Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde thread

Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

MJ:

I agree that those things should be blocked if you know that they are coming.

But you cant block them all the time, because there are mids to consider... Moreover Flapjack and 1A+B/3A+B are really hard to see. And when you happen to not block them because you make a wrong guess, and you realise you really need to break them (end game situation or when you REALLY need to retain the initiative), but you cant... because you are holding down both charges... The feeling can be really terrible, and you can lose not only the initiative, but also the round.

If hilde refuses to drop charges and keeps going through the match without the ability to break throws, She is playing without an important safety net, a safety net against throws that everyone else has. Eating too many of those 1A+Bs and 3A+Bs is really really painful. Considering that characters like Kilik who have Asura, WSK isnt very discouraging as a punisher IMO.
 
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So far from what I can tell:

1. Hilde is at her weakest under pressure regardless of the Hilde player being able to throw escape binding or not. Obviously it resets her charges upon throw break. Her inside options is crap because her damage output is laughable. She is only deadly because of her C3 and C2 charges (More specifically in regards to her A charges only C3A is a problem).

2. Anti-Characters so far seem to be 1. Astaroth 2. Rock 3. Amy. There may be room for more but I think these are guaranteed Anti-Characters. This is currently excluding characters who may have say a 55/45 advantage vs. her.

3. Hilde to some extent can be exploited just of stepping to your left. The only thing that she has to stop this is C3 A (However at high level play with smart thinking stepping to the left is still in advantage to the opponent). C2 A is smart against steppers as well but eating a few of those is practical.

4. Slightly off topic but in my opinion contrary to everyone else she is top tier but not #1. People are just so shocked by her psychollogically like I was the first time I fought her in a tourney. Once people actually learn her they will notice she is powerfull but manageable. The only thing that makes her a problem is no matter how much you beat her down etc. all it more often than not takes is one landed combo into a ringout.
 
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yea...of course she's not a god...just hard to play against. All there really is against her is pressure, body hits, and stepping right and thowing up guard constantly. While GI is also a good option, you need to REALLY know your gonna be able to get the GI or its just not worth the miss. You have to play insane defense against her to get a win along with a safe offense. That being said, throws are your friend (which is the main reason I'd say asty is good against her with his great throw range and high damage on those throws.

And there is a predictability to playing against her that gives you an advantage to some extent. And its better to block too much and get CF one round than to not block enough and get RO combo'ed in two rounds....just think of it like that when you are sitting there taking a lot of charge moves.
 
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Throws definitely hurt Hilde, probably more than any other character in the game.. She is so prone to throws it's not even funny, but after a while I start to duck on reaction or just duck on prediction quite a bit and punish with a C2B string which sometimes just makes the opponent pretty annoyed.

Also, tournments have now ban binds??? How are you suppose to play Hilde on a default ps3/xbox controller scheme without holding it in an awkward way >_> I can't even charge A and B at the same time since they are square and triangle :x
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

GATOR said:
yea...of course she's not a god...just hard to play against. All there really is against her is pressure, body hits, and stepping right and thowing up guard constantly. While GI is also a good option, you need to REALLY know your gonna be able to get the GI or its just not worth the miss. You have to play insane defense against her to get a win along with a safe offense. That being said, throws are your friend (which is the main reason I'd say asty is good against her with his great throw range and high damage on those throws.

And there is a predictability to playing against her that gives you an advantage to some extent. And its better to block too much and get CF one round than to not block enough and get RO combo'ed in two rounds....just think of it like that when you are sitting there taking a lot of charge moves.
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Good post, 100% agree. Played an X recently who did this very well.
 
Wreaking Havoc in Wolfkrone: The anti-Hilde th

Yep... I'd take the CF that takes a good 2 minutes worth of hitting to ensue rather than 2 RO combos for two rounds that lasted only 30 seconds.
 
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Sora was it you or Genver who suffered 2 rounds of Perfects and then RO'd himself rather than eat a CF from me when I was over there? I know it was one of you two.
 
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i beat a genvers Hilde by walking in circles because he couldn't start any combo with the B charge. I would say stepping in about mid range just out of A charge range should work but i have not fought enough hilde to be sure. also if this is a viable strat does anyone see raph as a good match up seeing as his 22_88B VE BB has a built in step?
 
