Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde thread

Sora

Sora

[11] Champion
Well, since the whole banning talks are now over, I'm guessing its now time to find out what actually works AGAINST this goddess of a character.

I'l give out my own opinions, people can tell me if I'm right or wrong on these and can add their own as well.

1. Throws work to an -extent-. Yes, even on throw break, the throw already did the job due to resetting Hilde's charges. However, one whiffed throw usually means eating a charge attack outright or at best, dealing with a mixup that leads to a charge attack. And was with almost all of Hilde's charged attacks, eating them is -not- an option.

2. C3A is a good move by itself and can scare people to not duck at all. Moreover, she gets effectively an i10 2A even on block. Therefore, attacking her out of C3A, or any of her other decent charges is not advised. BUT, seeing as the charges are on Hilde's advantage, you could probably GI her followup move with more success than GI-ing her charges directly.

3. If you're going to step, its advised to step on her right or her sword side (correct me if I'm wrong). This is the only way to step her C2B. Step-guard is your best friend.

4. Lastly, and I think this is more of a psyche thing; Hilde is a tremendous character and can freeze you up especially in a tournament setting. Don't fall for that trap, for the last thing you want to do is to stand there just blocking all day. Proper step and safe attacking options is the way to go; more than half of the Hilde videos I watched where the Hilde lost was really due to successful poking and an ironclad defense.

I have to study Hilde more myself to add more technical details, but this is a start.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

really anyone who has not played a decent hilde is going to eat the death combo a few times before you can start to see where it comes from.

i know what i said wasnt overly constructive but i really think the only way to beat a decent hilde is to know most of her move set so you know when the player is going to set up those evil combos.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

just cause SWBeta closed the thread does not mean the debates are over, it just means they will take place elsewhere

here are my top 2 anti hilde strats:
1. don't get hit
2. use body attacks to beat auto GIs
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Tiamat said:
just cause SWBeta closed the thread does not mean the debates are over, it just means they will take place elsewhere

here are my top 2 anti hilde strats:
1. don't get hit
2. use body attacks to beat auto GIs
Click to expand...

Hopefully they don't. It's getting old for me at least.

However, I agree 100% with #2 (#1 is a given). Any decent K move will definitely find its use against a Hilde.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

number 1 is a joke but also kinda serious

and remember...body attack does NOT have to be a "K" move...for example, Algol aB is a shouder ram and that is a body attack. do some research with your respective characters to find your body attack options
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

when she's at range her only options are essentially mid. if she's not charging (like, say, at the start of a round), almost all of her ranged options are easily stepped. if you know she's charging, don't be impatient and rush in guns blazing.

stepping right steps her b options, stepping left steps her a options. you can step guard her b's, but you cannot step guard her a's... you need every bit of that step in order to make the a's whiff. if you do step her a's, you're at her side, really close, with quite a few frames to do some damage to her.

3ba is duckable, and the first and last hit of 6bbb can also be ducked; if you ever block the last hit of either of these you deserve to hit yourself. outside of 2k and 1k her lows are pretty telegraphed, they are, however, mostly safe as well (2b+k and 2a+k are anyways), but they are also short-ranged. tj'ing would probably be your best option. 1kk isn't safe on block, so you're better off taking the chip and not risking more damage when you could block and punish (unless you're sure your opponent won't use it).

she has more to her ro's than are particular juggle that i won't mention, however, most of her ro's are essentially front. b+g is the ryu/ken throw that ro's behind, but other than that i wouldn't worry about regular moves ro'ing you. if you get her to the edge of the ring, get that finger ready on b for the break.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Tiamat said:
number 1 is a joke but also kinda serious

and remember...body attack does NOT have to be a "K" move...for example, Algol aB is a shouder ram and that is a body attack. do some research with your respective characters to find your body attack options
Click to expand...

It's not just body attacks Tiamat, it's stab moves. Cervantes 66B for instance is what I assume to be a vertical A? Either way, I define them as stab moves and none of her charges will Auto GI them. This along with kicks can be quite effective at nullifying C3A abit more.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Amy feels like a very strong counterpick to Hilde imo. Her 6BB can poke her out of any charges she does, even on reaction, and her B+K stance will GI any of them except for her FC C3A series. 3K can also be used for interruption and leads to medium advantage (+4) on any hit, if you're consistent with it, 6:6B can also be used but I'd rather stick to 6B series and 3K. 2A is also safe and leads to major advantage (+8) on CH.

