize that not everyone has a tool to deal with that.
 
sWoRD_LoRD said:
his throw range really doesn't play a factor.
he doesn't need lows with those properties, that'd just make him more broke than he already is.
bad at making comebacks? hell no!, he's like the best character for that shit, besides Hilde of course.
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Obviously he doesn't NEED better lows, as he's top tier anyway. Throw range IS a factor, just as much as having better mixup lows would be. A lot of characters have weak mixup lows and/or small grab range but these are weaknesses nonetheless.

Algol is weak at comeback ability against a GOOD TURTLE player (using a character who is worth a damn against algol). THIS is where the BAD throw range, and lame mixup lows come into play, in addition to his crappy forward dash and run. If they are smart they SHOULD turtle up when they have a nice health lead on Algol. As long as you don't eat his mids you're FINE and he'll have trouble making that comeback.
 
and his CF game isn't good enough to stop them from turtling (and don't take online as counting...his 11A low is NOT gonna fucking hit you offline like it does online)

He is NOT good at comebacks...he is DECENT at them. And don't count his "insta kill" Oof crap as something to make him godly...you don't hit that shit often at ALL.

honestly runis is spot on. Its because hilde shortens the match too much but at the same time makes it so you HAVE to turtle...to an annoying extent. And algol bubbles make matches last longer than usual. It "bores" the game. But that doesn't make either broken. I can see the hilde talk but I've never gotten the algol talk. He's good yes..as tiamat said, but he has disadvantages and is not a ringout god (although front ringout he still is an above average ringout game (dangerous). He can't close the distance fast, which destroys rushdown and oki game. His throw game has no ringouts, average damage, and generally keeps people to either A or B throwing (tend not to throw at all really..). He's good...very good..but broken? no..no not really. To say that a certain match-up is almost/is impossible isn't a reason to say he's ban-worth or godly. Tons of games and characters have this "advantage" over another given character. Ivy destroys certain characters, but nobody says she is god-tier for that. Rock actually, to some extent, has an adv. over hilde, but I'd laugh if someone said he was a better character than her.

one thing that has been annoying me against algol (its my fault for not having adapted quicker...but it wasn't costing me matches or anything) is using low taps ...getting hit with them to give him frame advantage..then keep hitting with 1 a until at some point I try to retaliate at which point his 6236 B(shory B...whatever..lol) counter is used. the move tc, AND impacts lows and mids..lol. but is very punishable.

which leads me to say...usually against algol..if you are getting DESTROYED...its your fault..not the fact that algol is some uber-god character. Boss character good. But not Bison insta kill good. Speaking of old SF games... look at how people ALWAYS find a way AROUND the spam or insta kills and what not. Sure, sadly it leaves few characters "playable" but a SF2 E.Honda should not be beating Sagat anyway... (if they are both of equal skill with their character).
 
sWoRD_LoRD said:
Come on Oof. You have to keep in mind how good this Algol player was, how good he was at using Algol, and how well he knows how to play against Yoda.
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So what are you implying that my competition is no good? Maybe you should come to Canada and play some of the players here before you start assuming that they don't know how to use or fight against certain characters.

After some more Algol fights today I believe that Yoda has an easier time against Algol than Talim does, because he has more and better ways to deal with the bubble shield (string jumping over low bubbles, rolling under high bubbles).

Papy_Danone: Using teleport is a risky thing to do and should only be done at specific times against Yoda, otherwise the teleport will bring Algol close to Yoda which would only benefit the Yoda player. Once Yoda gets in on Algol, Algol gets f****ed because Algol's close up game is shitty, especially against Yoda.
 
yeah algol's comeback ability is questionable, maybe not "bad" but depends what you mean by bad I suppose. I'm sure it's not as good as asta, amy, or nightmare.

about the ring outs (which is a factor in comeback ability), his front RO is pretty nice mostly because of aB and 66A (non juggle use). However, sidestep is a BIG factor for ring out ability. His step is so slow and covers so little distance that it is extremely difficult to change positions with the opponent quickly and RO.

gator: his throw damage is actually well above average. both normal grabs do 55 and his command grab does 65, that is quite strong. it's much like lizardman in that his throws do very strong damage but they have poor range, so you can't land them as much as others with better grab range
 
i said his grab range doesn't matter cause he can lock you down with the threat of a few of his attacks, not do them, and get as close as he wants before doing a mixup, unlike some characters. his comeback is great cause his grabs are great and folks don't wanna be caught ducking him. also his backstep and bubbles aid in his comeback ability.
Algol's close-up game is shitty Oof? maybe against Yoda but against anyone else, the shit is superb.
 
OOFMATIC said:
After some more Algol fights today I believe that Yoda has an easier time against Algol than Talim does, because he has more and better ways to deal with the bubble shield (string jumping over low bubbles, rolling under high bubbles).

Papy_Danone: Using teleport is a risky thing to do and should only be done at specific times against Yoda, otherwise the teleport will bring Algol close to Yoda which would only benefit the Yoda player. Once Yoda gets in on Algol, Algol gets f****ed because Algol's close up game is shitty, especially against Yoda.
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I still think this is unrealistic. I play online against an Algol who knows my Yoda pretty well now. Basically what he does is stay at mid/long range and alternates shooting mid/low bubbles (the fast ones mostly). He pays attention to what I'm doing and if i ever manage to get past a mid bubble (using the roll, which is IMO the only viable way to get close to him), he teleports right away. And that shit goes far in your back ! On top of that the roll is not over and keeps carrying you away in the opposite direction. By the time you turn your back there are already bubbles coming at you. And all the work is to be redone...

I'd really like to watch u play against this Algol or play him myself coz til I witness it I'll still think it's an impossible battle. Please send an invite next time on PSN ;)
 
Papy - i think the only reason it teleports so far is cuz of the fact that your rolling towards him...he will teleport where u started off at...not sure tho!
 
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