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Runis said:
Sora was it you or Genver who suffered 2 rounds of Perfects and then RO'd himself rather than eat a CF from me when I was over there? I know it was one of you two.
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Runis, it hurts my feelings that you think I would do such scrubby things. MM ME NAO (free money, right?)

btw, your memory cannot be trusted.

angelic_fragment said:
i beat a genvers Hilde by walking in circles because he couldn't start any combo with the B charge. I would say stepping in about mid range just out of A charge range should work but i have not fought enough hilde to be sure. also if this is a viable strat does anyone see raph as a good match up seeing as his 22_88B VE BB has a built in step?
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Hilde step > Raphael
 
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I'm getting hit a lot by hilde's 2A
complete BS move that's really fast, low and gives positive frames to hilde on block!
which means free throw or mid
 
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Something-Unique said:
So far from what I can tell:

1. Hilde is at her weakest under pressure regardless of the Hilde player being able to throw escape binding or not. Obviously it resets her charges upon throw break. Her inside options is crap because her damage output is laughable. She is only deadly because of her C3 and C2 charges (More specifically in regards to her A charges only C3A is a problem).

2. Anti-Characters so far seem to be 1. Astaroth 2. Rock 3. Amy. There may be room for more but I think these are guaranteed Anti-Characters. This is currently excluding characters who may have say a 55/45 advantage vs. her.

3. Hilde to some extent can be exploited just of stepping to your left. The only thing that she has to stop this is C3 A (However at high level play with smart thinking stepping to the left is still in advantage to the opponent). C2 A is smart against steppers as well but eating a few of those is practical.

4. Slightly off topic but in my opinion contrary to everyone else she is top tier but not #1. People are just so shocked by her psychollogically like I was the first time I fought her in a tourney. Once people actually learn her they will notice she is powerfull but manageable. The only thing that makes her a problem is no matter how much you beat her down etc. all it more often than not takes is one landed combo into a ringout.
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1. Depends, I find myself best when pressuring the opponent as Hilde. 6A+K, 2A, 33K, 4B+K, C2 AA, she's got a lot of tools that can both break pressure on her, and push it onto the opponent. If you're getting thrown, you should be attacking if you expect it, and if you're being grabbed before active frames of a charge move, your button press to recharge the move should double as a throw break...

2. Anti characters look pretty spot on. I'd move Rock out of there because he doesn't really pose much of a threat if the Hilde player plays even an average game. Step him, launch him, just because the combo doesn't work on him doesn't mean that he's one of Hilde's best matchups. Amy definitely is, because she's so fast, the reason she's ranked very high in general is the reason she's one of Hilde's best matchups. I'd throw Siggy in there instead of Rock, for reasons I've stated before; he works best in Hilde's optimal range (C2 AA catches step, C3 B will launch, 4B+K range, mid-long). He's got a lot of long range low stepkillers, quick launcher that will end up beating out a lot of your charge moves (3B).

3. Nice thing about using C2 AA to kill step is that it resets your axis. Not a big deal, but it's a nice punisher.

4. People shit their pants when they see a doom combo. She's not #1, and people can learn to step the combo/her moves easily. It's the risk of one-mistake-lost-game that could justify her high spot. But other than that, I agree; she's easily one of the best, but probably not the end-all.
 
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neoghaleon said:
I'm getting hit a lot by hilde's 2A
complete BS move that's really fast, low and gives positive frames to hilde on block!
which means free throw or mid
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Well, what precedes the 2A? If you're trying to do something to her after a +frames charge move, that's probably why you're being hit. Otherwise, you can just use a tech jump move or one of the defense systems. I mean, it's not like it's a uniquely awesome 2A or anything.
 
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IgnisPhaseOne said:
2. Anti characters look pretty spot on. I'd move Rock out of there because he doesn't really pose much of a threat if the Hilde player plays even an average game. Step him, launch him, just because the combo doesn't work on him doesn't mean that he's one of Hilde's best match ups.
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Have to disagree there Ignis, Rock is definitely a problem for Hilde IF said Rock knows what he's doing. Just because he is slow and fairly linear does not mean he is crappy match up. First of all, we've found that Rock's throws are all 1 frame faster than normal. This means he has a i16 normal throw, compared to everyone else's i17. Crouch throw(i12) RAPES, and i mean, TOTALLY RAPES C3A(i21, TC from frame 4~5). If rock sees flash and guesses C3A correctly, you're now in his guessing game. Then there's Rock's 6K. Unlike Asta 6K, Rock's 6K seems so much safer. It also starts ground throw mind games, as well as the tech trap mind games.
You are right that hilde's Step game is far better than Rock's and she can step half his stuff (including 6K), but stepping into bear-hug will put you back onto the ground and back into throw strings.
So yes, if the hilde player is on top of their game, they can probably beat rock, but that's assuming the rock doesn't know how to play against hilde. We should ask LAU/Shen-Chan what sort of matchup rock vs Hilde is, as both HK and SG have both good rock players, and good hilde players.
 
