Yoshimitsu Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

Guaranteed, as far as I know, and the reason most people will automatically block low when they see you go into DGF.

Qualification: Doesn't always work post DNK, from what I've seen (e.g. after near-edge/wall 3B, a:B+K, DNK, opponent can block a second 3B). []
 
Not sure if it's here but you can follow up a second DNK after, for e.g.

22_88B+K > W! > 66A BE > iMCF > RCC > 3B > W! > 2A+BB > DNK > DNK > 3B (158-168) actually does more damage than:
22_88B+K > W! > 66A BE > iMCF > RCC > 3B > W! > 2A+BB > 3B > a:B+K > DNK > 2K (150-157) without any CH.

Anyone knows if you can recover from JF 1A series like 4A? I can't do the JF 1As yet but they can hit off a wall splat unlike 4A
 
Yes, you can. 1A goes slower, try timing the second hit just before the fist hits the opponent in the face. You can recover from FC~1Kx5 (JF) as well, but you have the "random" fall for all of them.

To the DNK question, sometimes, it's the same issue with doing multiple DNK anytime after stun. The time you input DNK and the character model, it seems to work nearly all the time on size 5 characters like Astaroth, but it also seems to vary character to character.
 
I believe it probably abides by the same principle as getting bA after an iMCF. Yoshi seems to have weird problems with certain moves after crumple stuns and it makes them very character specific. Especially DNK which in itself has a lot of unique problems of its own in many situations. I'm planning to post a study I did for DNK once I get the wiki completed. Size 5s it will work on universally. If I can recall it works on some weird instances like Natsu and Tira which are Size 3 and 2 respectively. Just find my earlier work on iMCF > bA and test it out until I can get some free time to post more in-depth.
 
I looked into 4Ax5 (JF), iMCF and it does work but it's one of those special scenerios where you get hit in the face as you get the last hit, in otherwords (4AAAA)A (JF) (get hit as you hit), iMCF. I don't know if it works with 1Ax5 (JF) or FC~1Kx5 (JF) because I haven't tried, almost without question does it not work with FC~1Kx5 (JF) because does KND on hit.

bA after iMCF actually does work 100% of the time, it depends how long you hold 6 for the RCC, or at least this is what I've seen for all characters I've done it on (pretty much everyone except Edge Master). For DNK, I still get very inconsistent results on many characters like Natsu and size 2 CaS, woder if you find someting to help get a hit more often, maybe you'll find something stupid like the DNKx3 on Zasalamel in SC4.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
I looked into 4Ax5 (JF), iMCF and it does work but it's one of those special scenerios where you get hit in the face as you get the last hit, in otherwords (4AAAA)A (JF) (get hit as you hit), iMCF. I don't know if it works with 1Ax5 (JF) or FC~1Kx5 (JF) because I haven't tried, almost without question does it not work with FC~1Kx5 (JF) because does KND on hit.

bA after iMCF actually does work 100% of the time, it depends how long you hold 6 for the RCC, or at least this is what I've seen for all characters I've done it on (pretty much everyone except Edge Master). For DNK, I still get very inconsistent results on many characters like Natsu and size 2 CaS, woder if you find someting to help get a hit more often, maybe you'll find something stupid like the DNKx3 on Zasalamel in SC4.
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Have you tried bA after iMCF on Pyrrha? I'm almost positive it does not work on her with standard Size 4 Yoshi.

Also, JF4Ax5 > iMCF works naturally as long as you get the recovery and get iMCF in 1 (?) frame. It's a small window for sure none-the-less.

Check it out once it is done processing.
121 dmg! If you catch them in a step/counter hit it's all guaranteed.

Unrelated note: Yoshi in Japanese sounds like a boss.
 
Man I wonder how much damage that would do if you caught them with the 3B, a:B+K 8A+B2 tech trap...
 
Oboro said:
Man I wonder how much damage that would do if you caught them with the 3B, a:B+K 8A+B2 tech trap...
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The game wouldn't be able to comprehend it and would just auto-ban Yoshi.

The answer though is 149 with the tech trap hitting.
 
Wow 4Ax5 (JF) to iMCF in so few frame seems way harder then SC4, maybe that's what I did before when I was doing it in a match. This reminds me of CH d/f+2 PEWGF in Tekken where you have exactly 13f to pull off a 13f move, hard stuff. Can you still RCC into 3B or 1B+K, or can you only do stuff like 66B?

I thought I tried MCF, bA on Pyrrha but I'll look at it some more, but I do know it definatly works on Pyrrha Omega, size 2 3 4 5 CaS, Xiba, Ezio, Dampierre, Ivy, Siegfried, Nightmare, both Palakolos, Lizardman, and Tira. I don't think their is a special case but as I said, I will look into it.

Another question would be what does the exact orientation of he character have to be for the move to hit, when I use SDF~KK I sometimes am able to do bA to the opponents side, this may help. But CH iMCF can sometimes make your opponent fall towards you left side, don't know if it's the terrible physics or if it's supposed to do that though.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
Wow 4Ax5 (JF) to iMCF in so few frame seems way harder then SC4, maybe that's what I did before when I was doing it in a match. This reminds me of CH d/f+2 PEWGF in Tekken where you have exactly 13f to pull off a 13f move, hard stuff. Can you still RCC into 3B or 1B+K, or can you only do stuff like 66B?

