Z.W.E.I. General Discussion/Q&A

Some people placed Raph higher then Zwei (>*_*)
I'm currently working on the Raph and Zwei match-up and as a former Raph player, I have to admit that Raph has a bit of an advantage because of his 6BB, his speed and his spacing. Zwei's best move against him seems to be B+K right now. It interrupts Raph's SE and when Raph's at midrange, it usually works. Quick counter moves such as 6B,4B or safe pokes is all I have that works right now.
 
Well, I don't know anything about Raph, but I hear his bad match ups are comparable to Zwei's situation. Raph is meant to be a zoner or at the very least played with good spacing in mind if I'm not mistaken. Zwei loses to characters that can keep him out (Hilde), characters that force him to play honest (Pyrrha), and characters that can deal with his linearity (Ivy 214B lol). Raph can keep him out.

Zwei's strength (and maybe even the intention in his design) is being able to blow people up with big gambles. The problem is, most of the cast can also take big gambles and blow people up. They can even take small gambles and blow people up. Pyrrha B+K is SO safe for what it can do. Pyrrha 22K is also ridiculous. Zwei 66B+K is terrible in the light of these other moves as is 22K, which for some reason always gets mentioned as one of Zwei's best moves when it's unsafe to good AAs, doesn't TC, and gives around the same damage Pyrrha can get out of her ridiculous 22K.

Anyway, I gotta take off.

The only real reason to play Zwei is for your own satisfaction. He doesn't do enough for being so flawed.
 
Mr.MeatHook said:
I just hate it when a character that's so freaking unique ends up being a really bad character.
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from what people say, because i dont care enough for sc3 when i was younger, zasalamel was in the same situation. im not sure who said it but someone said Project Soul is bad at balancing new characters.
 
I know this is probably like round 9 of noobish questions, but what are the main go-to punishers? I've been using a+b and b+k, all though that's probably wrong...
 
Sigh... that tier list thread makes me so depressed. But yea, Lasercakes is right about the spacing issues Zwei has to face when he goes up against chars that can keep him out. Not to mention, Zwei's abit on the slow side so it's bad when Raph interrupts most of his moves and keeps him out. But against Raph, this is when his gambles win him big rewards. In terms of dmg, Raph is nowhere as good as Zwei in that department. It's the culmination of pokes and when your gauge goes red, that Zwei's in trouble. I have to keep working on that match-up. It's probably the only match-up I'm slightly confident in since I've played Raph since SCII-SCIV and alot in SCV until I gave up on him. (No... it's not because he's terrible and boring. It's because he's now kinda crazy. 236B AMYYYYY!)

All I can say is that I'm still waiting for a really really good zwei player to show up and demonstrate his potential. After all, Omega rep Zas in SCIII and SCIV. One can keep hoping... (>C_C)
*Amazing Zwei player come forth! Please....
 
darkwings13 said:
Sigh... that tier list thread makes me so depressed. But yea, Lasercakes is right about the spacing issues Zwei has to face when he goes up against chars that can keep him out. Not to mention, Zwei's abit on the slow side so it's bad when Raph interrupts most of his moves and keeps him out. But against Raph, this is when his gambles win him big rewards. In terms of dmg, Raph is nowhere as good as Zwei in that department. It's the culmination of pokes and when your gauge goes red, that Zwei's in trouble. I have to keep working on that match-up. It's probably the only match-up I'm slightly confident in since I've played Raph since SCII-SCIV and alot in SCV until I gave up on him. (No... it's not because he's terrible and boring. It's because he's now kinda crazy. 236B AMYYYYY!)

