Woof-Woof: Ultimate Guide to ZWEI

What to do if my friends (who I play SCV against) are already aware of all of my Zwei traps and use a poke anytime I don't instantly release Ein during 4A] and 1B] to interrupt possible setups? Is there any way to go around this? There seems to be an awful lot of moves that Zwei can't guard against on a held 1A]/1B] even on hit, namely aPat's Twister (aPat is my friend's main).

My main used setups were:
4A], 214B~3B, A+B
4A], 2B, WR B, BT B+K, G, 1K* etc
 
Requiem said:
What to do if my friends (who I play SCV against) are already aware of all of my Zwei traps and use a poke anytime I don't instantly release Ein during 4A] and 1B] to interrupt possible setups? Is there any way to go around this? There seems to be an awful lot of moves that Zwei can't guard against on a held 1A]/1B] even on hit, namely aPat's Twister (aPat is my friend's main).

My main used setups were:
4A], 214B~3B, A+B
4A], 2B, WR B, BT B+K, G, 1K* etc
Click to expand...

If you want to use those setups, you have to train your opponent to want to block against :4::(A): as much as possible, and that means utilizing it as a frame trap. :4::(A):(until E.I.N appears),:3::A:(BE),:(6)::A::+::B:,:2::K: is a solid 101 damage off of a frame trap that's hard to ignore, the fact that you control the frame in which E.I.N is released really sweetens the deal.

But as for Alpha's punishment, remember that :4::(A): gives you +8 on block, so you'll want your attack to generally be around 18-20 frames or so to avoid harder punishment. http://8wayrun.com/wiki/z-w-e-i-frame-data-sc5/ to make your own devious frame traps :)
 
Zane said:
I found out new stuff. Check this out.
In mid air, B+K can be devastating, but you need bars for this one.
.
Click to expand...
what are your setups to start these combos? it doesn't work with CE! and please don't tell me "when you randomly hit a jumping opponent"
 
Those are mega situational, I mean how often is an opponent going to see the B+K BE animation and then jump into a B+K for you? Actually they're not even situational, because I don't think that situation would ever occur. If it ever does I'll probably be too busy going "did that just happen?" to capitalize on it.
 
B+K alone on a mid-air opponent sounds neat. Noticed how that move works on them but did not messed around it yet. Of course it will be good only on those particular characters or situations.

Though I can't see how would you perform B+K on a mid-air opponent and connect it with B+K* after. Jumping over 44A is rather pointless since this is such a bad move itself, that it can be either punished or outranged. Of course Ein will keep you safe during this move and will backdash-kill your opponent but I dont think any of those better players will be "afraid" of 44A and even more doubtfully will jump over it. They may simply blosk since B+K* is Smid (which I find myself kinda sad)

B+K on mid air? Yes, in some situations it is something you can depend on
B+K on mid-air after B+K*? Rather impossible to do in a fight but really interesting outside it. For combo movies etc.
 
I did get the B+K on mid air sometimes, and especially versus smart player who jump sometimes on wakeuping to reduce your option and takes little damage. (one times I remember that Saitoh's Astaroth tryed a 8B and get launched, that why I founded this strange combo)

I didn't played the game for a while, but I still think that B+K is a good move, especially with the delay trick B+K:BE~B+K

I'am really happy to see that a lot's of people still research on ZWEI, and founds good things. The 4[A] 2B WS B setups sounds very good :P

Also, how you setup exactly the 6B+K with 214B to become an unblocable?

Did someone found an interresting application of the 6B+K delay A or CHSTUN A ?

Hope to replay him one day, keep the good works :)
 
Zane said:
Well, thank you Hayate for clarifying that IT IS possible to land that combo. I've landed it a couple of times myself.
Now, for the 6(B+K) UB set up, you have to do 314 at the time you're holding B+K, and then right when you let go of it you input B. So like this: 6(B+K) 214 (let go B+K) B. And the B will hit before Ein, making it an unblockable
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first i think is 214B......and yes, the same to do with 66[A+B]>214B..........you just release A+B when you want to hit B button inside knife fiend.
 
Zane said:
Precisely. Also, the guide said (B+G) was an ukemi trap by using 2A....? how does that even work? as long as you're holding Ein you're not allowed to move and if you release him you have to wait for the recovery. The guide might be wrong or I'm just not doing it right. Anyone done this before?
Click to expand...

i dont remember but i think is a matter of timing, you dont have to wait to much to release EIN, i have to test things like this in practice mode
 
I'm pretty certain that this is just another silly over situationally dead end gimmick, but I noticed 44B (without Ein) puts airborne opponents into a unique stun state. This is possible by doing 66(A+B) 44B and 4(A) 44B (The timing is tricky). It might also be possible with an airborne B+K launch. Don't know.

Edit: Also can we get more stuff in the wiki? 66A+B is still listed as being +15. It would also be useful to know the block disadvantage of certain moves without Ein.
 
do you tell me I can use 44B with delay EIN in 66A+B ? if this is right then good find
the only combos I know I can use 44B in is : 4A], 44B, manually release ein, zwei hit after... or B+K] BE, 3B, run, 44B...but both are not practical in real matches
 
Kudos for trying to get something out of a seemingly unusable move. I like the unblockable property of 44(B), but it is ultra slow. It might work on someone who likes to get up and block on wakeup. There's a "wtf is this?" factor too, like I use Z.W.E.I. but in a mirror match I will eat the latter parts of the 6B+K series because of nervous energy and because I almost never see those moves so fail to react when I do encounter them. So a move like 44(B) is decent, in a worth-trying-once-in-a-blue-moon kind of way.
 
Well, 44B is ridiculously slow and not damaging enough to comensate such a long execution.
Could as well use 4B+K instead. But the question why still remains
 
I have stuff for the wiki:

44B without Ein breaks in 6. Looks like Ein doesn't really do that much work gauge-wise.
44(B) without Ein also breaks in 6.
Also in case you guys didn't know 44B without Ein is untechable after an air hit. The stun afterwards lets 1K BE or B+K combo. It isn't a bad B+K BE setup either. Back rolling beats it some what, but not for free.
44B is -11 on block.
44(B) is -11 on block as well.

66A+B without Ein breaks in 8.
66A+B without Ein is -19 on block.
 
So, besides the hold range which still makes me cringe in my sleep, ZWEI has a pretty solid hold game. Care to share any tricks you've learned? do you do another hold on those who tech out of b+g? Have you got any lead ups to holds? such as 236B or 66aBE 236b.... dose any one know how much frame advantage B+G] gives on block? (my subtle reason for making this thread, despite the move being considered a total gimmick....)

go ahead and discuss..... and scrutinize me for making an unnecessary thread while your at it
 
So, im reading thru some stuff I missed.... some one said you can move while charging EIN with B+G.... This is NOT true..... you must have bindings on left trigger and are holding G along with the B..... try hitting B+G and holding the actual B instead of your trigger
 
Hey there guys, im new on these forums but no slouch in terms of gameplay (i'm a bit of a combo maniac "XD) so i just thought i'd ask your opinion on using the 66A+B unblockable setup as a good reset against an opponent who has been hit by a meterless wall combo ending in 66A+B(hold). i'm gonna be making a video detailing this and i wanted to get my tips to be correct and not get mauled by people saying it doesn't work...
 
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