You do have to change your style from rushdown to mixup and turtling but Amy's defense and interrupt skills are strong enough in those areas that it doesn't really matter anyway.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Boring, not to rain on your parade but Amy's 6BB is not very safe as the 2nd B can be aGI'd by C3A on reaction easily.
One thing she does have is that she is harder to combo against going for her.
 
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Runis said:
Boring, not to rain on your parade but Amy's 6BB is not very safe as the 2nd B can be aGI'd by C3A on reaction easily.
One thing she does have is that she is harder to combo against going for her.
Click to expand...

I know that, which is why I'm saying it should be used as an interrupt. On CH, 6BB combos fully to the third hit and leads to +2 advantage. It's also an i11, so if you see Hilde's charge come out, you can easily 6BB the other guy in the face for the CH and free damage. Sets up for a nice mixup too.
 
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Ceirnian said:
It's not just body attacks Tiamat, it's stab moves. Cervantes 66B for instance is what I assume to be a vertical A? Either way, I define them as stab moves and none of her charges will Auto GI them. This along with kicks can be quite effective at nullifying C3A abit more.
Click to expand...

I did not know that. Do you happen to know if other characters have auto GIs that lose to stab moves as well?
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

X aGI's lose to stab I believe. but try to keep this forum more orientated towards hilde stuff.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

I meant horizontal B when I said that about the Pirates stab, thats the only way I can really assume it works.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Hello :)
If we were to discuss Anti-Hilde, I feel that it is important to take into account the difference between playing Hilde with binds, or no binds. The main difference is that Hilde with binds is a lot less vulnerable to throws, because they have the safety net of a throw break (Especially against command throws). Moreover, Hilde with binds is more likely to have a B charged up to send you to oblivion.

Still, I feel a viable strategy that hasn't been metioned yet, is the use of low attack throws if you have one. Personally, Siegfried/Nms Flapjacks and Kilik's 1A+B and 3A+B are very annoying for Hilde. Hilde can only punish both with WSK, which is shitty damage. The most I think that the Hilde can do is to forgo the punish and go for a mixup.

Against a hilde with no binds, this will be very annoying because that means that Hilde cannot charge her buttons mindlessly, or else she will get attack thrown VERY easily. This is because when the buttons is held down, it is very tough to break those throws. This will force Hilde players to reconsider charging a certain input. In fact, some players might really want to retain their charge, making them duck.... Therefore a mixup with a low attack throw and a power mid is pretty effective IMO.

So, versus a hilde with binds, its going to be less effective... BUT a charge will be reset if any of the abovementioned attack throws are applied.

opinions of this strat are much appreciated
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Hilde is a rather odd character. She requires a sort of unique approach. To be honest, i usually pick Zasalamel against Hilde. Not because there is any particular advantage that i know of, i mostly enjoy that particular matchup.

I find it best that against Hilde, people take a less "If this, then that" approach, and play more by ear. There is a level a predictability to her, but you do need to be cautious and not get too greedy when fighting her. I generally watch what moves she's using and try to predict what charge-ups she has. This is pretty easy against newer hildes because they either spam charge attacks, or they dont use them at all.

im not sure if what i just said made any sense at all, im kinda tired right now so my ideas might not be coming out... coherently lol

EDIT: Shen, it can be difficult to tell if a hilde is using binds though unless your strictly talking about tournament situations and they are changing their controls in front of you. I would think it would be distracting to look down at their hands lol. Though I think that you might have a good idea going. O_o
 
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Atomic, banning binds in a tournament is easy. We did it in OzHadou, and if you want to know if they're binding or not, just see what they do when they go to change the control scheme.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Banning binds if a whole other can of worms that this thread shouldn't even get into. It's been discussed by many fighting game communities and the same conclusion is usually met each time.

With that said, carry on.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

=P Except this time you can do something you normally can't w/o binds.

With binds: Holding charge 3A, have the option to AA and such while auto-canceling your charge 3A.
Without binds: Holding Charge 3A, have to first do something (guard, do another move, etc to let go of charge) then AA.

With that said however, it's prob only going to be a slight technical adjustment for the Hilde player to do something like tap g~release~AA, learn to let go of charge on block/hit/guard/etc not have much difference so it's not -THAT- big of a deal to get binds banned.

Anyways, back to the whole stab moves not C3 A aGI-able... what do you mean by that? If you consider Cervy 66B to be a stab move, do you mean the actual -stab- motion? But C3 A still aGIs Sophie 236B right? *confused* (Too bad Cassandra has like no fast stab move (6B is high, so it doesn't count lol)
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

You can BLOCK those attack throws though Shen and none of those prevent the Hilde player from dropping their charges as there is no need to break the throw when you can just block it.
 
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