Why is Mina considered low-tier?

Status
Not open for further replies.

PolarPanda

[08] Mercenary
Seriously, why? Maybe it was just my luck but (and I don´t even play with her that much) I usually manage to beat people with her. She has a good range, is pretty quick and her attacks are quite strong.

Or not?
 

GATOR

[09] Warrior
first off ...who are you "beating" with her? If you mean the scrubby ppl that tend to be 80% of the ppl online then thats not saying much. and yea...she really is pretty bad. But jsut because someoen is bad doesn't mean you CAN'T win.. just means its really hard to do so. Now... you'd probably lose 100% of the time to a good player using someone else just because they are better than you. But the fact that she's bad enough to make u lose when playing say...a cervy...who is the "same skill lvl" as you...that is why she is bad

linear...weak...NOT very fast...her only REAL plus is she does good soul gauge damage and even that isn't as god as it could should be.

In short.. play a decently good player offline...and you'll probably get ur ass handed to you based not necessarily because of your character...but it doesn't help..lol
 

agilefalcon16

[08] Mercenary
Now... you'd probably lose 100% of the time to a good player using someone else just because they are better than you. But the fact that she's bad enough to make u lose when playing say...a cervy...who is the "same skill lvl" as you...that is why she is bad
Ugh, I'm sick of people who claim with absolute certainty that the person who uses the higher tier character will win 100% of the time. If there are two players of a similar skill level fighting against each other, then sure, the guy with the higher tier character will most likely have the upper hand. However, this DOES NOT mean that he will win 100% of the time.

I swear, people are taking this "tier" thing way too far...
 

REVAS1601

[09] Warrior
I agree about taking tiers way to far...
Tiers are nice to look at, but the mindgame is always over any tier...which is the basics for Soul Calibur..

"Theory Fighting" is destroyed the moment one GI, JI is made...it makes it possible to turn the tide on any fight. Or well placed stepping...or grab cancels...

Live in the fight, not in the frames or in the tiers.
 

hellbottom

それであなたがたは,主の恩恵のどれを嘘と言うのか。
"Live in the fight, not in the frames or in the tiers"

without knowing what moves to punish or what not you're nothing, that's why we study frames.
 

REVAS1601

[09] Warrior
"Live in the fight, not in the frames or in the tiers"

without knowing what moves to punish or what not you're nothing, that's why we study frames.
I actually learned my main characters fastest moves on block and hit on my own...I didn't need frame data for that. After looking at it though it does H E L P on certain gameplay ideas for a character, but the bread and butter of this game always wins out.

B4 I studied frames I fought a fighter that knew all my characters frames, and let me know how awful my fighting style was...but guess who won 4 times in a row (he eventually left)...I did. Frames did nothing for him since I had good old experince behind me...

If someone is always Guard Impacting my fast hits, just change it up with a lag hit...frames don't have to tell you that, inuitive fighting does....just because a move is bad on frames doesn't mean you should never use it, just when the time is right...inuitive fighting tells you that...again frames can give an idea...but any good fighter with some solid experince behind their character will always win out over what "frame data" you know.
 

hellbottom

それであなたがたは,主の恩恵のどれを嘘と言うのか。
knowing frame data alone does nothing if u have no real life experience, that's a given.
playing some1 with the same amount of experience is what matters.
 

REVAS1601

[09] Warrior
Right, my point in the comment you quoted before is...use all this information to help you, but don't lose sight in the actual fight itself. If you know that hitting after a certain move gives you frame advantage always works, and someone guard impacts, well then knowing that hurt your style. Also the opponent didn't need to know your frame data, just that you seem to hit suddenly after that sequence....

Your ability to adapt is the winning strategy, or AKA living in the fight.
 

page

[11] Champion
Do you really need to ask? She's just got more disadvantages than advantages. She's not a horrible character, and you can still win with her at any level, but she's not Kilik and she's not Amy. She's not even Sophie. Simply, the risk vs rewards for her damage is not very good, and you need to be VERY particular to apply her CF game against most characters.

Still, Mina is top tier in our hearts.
 

SimpLCT

[08] Mercenary
lolz,,,,some of us driving it way to far to the (TIERS) road,,,,

jusr believe in yourself first,,,second,,understand what Mina is asking about ,,,is it range,,,is it frame thingy...
 

PolarPanda

[08] Mercenary
Now now, I don´t really bother with tiers, but everyone else here sems to be (hence the almost quadrillion topics about them) and because I don´t quite understand the classification of high/low tiering, I was just wondering why people put Mina on the lower side. Because yeah, and I agree 100% with the fact that any character can beat any other, when you have the skills. But still people preffer and choose top tier characters because they are top tier, not because they have skills with them.