All I can say is that I'm still waiting for a really really good zwei player to show up and demonstrate his potential. After all, Omega rep Zas in SCIII and SCIV. One can keep hoping... (>C_C)
*Amazing Zwei player come forth! Please....
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why not you? hell if i had a car id be me but maybe you can represent
 
ZeroBeat said:
why not you? hell if i had a car id be me but maybe you can represent
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I just got my license last month (>^.^)
Anyway, I don't think I'm good enough yet. (And as a girl, I'm trying to work up the courage to go to a tourny where it's mostly men). There's one happening in Edmonton on Saturday and I'm in Calgary but I have work so I can't make it. It's such a lost opportunity as well since nothing really happens up here in Canada.
By the way, I'll add you on PSN for some mirror matches. Do you mind?
 
darkwings13 said:
I just got my license last month (>^.^)
Anyway, I don't think I'm good enough yet. (And as a girl, I'm trying to work up the courage to go to a tourny where it's mostly men). There's one happening in Edmonton on Saturday and I'm in Calgary but I have work so I can't make it. It's such a lost opportunity as well since nothing really happens up here in Canada.
By the way, I'll add you on PSN for some mirror matches. Do you mind?
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no anytime. i was doing matches with Zane earlier today and we seemed pretty even, but there were alot of disconnects so maybe it was lag.
 
ZeroBeat said:
no anytime. i was doing matches with Zane earlier today and we seemed pretty even, but there were alot of disconnects so maybe it was lag.
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Yay, I'll add you tonight or tomorrow when I'm done my uni hw. Haven't played in so long ever since school started. Hopefully, we won't disconnect lol. But the connection for PSN has been godly awful these days.
 
Mr.MeatHook said:
I know this is probably like round 9 of noobish questions, but what are the main go-to punishers? I've been using a+b and b+k, all though that's probably wrong...
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Well if you mean block punish you can pretty much forget everything about that. AA is basically your punisher unless your opponent throws out a -15 move or something.
 
Mr.MeatHook said:
I know this is probably like round 9 of noobish questions, but what are the main go-to punishers? I've been using a+b and b+k, all though that's probably wrong...
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In order of speed: K/AA, 2A/6B, BB/4KB, 4B BE, 3B/A+B.
A+B is slow, but it has range. 4KB and 4B BE can be used while FCed. 6B has more range than 2A.

3B, A+B, 66BA are your whiff punishes.

B+K isn't bad for catching people stepping in and attacking, but definitely not what I'd call a punishing attack.


Sometimes as Zwei it's more advantageous to take the mix-up rather than a lame BB punish. You can fish for damage with a throw mid, or see how they react to getting their gauge worked by 214B. A lot of the time someone will stand there and block it. So you get gauge damage and +4 advantage to work with for another mix-up.
 
Agreed with almost everything posted here.
However, just a reference to B+K.
This move is just ok at first sight. Though sometimes I'm amazed at how useful can be vs certain situations.
Raphael and Maxi seem to have some problems with their mixups because of this move.
 
Mr.MeatHook said:
I know this is probably like round 9 of noobish questions, but what are the main go-to punishers? I've been using a+b and b+k, all though that's probably wrong...
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From Standing:
-13~-14 = 2A/ K
-14 = AA/ 6B
-15~-16 = {B}/ BB/ 4KB
-17~-18 = 4B/ 4B BE
-18 = 4{A}
-19~-30 = 3B/ A+B
-23~-30 = 66BA/ 3A BE
-25~-30 = B+K/ CE
-31> = 66A+B

From Crouched:
-12~-14 = FC 2A
-14 = 6B
-15~-22 = 4KB/ WR K
-17~-22 = 4B/ 4B BE
-18~-22 = 4{A}
-21~-22 = WR A
-23~-30 = WR B/ 66BA
-31> = 66A+B

For Whiff Punishing:
(fast) = AA/ 4B
(mid) = 3B/ A+B
(slow) = 66BA/ 3A BE/ B+K
(omg slow) = 66A+B

Hey, my man, Bug!
 
Just mentioning that the ZWEI wiki has been completed.
There will be some double-testings here and there, but in case anything needs to be corrected/changed or any wrong data, please contact me If you like.
 
dittO said:
Just mentioning that the ZWEI wiki has been completed.
There will be some double-testings here and there, but in case anything needs to be corrected/changed or any wrong data, please contact me If you like.
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thx a lot good job!
 
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