I thought I tried MCF, bA on Pyrrha but I'll look at it some more, but I do know it definatly works on Pyrrha Omega, size 2 3 4 5 CaS, Xiba, Ezio, Dampierre, Ivy, Siegfried, Nightmare, both Palakolos, Lizardman, and Tira. I don't think their is a special case but as I said, I will look into it.

Another question would be what does the exact orientation of he character have to be for the move to hit, when I use SDF~KK I sometimes am able to do bA to the opponents side, this may help. But CH iMCF can sometimes make your opponent fall towards you left side, don't know if it's the terrible physics or if it's supposed to do that though.
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I didn't try on any CaS, only standard builds with a standard Yoshi. I'd really like to hear a definitive answer on whether or not I'm RCCing too slow or not on some characters. Anyone else try this?

After you hit them with iMCF after JF4Ax5 you can do any iMCF combos and they'll work fine.
 
So you can do A4x5 (JF), iMCF, RCC 1B+K, 6A+B (GB), aB+K or A4x5 (JF), iMCF, RCC 3B, A4x5 (JF) (...), aB+K, DNK, 3B.
This is great; so many options open up and things can start to get really crazy with Yoshimitsu once again.

I found you probably are doing the RCC too slow, because I did it on Pyrrha and it worked, but I can't seem to get it off very often on Yoshimitsu.

Also, did you make any progress on how DNK works?
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
So you can do A4x5 (JF), iMCF, RCC 1B+K, 6A+B (GB), aB+K or A4x5 (JF), iMCF, RCC 3B, A4x5 (JF) (...), aB+K, DNK, 3B.
This is great; so many options open up and things can start to get really crazy with Yoshimitsu once again.

I found you probably are doing the RCC too slow, because I did it on Pyrrha and it worked, but I can't seem to get it off very often on Yoshimitsu.

Also, did you make any progress on how DNK works?
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Yeah, if you continually get lucky with JF4Ax5 you can pretty much deplete a life bar if you're on point. If a patch removes the randomness of JF4A Yoshi would go from B-ish tier to top tier and probably near ban levels. DO IT NAMCO.

Give me a little bit for the DNK guide, I only have so many days off to spend lately.
 
What characters are top tier post-patch?

Also, like I remarked before, 4Ax5 (JF) is probably not random and is based off the clock, or some sort of just time. Seems to still help me and it worked pretty well in SC4 as well, if it is true I do question the reliability of the move still because it has to be forced out after LNC where they don't go as high as they did in SC4 so you can't really wait for the right time. I researched the frame data for the same kind of "random" attack with Dampierre and it turned out that he gets 5 frames where he always gets his fast sneeze and every other better version of his random moves, but he gets random moments in other frames where he sometimes gets the good attack and most of the time doesn't. As for Yoshimitsu the last hit seems to work on those last 5 frames.
 
DOCTORSTUPID said:
Also, like I remarked before, 4Ax5 (JF) is probably not random and is based off the clock, or some sort of just time.
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Hate to burst your bubble, but JF 4A, 1A, and FC1K series is random recovery no matter what. Just re-review, JF 4A and FC1K series at least have some use. 1A imho seems kinda useless except for flashy gimmicks. Because FC1K could guard break even if Yoshi doesn't recover. 4A you saw mkl show a use for it and 4A also relaunches peeps in the air so you can either follow-up with the usual Yoshi b'n'bs if you're lucky that he'll recover.

But, if you're talking about Yoshi's 4A+K which used to be all about the clock in SCIV, it's now random in SCV. And the only way to get the other Tekken moves is to GI with Yoshi's A+K.
 
Well I actually wasn't talking about 4A+K, but that brings up a wierd point. 4A+K is now really messed up and I'm not sure how random it really is. After a single Yoshi Flash (on GI or clash) I tried to time it and I got Julia's magic 4 about 10 times in a row, but nothing changes for the rest of the match, even if you use Yoshi Flash more. Although I say this with much confidence I can't truely debug SCV, if you could suggest some software to do this I'll get started, but past that all I have to work with is a computer and a capture card to look at the frames.
 
3B 4AJFs will ringout over high walls from a wide distance, random recovery or not, so it's worth mastering.

Anyone got any consistent combos against opponents in the air? I spam iMCF like crazy, so some people jump a lot against me. In SCIV, 44bB launched aerial opponents, does he have anything like that in V? or is a:B+K all he's got?
 
Yoshimitsu lost the air relaunch, all he has now is his 4Ax5 (JF), but his CE can do the same kind of carry, just not high enough to do much of any follow up, to get all the hits you have to time it as late as possible (you will not get the animation).

The moves he can do after LNC:
CE
aB+K
66[B+K]A+B
44bA
2A+B~Flea
Tech Traps
 
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