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I disagree about Amy being a bad match up, I never understand why people think this myself but eh to each their own.
 
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Runis said:
Have to disagree there Ignis, Rock is definitely a problem for Hilde IF said Rock knows what he's doing. Just because he is slow and fairly linear does not mean he is crappy match up. First of all, we've found that Rock's throws are all 1 frame faster than normal. This means he has a i16 normal throw, compared to everyone else's i17. Crouch throw(i12) RAPES, and i mean, TOTALLY RAPES C3A(i21, TC from frame 4~5). If rock sees flash and guesses C3A correctly, you're now in his guessing game. Then there's Rock's 6K. Unlike Asta 6K, Rock's 6K seems so much safer. It also starts ground throw mind games, as well as the tech trap mind games.
You are right that hilde's Step game is far better than Rock's and she can step half his stuff (including 6K), but stepping into bear-hug will put you back onto the ground and back into throw strings.
So yes, if the hilde player is on top of their game, they can probably beat rock, but that's assuming the rock doesn't know how to play against hilde. We should ask LAU/Shen-Chan what sort of matchup rock vs Hilde is, as both HK and SG have both good rock players, and good hilde players.
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Yeah, you're probably right; haven't played against any super good Rock players, but against a lot of people that know the basics. Also, if I'm playing Hilde, they know I'm going to be an asshole, so people don't really get to "learn how to play against her..." I constantly read my opponents, mix them up. They've at least got more practice against my X, the Rock player does fairly well against her actually.

IIRC, Rock's "infinite" throw string is actually infinite unless the Hilde player breaks the ground throw, right? And the "infinite" is only with B throws, with A throws ending the infinite?

@Ceirn:
I could see Hilde's range totally destroying Amy. Fishing for CH is pretty easy if you space her out, and she tries to attack you. An Amy that steps and everything is going to whiff punish you up the ass though, and at close range, Hilde's gotta push her out so she can get her range and spacing all back.

Basically, the two matches I think are best against Hilde are Asta and Sieg. Rock and Amy are probably high, and debatable; I personally don't have any troubles with Rocks or Amys, but that's within my offline group of about 12-15 people here in central CA. I can see why Amy would give troubles, and haven't experienced a good Rock beating down on me yet.
 
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Rock's "infinite" alternates between A and B throws.
as for Amy - I have a whole list of stuff you can do, but here's a sample
AMY - Punishes
– against 1A –
FC C3BBA – (Must be punished same frame as block)
FC C2B, 44K, C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA – (same frame as block)
8K – (1-2 frame window)
8K W! FC C3AKB, 44K_B+K(B+K combo for those who can’t do the 44K one), C2BB, C3A, C2BB_4A+B(4A+B does damage, C2BB goes for RO), C2AA – (HARD COMBO)
8K W! FC C3BBA
A+B_B+G – Cannot be ducked
64B+G – (Must be buffered or opponent can duck.)
4B+K – (For RO)
.... List goes on

AMY COUNTERS
– against 1A –
9K
Jump C3B
6BBB
aGI C3A on 2nd B onwards is possible
3BA
Jump C3B – nuff said.
A+K(ANYTHING!)
If Amy does the A+K jump, just 4B+K to face.
1B also works if done just as she starts up A+K
as does 3A and 8K (8K W! throw ftw)
2A+B
Jump C3B nuff said

...list still goes on.
 
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Lets not lie, EVERYONE can beat Hilde. As much as i hate to say it( because she is the only character i use) but its true
 
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^ there is a hilde player in my state. I am surprised at this. feel free to post in the match finder forum if you want to play some people

BoringRyu said:
Amy feels like a very strong counterpick to Hilde imo. Her 6BB can poke her out of any charges she does, even on reaction
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oh my god

Runis said:
Boring, not to rain on your parade but Amy's 6BB is not very safe as the 2nd B can be aGI'd by C3A on reaction easily.
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oh my god
 
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i would like to know how you feel about maxi as a counter pick. i know he's risky but it seems the hildes i have faced seem to have trouble attcking agaisnt maxi. is it him or is it there inexperiance
 
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