Okay , I´ll stroll down the other Mina topic, but thanks for the info guys.

Aaand to answer the "what kind of ppl I beat with her" it´s probably just luck, but it happens to me more often than it probably should and that is that when I have a match w/ someone, and I can´t beat him with my mains, I just pick up mina afterwards and violá - I win. Probably irony paradox...
 

GATOR

[09] Warrior
Ugh, I'm sick of people who claim with absolute certainty that the person who uses the higher tier character will win 100% of the time. If there are two players of a similar skill level fighting against each other, then sure, the guy with the higher tier character will most likely have the upper hand. However, this DOES NOT mean that he will win 100% of the time.

I swear, people are taking this "tier" thing way too far...
I didn't say that.. please read what people wrote. I said a better player using a better character is going to win 100% of the time. But that if someone is of the same skill as you and you are using an inferior character to them then you are going to lose. Please please read before u post like an uppity...person.



Do you really need to ask? She's just got more disadvantages than advantages. She's not a horrible character, and you can still win with her at any level, but she's not Kilik and she's not Amy. She's not even Sophie. Simply, the risk vs rewards for her damage is not very good, and you need to be VERY particular to apply her CF game against most characters.

Still, Mina is top tier in our hearts.
Thats what I said in a different way..minus the in our hearts part...

Now now, I don´t really bother with tiers, but everyone else here sems to be (hence the almost quadrillion topics about them) and because I don´t quite understand the classification of high/low tiering, I was just wondering why people put Mina on the lower side. Because yeah, and I agree 100% with the fact that any character can beat any other, when you have the skills. But still people preffer and choose top tier characters because they are top tier, not because they have skills with them.

Okay , I´ll stroll down the other Mina topic, but thanks for the info guys.

Aaand to answer the "what kind of ppl I beat with her" it´s probably just luck, but it happens to me more often than it probably should and that is that when I have a match w/ someone, and I can´t beat him with my mains, I just pick up mina afterwards and violá - I win. Probably irony paradox...
irony paradox?? ehh?? annnnyyyway... I already said why. She is linear, so isn't very fast..and she doesn't combo well. She doesn't have great stuns...her lows are either short range or readable. Her soul gauge damage is good but its not as good as..say..voldo who has pretty much the top soul gauge damage in the game. She relies on keeping opponents away..but once u learn to read her almost at all...she has a VERY hard time keeping to her gameplan. And unlike some characters...she really CAN'T play any other game than keepout. So if she fails at that..she FAILS..hard.

And while you people jump so damn much..maybe you posting past ur bedtimes...I'm one of the ppl you'll see talking a lot of "its the player not the character...the character is but a start." Thing is...you asked why ppl think she is bad. And I answered. As I restated above. It has nothing to do with tiers... in fact... I am pretty sure looking back I didn't use the word tier...at all...some other ...person...brought it up. I was answering your question and I guess to some extent its not your fault that you didn't get what I was saying because the posts after mine were twisting shit for the sake of twisting. I don't care about tiers..you didn't ask about tiers..leave it at that. She is just not a good character and you probably are winning from A: lag...B: the other person not being very good C:?? or D: the person doesn't know ANYTHING about mina. Ask any other "top" player offline..hell..even a DECENTLY good player offline and they'll say that mina really is not gonna be winning any tourney's soon unless someone with amazing skills comes along (which will be him/her winning in SPITE of the character...not BECAUSE of). She's not very safe...her pokes are slow...she doesn't punish hard...leave it at that.

Anyone can beat anyone on any given sunday...but the character..team..WHATEVER...that is better will win more often if the playing ground (skill lvl...) is the same.

BLAH BLAH BLAH...mina sucks...BLAH BLAH BLAH ..lol
 

PolarPanda

[08] Mercenary
I didn't say that.. please read what people wrote. I said a better player using a better character is going to win 100% of the time. But that if someone is of the same skill as you and you are using an inferior character to them then you are going to lose. Please please read before u post like an uppity...person.





Thats what I said in a different way..minus the in our hearts part...



irony paradox?? ehh?? annnnyyyway... I already said why. She is linear, so isn't very fast..and she doesn't combo well. She doesn't have great stuns...her lows are either short range or readable. Her soul gauge damage is good but its not as good as..say..voldo who has pretty much the top soul gauge damage in the game. She relies on keeping opponents away..but once u learn to read her almost at all...she has a VERY hard time keeping to her gameplan. And unlike some characters...she really CAN'T play any other game than keepout. So if she fails at that..she FAILS..hard.

