Yoshimitsu Combo & Tech Trap Discussion

[Signia]

They both are the same move, but 33A+B hits the opponent to where Yoshi is slighty on a different axis so that stun allows to iMCF combo easily.

Actually, the axis doesn't matter. 663A+B works just fine while QS~66A+B does not. They're different moves, the difference being either the stun animation, or the recovery is different.

The damage you get from 33A+B into iMCF is huge, but it's inconsistent as a sidestep whiff punish because it's slow and sometimes whiffs, especially up close, like 22B.

The best options for whiff punishes depend on range: 3B is really consistent when it reaches, 22B is consistent outside that range, and 33A+B is good for ... well I haven't had any success with it yet, I'll have to try it out.

backstep~4123 A+B would probably be good for backstepping and punishing throws... I already do 4~412B for backstep 22B.

 

[mkl]

Yeah I think they're slightly different like 66B and 33_99B are slightly different.

 

[DOCTORSTUPID]

66A+B iMCF 66B DNK 2K
66A+B 3B
66A+B 2K
66A+B 2B BE RCC 3B aB+K 1B
66A+B iMCF 66B 2(A+B)~FLE FLE~66
66A+B 2K
66A+B 22_88B
66A+B 2B BE RCC 3Ab BE aB+K 1B

 

[Frostheart]

So apparently, if you're near a wall, you can go beyond 3 JF 4AAAAAs. Tested.

 

[DOCTORSTUPID]

Do you mean while in launch or just overall in a combos? Also, when do you get the STN from 2A+BB off an aired opponent, you did this in the video?

 

[Frostheart]

While in launch. Um I don't understand the 2nd part, you mean in a wall combo or just in general? STN =stun? You can only get a groundstun off 2A+BB on an aired opponent. (edit) It might be because I'm too slow, but I'm quite certain iMCF after (CH) JF4AAAAA on standing opponent doesn't work for some characters. I tried Hilde, Siegfried, ZWEI, Natsu, Pyrrha and Viola, it doesn't combo on the last 3.

 

[Frostheart]

It's gonna be the last one for a while as I'm getting busy with work but here's a video montage of Yoshimitsu gimmicks, traps, anti-character moves and combos which has a bit of everything we have discussed and more. Hope you guys aren't tired of watching Yoshi vids :)

It's actually HD, so you can watch it in full graphical glory on the YT browser if that's your kind of thing.

 

[Gabedamien]

snip

My reaction to 93% of that video:

(But in a good way!)

Case in point, I think I did an actual double-take at 8A evading Yoshi CE. Seriously though, great vid.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Man that 218 dmg combo....so much awesome.

4B+K avoiding vertical CEs (wait, how is Yoshi's vertical?) is great, except that nobody I know uses them outside of guaranteed situations. []

 

[Frostheart]

Thanks!

snip

You got me wrong, all I did there was really just an 8A (you can actually buffer it during the CE itself and not just before, like wtf?) I doubt many people know about buffering 4B+K during CE animation though, I mean it actually leaves a free back grab punish all the time vs short vertical CEs. Too good.

Oh and I cheated on the damage lol, there was a clean hit somewhere. You can definitely do more than that if you throw in some JF4As off a 2x 6K combo though, but that's really just for style points.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Oh whoops...my mistake...

But still, it's the rare occasion that someone will use a CE outside of a guaranteed situation (i.e. in a combo), since they're all pretty punishable. []

 

[Frostheart]

True that, but no one's perfect and everyone misses the occasional one :) you can especially punish wakeup CEs or things like Xibas who throw it while fishing for a CH, without having to block. 70 dmg is more than a guaranteed 4KB punish at least

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Well I guess it all depends on the player. Like I said, if you only use them in combos, where there is no possibility of them missing (unless they drop the combo, in which case I'm still mid-combo and can't retaliate anyway), it wouldn't work, but I'll definitely have it in the back of my mind from now on. []

 

[DrDogg]

Has anyone found an all encompassing tech trap off of 44A? I can hit 3B+K or DNK, but both can be escape by teching in specific direction.

I've started to use 44A more because Yoshi is very limited when it comes to safe, horizontal mids. I'd like to get as much damage as possible when it hits.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

As I recall, FC 1KKKK tech catches all directions. Not the most damage, but that's what you get, I suppose. []

 

[Synraii]

Not sure if this has been mentioned:
Deathcopter on hit:
delayed 3B hits grounded and launches back, front and right tech.
iFC 3K catches left tech.
Dnk for unscaled damage on sleepers.

All viable in games imo.

 

[Signia]

Not sure if this has been mentioned:
Deathcopter on hit:
delayed 3B hits grounded and launches back, front and right tech.
iFC 3K catches left tech.
Dnk for unscaled damage on sleepers.

All viable in games imo.

I am getting the most peculiar followups on this move... Testing on Natsu

66A+B looks like your best guaranteed damage, though some characters can tech it right (like aPat). Delayed 3B covers that though.

DNK actually picks up and rings out but only if you take a tiny step left first? Hits guaranteed. Dat yoshi tech (Edit: I've only been able to replicate this on Natsu). How are you getting to hit sleepers?

Quick Stepping with their tech causes 3B+K and 4B to catch tech but, oddly, they won't stunned and will remain standing.

A similar lack of stun and knockdown occurs when you relaunch with 3B in a tech trap into a:B+K deathcopter. They'll just stand there despite eating the UB, with barely any pushback on hit, a good time for a surprise throw.

 

[Frostheart]

^Thanks for the weird glitchy info lol. I barely have time to check it out this week so this is pretty cool shit.

I sometimes whiff deathcopter 66A+B due to side ukemi. It's supposed to be guaranteed but somehow I still get it, though rarely. Is it character specific? (edit) oh wait, I missed out that part of your post. My bad!

Another follow up is the SCIV 2[A+B]~66 which does almost as much dmg as 66A+B and is guaranteed.

Near ring edge, use DNK after deathcopter on DARAT (this is the acronym I use to remember who it works on) - dampierre aeon raphael algol tira for RO. Guaranteed on these guys after deathcopter, try it. You can finish it with a guaranteed 3B and get into a nice oki situation too

 

[Signia]

^Thanks for the weird glitchy info lol. I barely have time to check it out this week so this is pretty cool shit.

Yeah it appears that when doing the same type of stun while the combo counter is still going (like in a tech trap chain), the stun will not occur the second time you do it. This is probably an infinite prevention mechanic, but it means that infinite tech trap chains are not possible.

4B, 3B+K, and deathcopter seem to have the same stun. Same with 22K and CH 2A+B.

 

[DOCTORSTUPID]

This isn't particularly relivent to the combos but canceling B into guard seems to actually work as a decent back dash, especially if you can mash it very fast, makes it so you don't get hit in the face when back stepping.
Two things to keep in mind if you try this:
(1) longer the B is out, the further you back step
(2) sooner you canel B into guard the sooner you can attack off a whiff

I already have a method for getting CH, but I was wondering, how do other Yoshimitsu players fish for whiffs?

As for an ender, I've gotten used to just doing 66A+B, it's the most consistent option and it's simple enough to get even in really horrible lag, but if its close enough to I just do DNK.