Yun Match-Ups

He's at disadvantage, since his punishment is shit (Whereas Cervy's isn't), and he has a lower damage output overall. Yun doesn't have anything over Cervy, except for CR and an actual CF game.
 
VS
Algol -
Amy -
Astaroth -
Cassandra -
Cervy - 3:7 (listed as 4:6 atm)
Hilde - 3:7
Kilik - 4:6
Maxi - 5:5
Sieg - 5:5
X - 4:6
Yoshi - 4:6
 
Dunno about Algol (But Yun's got a disadvantage when it comes to range), but Amy and Asty aren't fun, and Cassie's definitely a bitch if she can punish. I'm a negative nancy, so I'd put them all at 4:6 at the least for Yun; but even going beyond personal experiences and bias, I'd say Cassie's 7:3 against Yun, becuase any fuckup on his part = 30-60 damage for Cassie, while she can abuse unsafe shit without risking her pretty little white-girl ass (236: is -16? Haha, that's practically safe against Yun).
 
Cass AA - i13, 30 damage. Yun AA - i14, 20 damage. Yea.....

I think what makes or breaks Yun matchups is how badly he can punished and whether he can space.

AS B is i15. AS [ B ] is i16. AS B hurts but it's not as bad as AS [ B ]. Blocking either nets you a BB. The former is 2BK punishable if you can react to the difference. Notable 236[ B ] punishable moves: 1A, 66A, 1B, 44B. 236[ B ] = 64 damage. It's possible to outspace her. Careful with 44A use though. It's AA punishable. I think spacing and a better WS/FC game save Yun from suffering in this matchup. Still in Cass' favor of course.
 
In other words, it's a real pain in the ass for Yun, compared to Cassie. It's often an uphill battle if your opponent's savvy, which is what makes Yun low tier. Bah, this'd be easier to do if people actually gave a shit about Yun, since a lot of people don't know him well, and very few people use him competitively.
 
I surely don't consider myself to be very skilled with Yun, but i suppose it wouldn't hurt taking part in this discussion.

Sometimes i find it a bit difficult to face against Asta or NM with Yun. Their great grab range usually hurts my CR game and the worst is that they can keep spamming attacks (usually safe) that cannot be auto-evaded. Dunno, perhaps i tend to rely heavily in Yun's CR against those characters, instead of playing a different and perhaps most less-risky strategy.
The way i see it right now, the best case for Yun seems to be something like that:
YunvsNM 4:6
YunvsAsta 4:6
(but something tells me that these may also be 3:7 for some people)
 
mikosu said:
VS
Hilde - 3:7
Kilik - 4:6
X - 4:6
Click to expand...

vs Hilde
I don't see such a big adv here. She can't get predictable with her 6B and B keepout cuz of CR, and Yun has rangey tools that track (6B and 9B+K) 6-4 in hilde's favor is enough i think.

vs Kilik
Yun has advantage here. His kicks are all great, an i12 K, 4K, 3K, 8K etc shut down AD (8K may give air combo). 22K, 6B and 9B+K can all be applied effectively vs Kilik. 9B+K especially, thwarts WS B zoning and 2A. And does a number on the gauge and give combos too. Kilik also doesn't have an effective way to stop CR from what i can see. He also seems unable to punish CR A+K well unless i'm mistaken. I see no reason why Kilik has adv here only positives for yun imo. Either 5-5 or 6-4 in Yun's favor.

vs X
One of Yun's worst matchups. 3-7 in her favor. He simply can't use CR mixups vs her easily at all (due to 1B+K etc). Which is not the main reason for why it's bad for him. She basically outspeeds/evades him in almost every situation. Yun is hardly EVER at good hs, being neutral vs X becomes an uphill struggle cuz of her speed, having to use strong gambles to thwart her various options and do solid damage. He also has a tendency to be punished by her AA or more a lot for some of his better antistep tools.
 
ditt0: No no no no no! Do NOT use CR a lot against Asta. The average Asta rarely uses the moves up close that the evade works on. iirc Asta doesn't have a 100% way to shut CR down after a blocked transition. Most common is 6[ B ]. If they don't have a regular 3K type move then there's room for mindgames. Haven't played the other characters enough to comment.

Played an Algol last night. Bubble shield is really effective vs Yun. Even his 6B is outranged to where Algol is comfortable. More range, better mixups up close, safer, Al just does everything better except CF. Dealing with the bubbles is hard since Yun has no obvious answer for them. Dullyanna mentioned 22_88B as anti-bubble. If you guess wrong and Al blocks you can be punished (duh it's Yun). It comes down to the Yun's patience, GI-ing, and spacing. I say 3:7. Only saving grace may be Al's horrid sidestep forces him to endure CR shenanigans.
 
6B and 9B+K are linear weapon based mids. Hilde has a fun time when a character's spacing relies on those. Yes she can't aGI 6B, but she can step it with relative ease. Furthermore, entering CR is a huge risk for Yun, since it takes one wrong guess or assumption for him to eat a charge A.