And while you people jump so damn much..maybe you posting past ur bedtimes...I'm one of the ppl you'll see talking a lot of "its the player not the character...the character is but a start." Thing is...you asked why ppl think she is bad. And I answered. As I restated above. It has nothing to do with tiers... in fact... I am pretty sure looking back I didn't use the word tier...at all...some other ...person...brought it up. I was answering your question and I guess to some extent its not your fault that you didn't get what I was saying because the posts after mine were twisting shit for the sake of twisting. I don't care about tiers..you didn't ask about tiers..leave it at that. She is just not a good character and you probably are winning from A: lag...B: the other person not being very good C:?? or D: the person doesn't know ANYTHING about mina. Ask any other "top" player offline..hell..even a DECENTLY good player offline and they'll say that mina really is not gonna be winning any tourney's soon unless someone with amazing skills comes along (which will be him/her winning in SPITE of the character...not BECAUSE of). She's not very safe...her pokes are slow...she doesn't punish hard...leave it at that.

Anyone can beat anyone on any given sunday...but the character..team..WHATEVER...that is better will win more often if the playing ground (skill lvl...) is the same.

BLAH BLAH BLAH...mina sucks...BLAH BLAH BLAH ..lol
Yeah well, I just asked why she is considered not as good as the rest. I just wanted to hear like bad soul gage, slow, not great combos, etc....which was said. The rest of post...well, thanks for input, I guess.
 

agilefalcon16

[08] Mercenary
I didn't say that.. please read what people wrote. I said a better player using a better character is going to win 100% of the time. But that if someone is of the same skill as you and you are using an inferior character to them then you are going to lose. Please please read before u post like an uppity...person.
*sigh*

I've already said it once, but it looks like I'm going to have to say it again. You cannot say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the "better player using a better character is going to win 100% of the time". Like REVAS1601 said a few posts back, a simple GI or a failed grab could easily turn the tide of a fight.

Remember, people aren't computers, even the best can screw up at times. And these screw ups can easily give the "inferior" player the upper hand in a battle. Sure, the better player with the better character will likely win MOST of time, but it's impossible for that person to win ALL of the time.
 

GATOR

[09] Warrior
..mm..i'm sorry.. I posted that without sleep. I should have said "NEARLY 100% of the time"...obviously nothing in life is certain. My second post wasn't making a comment as much on the fact that the better player with the better character wins 100% of the time, rather I was commenting on the fact that u were saying that I was saying that I think the better CHARACTER wins all the time.
 

hotnikkelz

johNNy blaZe
I'm actually liking Mina quite a bit lately...i've adjusted my style a bit with a lot of success. Whoever says that she's linear needs to go through her completely again. She's not linear at all. Just unsafe.
 

BelovedChild

[09] Warrior
so Her keep away game is very weak? Kilik's is better in every way?

Compare KILIK to MINA real quick for me, what CAN MINA DO, that Kilik can't?

o_O....

O_o.......
 

stardustwla

[08] Mercenary
One part of mina is better than kilik......kilik very strong on holding space......
And Mina is strong on 8 way-kill.

Mina 8way-kill style make her very easy on Attack + GI + CF
e.g
66A and 22/88A both can use when mina running, it makes your opponent cannot move easily.
If your opponent cannot move and playing defense
= 66/44A+B for CF / throw
(66A+B is -13 on block = you have i15 to i24 GI window waiting opponent attack, GI = CF).
If your opponent try to attack back on reaction(using move with auto GI A/B/etc....)
= very easy to do 66K CH combo.
= very easy to playing punishment(many auto GI's move is unsave)
If your opponent try to GI your running style setup(on reaction)
= you have many chance to throw, after throw = 8B+K/throw setup again, If all these move on block,
you still have 4A to get away......and wait for second chance to make these setup again.

And one very important things, VS different character stance........
I think most of the kilik will do B+K combo. But B+K combo fail = losing blood........
Mina also have B+K, it is TJ........2 hits on block JUST -16.5 frame, (it can crouh throw but cannot block i16 punish)
and B+K is the most heavest CF killer in the game......


In my opinion, Mina is a very deep character, it is absolutely not the most low-tier..........
but vs raphael.........hahahaha..................she need more more luck..................=_=
 

krazySyko

[09] Warrior
Thing is her step killers aren't the greatest. 66A is one side only, not all the way around, 22/88A are somewhat limited, 33/77AA is slow, GI interruptable, and im not sure how safe/unsafe it is. Kilik has things like 66AA, 6AAA, Asura (tracks, auto GI's, tech jumps, etc.)

Mina really is bottom, unfortunately (though we love her anyways).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.