Edit: I second what Mikosu said entirely.
 
hotnikkelz said:
vs Kilik
Yun has advantage here. His kicks are all great, an i12 K, 4K, 3K, 8K etc shut down AD (8K may give air combo). 22K, 6B and 9B+K can all be applied effectively vs Kilik. 9B+K especially, thwarts WS B zoning and 2A. And does a number on the gauge and give combos too. Kilik also doesn't have an effective way to stop CR from what i can see. He also seems unable to punish CR A+K well unless i'm mistaken. I see no reason why Kilik has adv here only positives for yun imo. Either 5-5 or 6-4 in Yun's favor.

vs X
One of Yun's worst matchups. 3-7 in her favor. He simply can't use CR mixups vs her easily at all (due to 1B+K etc). Which is not the main reason for why it's bad for him. She basically outspeeds/evades him in almost every situation. Yun is hardly EVER at good hs, being neutral vs X becomes an uphill struggle cuz of her speed, having to use strong gambles to thwart her various options and do solid damage. He also has a tendency to be punished by her AA or more a lot for some of his better antistep tools.
Click to expand...
If yun goes into a empty-crane ..waiting to auto-evade the 1B+K ? That's not applicable ?
 
Dullyanna said:
6B and 9B+K are linear weapon based mids. Hilde has a fun time when a character's spacing relies on those. Yes she can't aGI 6B, but she can step it with relative ease. Furthermore, entering CR is a huge risk for Yun, since it takes one wrong guess or assumption for him to eat a charge A.

Edit: I second what Mikosu said entirely.
Click to expand...

I will repeat that 6B and 9B+K tracks at that range, and does it quite well. 6B tracks to Yun's right, 9B+K to his left iirc. I'm not understanding what you mean about stepping it with relative ease. Also these aren't the only moves he has at his disposal, these are the 2 i thought were worth mentioning right off the bat.

If Yun sticks with CR K:G he will be quite fine vs Charge A. Hilde is no exception. All that matters with the others is whether or not Yun gets blocked, or he hits the attack into CR. Also, he's not RELIANT on CR either.
 
No, 9B+K only covers Yun's right (Though it does do that very well). And Yun's definitely not reliant on CR, but his damage output is relatively mediocre (imho, it's about on par with Hilde on average). A knowledgeable Hilde player will step only to Yun's left. On the plus side, she generally can't punish Yun as well as other characters on block unless she gives up a charge. Also, Yun has plenty of kicks at his disposal, though they're relatively linear. If only Yun's 11K covered his left...

Edit: Forgot that his 2K tracks left. It's certainly better than nothing, lol.
 
Point is...it is not 7/3 vs Yun at all. I see no clear adv here. Hilde owns, but she's not 7/3 vs everyone. That's a bit of a stretch.
 
I think u underrate him a bit. His CF game is good, his 2 front throws can RO. His step is good. His range is good. His speed is good. He has a safe decent low (11A). His CR is well designed. Has GREAT TCs. Good post GI.
There's not much wrong with Yun unless there's something specific that you don't like about him.
 
I'll chime in on that by saying that the 3 biggest complaints I get about Yun are unsafety/negative frames everywhere, step 2G owning CR, and sucky punishment.

I can't say his unsafety is warranted but the negative frames may be. It's obvious Namdai knew the boy can CF so I think they did that so he can't keep pressure. Step 2G is definitely great anti-CR but if that's all they're gonna do then delay your moves a bit and he's back in the game. His AA doing 20 damage when compared to Cass' is nonsense but it's how it is. His punishment isn't really good til i16 but it's there so use it. No shame in KK to the face.

One fella said to me that Yun seemed unplayable based on his frame data. Let's work to prove the haters wrong!
 
Yeah his punishment is pretty bad at -14 and less i suppose. His unsafety isn't much of a problem for me though. When in CR vs Step G, use CR[A+B]. Which tracks both sides VERY well, Block 9 or so of these bad boys = cf. Oh it's safe too. I use this a lot vs those who think stepG -> duck is the answer to all problems. I do that and jumping over them with 4B+KG. CR [A+B] is love in general when they hesitate. CR really is well designed.

His 44B, 22K, and good step compensates for his weak hs (his biggest weakness imo). However you can put it this way. Anticipate the right attack afterward and u'll be rewarded. His TJs do serious damage 9B+K, 9B gives nice hs. Also his TCs do serious damage. 236KK, 1A(CH), 9K. His right side throw is very strong, and his post GI game is very strong. A+Bbbb is damn good post GI. Noone seems to block 2K afterward (although not combo) giving u a fair chunk of damage. B+K at disadvantage -2 and up will thwart all verticals netting u around 60 dmg. Yun gets his rewards.
 
This is the second time you mention how good 22K was, but I'd like to know why. It is slow and doesn't seem to evade much at all when I use it. I get hit out of the animation by verts all the time.
 
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